Conquer Club

suggs wrote:well, its the cvil bit of getting married that is legally significant, so i guess we should make gay marriage legal, and then leave it to the individual priests.

It seems reasonable to me, but look at abortion. You'd think people would be fine with letting others make the moral decision of having one, but many people feel that it's their job.

Frigidus wrote:

suggs wrote:well, its the cvil bit of getting married that is legally significant, so i guess we should make gay marriage legal, and then leave it to the individual priests.

It seems reasonable to me, but look at abortion. You'd think people would be fine with letting others make the moral decision of having one, but many people feel that it's their job.

Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care), this isn't grounds for prohibiting it.
Abortion actually kills a child : the woman does have a right to choose to get rid of a "clump of cells" in her wonb. However, the child, has a right to live...
A conflict. The child's right tolive takes precedence....

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

*sigh* fair enough.

In my opinion, no one has the right to life.

See, what most people cannot comprehend, is that within this infinitly vast, cosmologically "against all odds" universe, rocks began to talk, then multiply like the fungus we are. We are nothing, we live to reproduce, there is no meaning, no great fate, no fantastic destination.

The only reason we are able to life, and think up these philisophical reasons as to "why we are here"..."what is the meaning"..."should homo's be allowed to marry"..."who Nicked my fucking beer"...is because within our overdeveloped meat bags on our shoulders, we have developed a self-graciating attitude, as a part of the survival instinct of any creature...if we didnt have this delusional self-worth developed, the human race would die out, and it is against the nature of any life form to want to die.

So, as we all sit round, stroking our cocks, and get stressed out about inane bollox that doesnt really have the substance of my most recent shit, we can all thank our meaningless, pitiful luck that we somehow occupy a flukey little rock going nowhere other than to the end of life that was so pointlessly given to you all.

I am the exception, of course.

Symmetry wrote:A quick defense of Beastly so far- he's not trolled, or attacked anyone. He's openly said that he sees both sides, and that while he falls on one, he's open to ideas and isn't committed. He's presented a Christian view, held by a great many people, but hasn't claimed it to be perfect.

If you'd really like to have a debate on Christian values, perhap tarring (or marring if you're rambos poodle), a person with a certain colour from the offset isn't the best policy.

Give the guy a chance. He's not an idiot, he's a guy making up his mind. There are few people better than those in the midst of a decision. Don't all shout at once.

my wife at no point attacked beastly she ask her a question on her views on a topic as a christen ,we both happen to respect the lady very much even if we do not hold her views ,

Norse wrote:In my opinion, no one has the right to life.

See, what most people cannot comprehend, is that within this infinitly vast, cosmologically "against all odds" universe, rocks began to talk, then multiply like the fungus we are. We are nothing, we live to reproduce, there is no meaning, no great fate, no fantastic destination.

The only reason we are able to life, and think up these philisophical reasons as to "why we are here"..."what is the meaning"..."should homo's be allowed to marry"..."who Nicked my fucking beer"...is because within our overdeveloped meat bags on our shoulders, we have developed a self-graciating attitude, as a part of the survival instinct of any creature...if we didnt have this delusional self-worth developed, the human race would die out, and it is against the nature of any life form to want to die.

So, as we all sit round, stroking our cocks, and get stressed out about inane bollox that doesnt really have the substance of my most recent shit, we can all thank our meaningless, pitiful luck that we somehow occupy a flukey little rock going nowhere other than to the end of life that was so pointlessly given to you all.

I am the exception, of course.

While true, that only encourages us to push our selfish interests all the more. After all, there's no meaning so enjoy the ride. In my opinion we're as important as we make ourselves to be. Maybe we have no universal impact, but who cares? Caring about whether or not we're important is one of the main driving forces of religion, philosophy, and all sorts of things that frankly don't pertain to us in anything but an abstract sense. Call me self-centered, but I don't really think the rest of the universe is all that important. Aside from (possibly) a few other planets capable of supporting life, it's all just a bunch of drifting rubble. Hardly worth my time.

I think you echo my exact feelings on the matter.

But let's say, hypothetically, that one enjoys fire-bombing retirement homes, and pissing in the water tank...how would this fit in with your meaningless, self-sacrificial idealogy?

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

You're beginning to sound suspiciously like Jay.

Norse wrote:I think you echo my exact feelings on the matter.

But let's say, hypothetically, that one enjoys fire-bombing retirement homes, and pissing in the water tank...how would this fit in with your meaningless, self-sacrificial idealogy?

