Neoteny,
1. Did a random distribution of dust particles come together into a spheroid called earth and spawn organisms that could harness energy from sunlight?
2. Would that have involved an overall increase in order and decrease in entropy on earth?
3. What part of the Universe transferred useful energy to earth for to have occured if a part did and there's little to nothing on earth without chlorophyll that the sun does not break down?
4. What would geothermal energy or lightning have to do with energy being transferred to earth?
5. What does the sun not actually break down and decrease order in?
6. Not sure you if meant to refer to Primordial Soup Theory in a hey you're stupid sense or not maybe, but you mentioned it and then proceeded to refer to UV right after doing so perhaps. Who has a primordial soup theory that does not involve energy from the sun allowing order to increase on earth without chloropyll harnessing organisms on it?
7. Are you ultimately arguing that particles evolved into atoms and atoms into molecules and molecules into worlds and stars and galaxies and that inorganic compounds evolved into living materials and that living materials evolved into more and more complex plants and animals and finally into humans who can now intelligently control future evolution and arguing that all of that occured without there being an increase in order and decrease in entropy in the Universe?
8. Where's a beneficial mutation if in glucose none of the 26 mutations produced a significant fitness gain relative to the progenitor and the progenitor was raised in glucose?
9. I was not meaning to ask you what deletion heterozygote meant and came across wrong perhaps. Who knows what's actually an absence of an unbeneficial mutation? If someone was born with receptor for HIV-1 that was caused by a mutation and then they later had offspring that did not possess genetic information for the receptor, would that really be a mutation reversing a mutation?
10. This might seem like nonsense you, but what if man was created with receptors for certain strains of HIV-1 and yet there are angels who have produced offspring with humans and passed on certain traits like blue eyes and blonde hair and lack of certain receptors? What do you feel about the word nephilim?
11. You refer to a featherless dinosaur fossil and a flightless bird fossil and several bird of flight fossils and a mysterious image from a Spanish site containing one or more of the above and an image of a living bird? Is there a particular fossil you would like to discuss in detail?
12. How about consider these...
Did Birds Evolve from Dinosaurs?
Now, the textbooks are going to tell the kids, "Boys and girls, birds are the descendants of dinosaurs." How many have ever heard of that before? Wasn’t that the whole purpose behind the Jurassic Park movie? Now, just hold on a minute, in case you don’t know, there are a few differences between a dinosaur and a bird. You don’t just put a few feathers on him and say, "Let’s go man come on you can do it!" It’s not quite that easy folks. You see, reptiles have four perfectly good legs, birds have two legs and two wings. So if his front legs are going to change into wings (besides lots of other things having to change, like the muscular system, the nervous system to control this and the brain to control flight) besides all of that, somewhere along the line, his front legs are going to be half-leg half-wing. Which means now he can’t run and he can’t fly. This guy is going to have a problem evolving through that stage don’t you think? As a matter of fact, through all the stages he’s going to have a problem evolving.
Scales and Feathers
They tell the kids though, that birds are covered with feathers, (which is true) and they are going to say, "Boys and girls, bird feathers evolved from the same scales that protected the dinosaurs so well." Hold on a second. Feathers are extremely complex. The only similarity they have between feathers and scales is they are both made from the same protein. It is called Keratin. Your finger nails and your hair are made from the same stuff. That doesn’t prove that they are related. It proves they’ve got a common Designer. Did you know battleships and forks are both made out of the same metal? Iron. That proves that they both evolved from a tin can 27 million years ago. (Jump frog jump!) Man, you’re getting the wrong conclu-sions here folks! Similarity proves a common Designer.
Other Differences
There are real problems with the bird evolution from reptiles. The lungs are totally different. Reptiles have a sac type lung. Birds have a tubular type lung. Very different lung system. Modern birds are found in layers with and lower than the so-called dinosaurs. How can they be the ancestors? How can the dinosaurs change to birds? The birds were already there, even by their thinking, with their faulty geologic scale. Scales and feathers attach to the body differently and they come from different genes on the chromosome. Birds have a four chambered heart. Reptiles have a three chambered heart. Major change there, folks! How is that going to survive? In addition to just the heart changing, you have to get the nerve supply changing. And the DNA code changing so the next generation has this heart change. It doesn’t work.
Reptiles lay a leathery egg. Birds have a hard-shelled egg. There are thousands of differences between reptiles and birds. There is no evidence. And the experts know that.
Even W.E. Swinton from the British Museum of Natural History, the largest fossil collection in the world. He said, "there is no fossil evidence of the stages through which the remarkable change from reptile to bird was achieved." Now, he believes that happened, but he knows that there is no fossil evidence. But the textbooks tell the kids that there is.
Archaeopteryx
They show the picture of Archaeopteryx and say, "Boys and girls, this is Archaeopteryx." (Wow—big word, write that down. It will be on the test!) Archaeopteryx. It means "ancient wing." They are going to say, "Boys and girls, this used to be a dinosaur. This is the missing link." It’s a bird, teacher. It’s twelve inches long. Come on! It’s the size of a pigeon. Only six have been found. Some people think they are all fakes. I don’t know. Even if they are legitimate though it’s just a bird. It’s 100% bird! The size of a crow.
Claws and Teeth
They are going to say, "Well, now, he’s got claws on his wings. Do you see those claws right there? Don’t you see? That proves he used to be a dinosaur." Come on now, teacher. Twelve birds today have claws on their wings. The ostrich, the hoatzin, the touraco, the ibis. I can’t name them all but there are twelve birds that have claws on the wings right now! By the way, going from claws to no claws would be an example of losing something, not gaining something. Is that how evolution works? You lose everything until you have it all? I don’t get it.
Well, they are going to say, "Well, he’s got teeth in his beak! See those teeth right there? That proves he used to be a dinosaur!" Well, now, hold on just a minute, some birds have teeth, most don’t. Some reptiles have teeth some don’t. Some fish have teeth, some don’t. Some of you have teeth. Some don’t. That doesn’t prove you used to be a dinosaur. And again, going from teeth to no teeth is losing, not gaining! That’s the opposite of what we need!
Evolving a Loss?
They told me when I went to school, "Man used to have a tail but he lost it because he didn’t need it." I thought, didn’t need it?! Have you ever thought how handy a tail would be? Have you ever come to the door with two sacks of groceries? That would be nice man. Grab that door, open it right up, and swing it around, walk right in there! Have you ever been driving down the highway and wished you had something to hold that can of Coke or tune that radio knob? It would be tougher to put your britches on, I understand all that. Somebody could figure that out, you know, put another zipper or something. I don’t know, they’d figure it out. But what do you mean lost it because we didn’t need it? That’s propaganda! These experts know that there is no evidence for any changing! They say there is fossil evidence and there isn’t!
Warm-blooded vs. cold-blooded
Seemingly forgotten in all the claims that birds are essentially dinosaurs (or at least that they evolved from dinosaurs) is the fact that dinosaurs are reptiles. There are many differences between birds and reptiles, including the fact that (with precious few exceptions) living reptiles are cold-blooded creatures, while birds and mammals are warm-blooded. Indeed, even compared to most mammals, birds have exceptionally high body temperatures resulting from a high metabolic rate.
The difference between cold- and warm-blooded animals isn’t simply in the relative temperature of the blood but rather in their ability to maintain a constant body core temperature. Thus, warm-blooded animals such as birds and mammals have internal physiological mechanisms to maintain an essentially constant body temperature; they are more properly called “endothermic.” In contrast, reptiles have a varying body temperature influenced by their surrounding environment and are called “ectothermic.” An ectothermic animal can adjust its body temperature behaviorally (e.g., moving between shade and sun), even achieving higher body temperature than a so-called warm-blooded animal, but this is done by outside factors.
In an effort to make the evolution of dinosaurs into birds seem more plausible, some evolutionists have argued that dinosaurs were also endothermic,1 but there is no clear evidence for this.2
One of the lines of evidence for endothermic dinosaurs is based on the microscopic structure of dinosaur bones. Fossil dinosaur bones have been found containing special microscopic structures called osteons (or Haversian systems). Osteons are complex concentric layers of bone surrounding blood vessels in areas where the bone is dense. This arrangement is assumed by some to be unique to endothermic animals and thus evidence that dinosaurs are endothermic, but such is not the case. Larger vertebrates (whether reptiles, birds, or mammals) may also have this type of bone. Even tuna fish have osteonal bone in their vertebral arches.
Another argument for endothermy in dinosaurs is based on the eggs and assumed brood behavior of dinosaurs, but this speculation too has been challenged.3 There is in fact no theropod brooding behavior not known to occur in crocodiles and other cold-blooded living reptiles.