It would probably be in my best interest to get that guy under control, lest he switch from retirement homes to my home. Heck, I think that it's in pretty much everyones interest to do something about it. Probably in his best interest to avoid that kind of hobby unless he enjoys prison too.

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

You're beginning to sound suspiciously like Jay.

Hmmm. Bizarre isn't it what heroin has done to your perceptive ability hey snorri?

Frigidus wrote:

Norse wrote:I think you echo my exact feelings on the matter.

But let's say, hypothetically, that one enjoys fire-bombing retirement homes, and pissing in the water tank...how would this fit in with your meaningless, self-sacrificial idealogy?

It would probably be in my best interest to get that guy under control, lest he switch from retirement homes to my home. Heck, I think that it's in pretty much everyones interest to do something about it. Probably in his best interest to avoid that kind of hobby unless he enjoys prison too.

What if, though, a fook load of people just though"bah...sounds like fun, norse was right, life is pointless, lets have some fun" and then 20 thousand people went on a berserker rampage...there is not alot that the law could do to enforce itself....wouldnt you think of joining in?...I mean, who doesnt like a bit of good old fashioned fun?

Norse wrote:

Frigidus wrote:

Norse wrote:I think you echo my exact feelings on the matter.

But let's say, hypothetically, that one enjoys fire-bombing retirement homes, and pissing in the water tank...how would this fit in with your meaningless, self-sacrificial idealogy?

It would probably be in my best interest to get that guy under control, lest he switch from retirement homes to my home. Heck, I think that it's in pretty much everyones interest to do something about it. Probably in his best interest to avoid that kind of hobby unless he enjoys prison too.

What if, though, a fook load of people just though"bah...sounds like fun, norse was right, life is pointless, lets have some fun" and then 20 thousand people went on a berserker rampage...there is not alot that the law could do to enforce itself....wouldnt you think of joining in?...I mean, who doesnt like a bit of good old fashioned fun?

Heheh, as tempting as random violence is, taking my view of the universe to the point where I do random crap because of it isn't my thing. There are already plenty of people doing that.

Edited because of bad grammar on my part.

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

You're beginning to sound suspiciously like Jay.

Hmmm. Bizarre isn't it what heroin has done to your perceptive ability hey snorri?

Yay for ad hominem attacks!
Don't you realise the irony in saying all the studies are biased but yours aren't really? Objectively? That just sounds like we'd call any study disagreeing with us biased. I mean, we do, but you're making it sound like they aren't.

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

You're beginning to sound suspiciously like Jay.

Hmmm. Bizarre isn't it what heroin has done to your perceptive ability hey snorri?

Yay for ad hominem attacks!
Don't you realise the irony in saying all the studies are biased but yours aren't really? Objectively? That just sounds like we'd call any study disagreeing with us biased. I mean, we do, but you're making it sound like they aren't.

Studies? When was the last time he used evidence?

unriggable wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:Society is indirectly harmed by gay unions (they can call them what they want, marriage, civil, whatever, I don't care)

I know I'm feeding the trolls here but I have to do this: For Jesus's sake, can you please provide any non-biased evidence for this?

Whatever isn't financed by some LGBT lobby is biased Christian bigotry, so objectively, yes, but not for you.

You're beginning to sound suspiciously like Jay.

Hmmm. Bizarre isn't it what heroin has done to your perceptive ability hey snorri?

Yay for ad hominem attacks!
Don't you realise the irony in saying all the studies are biased but yours aren't really? Objectively? That just sounds like we'd call any study disagreeing with us biased. I mean, we do, but you're making it sound like they aren't.

Studies? When was the last time he used evidence?

Four pages back or something. Quoting the works of a very, very religious christian who was working for that one thing all the religous right wing nuts support.

Snorri1234 wrote:that one thing all the religous right wing nuts support.

Access to sex with female acolytes and all the opium you can smoke?
Full and total control over a congregation that can number in the hundreds of thousands?
Exorcisms in hospitals to cure the sick?

Fieryo wrote:

While the Christian community has every right to deny gays recgonition, the US government does not. Since marriage is regulated by the government (marriage licenses and what not) marriage must be available to gay couples. If the Church choses to not allow a ceremony in inside its walls, so be it. But you cannot deny people rights.