Alan Feduccia, an expert on birds and their evolution, has concluded that “there has never been, nor is there now, any evidence that dinosaurs were endothermic.”4 Feduccia says that despite the lack of evidence “many authors have tried to make specimens conform to the hot-blooded theropod dogma.”
13. I posted a quote having to do with the second law of thermodynamics that says all known cases of decreased entropy (or increased organization) in open systems involve a guiding program of some sort and one or more energy conversion mechanisms or that says at least something like that and you referred to natural selection as a guiding mechanism for evolution in response maybe. Was there a guiding program of some sort that helped lead to a replicating system coming into existance from a non-replicating system?
14. You refer to four or more wikipedia sites that have to do with genetics and genetics can be used as evidence for a common designer or common ancestry?
15. Want to discuss so called transitional fossils? What have Darwin and Stephen Gould and Colin Patterson had to say?
NG leads readers to believe that Darwin thought the fossil record supported his theory. But actually he admitted more than once in his famous book6 that the fossil record is an embarrassment to his theory of descent from a common ancestor. He knew that if his theory was true, there should be countless numbers of transitional forms (e.g., 100% reptile, 75% reptile-25% bird, 50% reptile-50%bird, 25% reptile-75%bird, 100% bird and many transitional forms between each of those). Darwin attributed the lack of evidence to our ignorance of the fossil record. But today our museums are loaded with fossils and the missing links are still missing.
As the late Harvard evolutionary geologist, Stephen Gould, put it:
The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils.7
In a 1979 letter responding to the late creationist, Luther Sunderland, Colin Patterson, then Senior Palaeontologist at the British Museum of Natural History in London, concurred:
I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be used to visualize such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic license, would that not mislead the reader? ... You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived.” I will lay it on the line — there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.8
Richard Dawkins’ evolutionist disciple at Oxford University, Mark Ridley, is emphatic:
However, the gradual change of fossil species has never been part of the evidence for evolution. In the chapters on the fossil record in the Origin of Species Darwin showed that the record was useless for testing between evolution and special creation because it has great gaps in it. The same argument still applies. ... In any case, no real evolutionist, whether gradualist or punctuationist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of the theory of evolution as opposed to special creation.9 [emphasis in the original]
Should there not be literally billions of fossils of creatures in a transition between fish and land dwelling tetrapods if universal common descent is true? Is there any reason to assume that Panderichthys or Tiktaalik were anything other than aquatic and what has actually been found of Tulerpeton? Skull fragments, small belly scutes, an incomplete pectoral girdle, an incomplete forelimb and an incomplete hindlimb? It's simply a variety of alligator or crocodile maybe. And were remains of it not recovered from the Tula Region of Russia? It's ironically evidence for a preflood earth with above freezing temperatures across the planet perhaps.
16. Can comparitive anatomy not be used as evidence for a common designer?
17. What's truly a vestigial organ?
18. What do Australia or island biogeography have to do with whether or not ants share common ancestory with whales?
19. What does adaptive radiation have to do with whether or not ants share common ancestory with whales? Would seeing different breeds of dogs or a variety of finches and then jumping to a conclusion that snakes and bananas share common ancestry as a result not be taking a leap of faith and logic?
20. Want to discuss cytochrome-c?
http://www.scienceagainstevolution.org/v7i10f.htm 21. What does antibiotic resistance have to do with macroevolution or even evolution in general? Can a single individual not build up resistance to antibiotics in a couple of months?
22. What does the apple maggot have to do with whether or not ants share common ancestory with whales?
23. What does the peppered moth have to do with whether or not ants share common ancestory with whales? CTRL-F search the word moth here maybe...
http://www.arrivalofthefittest.com/seminar4.html 24. You say just having a universe that has always existed and mean a universe as in a universe without Him? Truth is truth regardless of whether or not we see anything as better than anything else perhaps. What suggests it's more likely He exists than does not exist? More than I will ever know maybe, but there's one or more post on page 20 that refers to some examples of things that are evidence for Him perhaps.
25. If scripture suggests He created certain kinds of creatures with an ability to bring forth after their kinds then is there any reason why we should believe that IS the case? There's a number of things I can get into including fulfilled prophecy found in scripture perhaps, but what suggests there were not certain kinds of creatures created that bring forth variety after their kinds?
26. We can't get a horse and a zebra to have offspring naturally?
http://creation.com/zebra-or-horse-a-zorse-of-course 27. Do you claim that kinds can bring forth other kinds as well and that kinds have come forth from other kinds? If so, can you define kinds? If a kind is simply defined as an original created creature that can't naturally bring forth offspring with creatures of a different kind, then would that not be an illogical claim?
28. Do you claim there's precambrian sedimentary rock that's been radiometrically dated?
29. What would it say to me if you found an online resource that lined up 11,000 years of trees? Well I would look for evidence that seperate disturbances had been lined up in error and try to figure out how many missing rings had been inferred and what it said to me would come down to what I saw maybe, but what would finding even a single tree with 11,000 rings say if He has created full grown trees out of non-living material?
30. I'm not claiming there's been a stegosaurus with external ears, but who knows if there are modern and mainstream anatomical ideas regarding the Stegosaurus that are exactly right with no room for variation? Would it not make sense if there have been thousands of different breeds of stegosaurus? You will find some enlightening stuff below the words THE STEGOSAURUS OF CAMBODIA here perhaps...
https://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3626 31. How many 9 plus foot skeletons were discovered in the 19th century and where can we see one now?
http://www.stangrist.com/giants.htm 32. A giraffe? You refer to a Mesopotamian cylinder seal and here's an image we can compare with perhaps....
33. Did Marco Polo not write about living dinosaurs in The Travels of Marco Polo? Did he not suggest there were people hunting dinosaurs over 50 feet in length less than 1,000 years ago in it?
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3806 Did he not even claim a Chinese Emperor had a number of dragons which were used to pull his chariots in parades? Did Josephus not write about flying serpents in the Antiquities of the Jews? Did Herodotus not write of winged serpents over two thousand years ago? Does the Aberdeen Bestiary not clearly refer to one or more dinosaur? Is there not a city in France called Nerluc that was renamed in honor of a dragon with a horned head being killed there? Are dragons not mentioned as very rare but still living creatures in a 16th century four-volume encyclopedia entitled Historiae Animalium?
http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/history/history.htm 34. How is depth of earth used to date sedimentary rock in a more than this is older than that sense if it is somehow?
35. If we come across multiple layers of sedimentary rock and we did not see them form, then who knows if they were deposited from flood waters or not?
36. Does the Colorado River delta contain 1,300,000 cubic miles of sediment now? Did you not suggest it contained about 10,000 cubic miles of sediment earlier?
37. How many human fossil skeletons have been found in general? Maybe there have always been way more non-humans than humans on earth and humans would be better able to avoid being buried alive than most. Is there really any fossil in sedimentary rock that's not the result a flood? Do you have any comment on this?
38. There's a geological explanation for everything geological maybe. How about we compare theories?
39. What does jointing have to do with Barringer Crater? An impact from something iron caused it perhaps. Who knows if an impact from a natural meteorite did or not?
40. You say we have no evidence to show that it was all deposited at once, and therefore, all wet? What do you mean by it, if so? Do we have evidence that whatever it is was not deposited with from a single flood? Maybe we shouldn't assume any river was cut through sedimentary rock or wet sediment.
41. Do you theorize that there's been enough flooding water to have stretched all the way from Echo Cliffs to Vermilion Cliffs? They are sides of a main canyon seen here perhaps...
42. And see barbed canyons there? What are they from if so? When do tributaries enter rivers at obtuse angles?
Top right section here that can help us put those in perspective perhaps...
Juan_Bottom,
Where did you read that Marble Canyon or Echo Cliffs or Vermilion Cliffs had lowest layers made of granite if you read that they did somewhere?
Jones,
Dinosaurs have lived since the flood and I've referred to little to no image showing preflood art depicting dinosaurs maybe. You might want to check out s8int.com and look for a section having to do with dinosaurs in art.
What have I not understood and ignored as a result? And do you say troll and mean a person who sends duplicitous messages hoping to get angry responses?
See blue lines below? What's truly random?
NOTE: I've come across formatting issues and there are misquotes in here and one or more quote that's missing one or more image and one or more quote that's missing one or more hyperlink and there are numbers that should appear differently and there are images containing words that are not my own in here depending on definition at least and it's now 2010 and not 2009 and I've said stuff wrong perhaps. Quote sources below maybe...
http://www.arrivalofthefittest.com/seminar4.htmlhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... into-birdshttp://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/1106ng.asp