R. Poodle, I don't know about What churches believe about Transsexuals and such. heck I don't even go to church. I just read my bible. I see both sides of the issue. It's very hard to make a choice, because I don't think I should even be making it in the first place. And so, who else should be making a decision that is nobody's business in the first place.

IT's just if it is not good for society like the 10 issues I found, then I surely don't want those things to happen in my Society.

What Fieryo says here makes the most sense to me, I also, understand where The chosen one said that Christians or Believers in the bible have different understanding or interpretation of scripture.

so ok.... I am totally confused! lol... what's new?

I have to tell you, though, I had made friends with this gay gal, and I loved her as a friend. And her girlfriend was jealous of me, accused me of being gay, and wouldn't let her be friends with me. I had some friends over to watch movies one day, and I invited the both of them, and they were kissing in front of my other friends and my children, and it made me very uncomfortable. I didn't want my kids seeing that. I don't know why, if I have been conditioned in someway. But it wasn't just disturbing for me, it was also disturbing to my other company. If it would have been my other friends who were straight and kissing, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

So what is that all about? I don't get it. Does that make me a bigot?

Beastly wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

While the Christian community has every right to deny gays recgonition, the US government does not. Since marriage is regulated by the government (marriage licenses and what not) marriage must be available to gay couples. If the Church choses to not allow a ceremony in inside its walls, so be it. But you cannot deny people rights.

R. Poodle, I don't know about What churches believe about Transsexuals and such. heck I don't even go to church. I just read my bible. I see both sides of the issue. It's very hard to make a choice, because I don't think I should even be making it in the first place. And so, who else should be making a decision that is nobody's business in the first place.

IT's just if it is not good for society like the 10 issues I found, then I surely don't want those things to happen in my Society.

What Fieryo says here makes the most sense to me, I also, understand where The chosen one said that Christians or Believers in the bible have different understanding or interpretation of scripture.

so ok.... I am totally confused! lol... what's new?

I have to tell you, though, I had made friends with this gay gal, and I loved her as a friend. And her girlfriend was jealous of me, accused me of being gay, and wouldn't let her be friends with me. I had some friends over to watch movies one day, and I invited the both of them, and they were kissing in front of my other friends and my children, and it made me very uncomfortable. I didn't want my kids seeing that. I don't know why, if I have been conditioned in someway. But it wasn't just disturbing for me, it was also disturbing to my other company. If it would have been my other friends who were straight and kissing, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

So what is that all about? I don't get it. Does that make me a bigot?

The fact that you've noticed that the feeling is one-sided and feel uncomfortable about your discomfort is pretty reassuring to those of us who worry about people in that situation.

That was probably the worst sentence I've ever written as far as structure and diction. Moving on...

I'm not Nappy so I won't claim to be able to psychoanalyze you (but will proceed to do so anyway, because I'm like that), and I don't intend this offensively, but the fact that something like that bothers you that much is indicative that your dislike for homosexuality runs a lot deeper than a superficial "God says it's a sin" or some bilge about it being a disorder. I'd presume it had to do with the way you were raised to a large extent; with the impression that homosexuality is bad being much more ingrained. Things of that nature tend to elicit a response like "I don't know why I feel the way I do." I suppose you just need to decide if you want to get over that feeling. If you do, it is possible to work through it (having a homosexual friend to talk to would undoubtedly help, though if her girlfriend is being a bitch [a trait not just reserved for heterosexuals, or females, as I realize my previous statement might imply] you might have to work at that). If you don't, well, you just keep on keeping on, I suppose. So, long story short, you aren't a bigot until you start trying to deny them basic rights or call them autistic or something like that.

Neoteny wrote:

Beastly wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

While the Christian community has every right to deny gays recgonition, the US government does not. Since marriage is regulated by the government (marriage licenses and what not) marriage must be available to gay couples. If the Church choses to not allow a ceremony in inside its walls, so be it. But you cannot deny people rights.

R. Poodle, I don't know about What churches believe about Transsexuals and such. heck I don't even go to church. I just read my bible. I see both sides of the issue. It's very hard to make a choice, because I don't think I should even be making it in the first place. And so, who else should be making a decision that is nobody's business in the first place.

IT's just if it is not good for society like the 10 issues I found, then I surely don't want those things to happen in my Society.

What Fieryo says here makes the most sense to me, I also, understand where The chosen one said that Christians or Believers in the bible have different understanding or interpretation of scripture.

so ok.... I am totally confused! lol... what's new?

I have to tell you, though, I had made friends with this gay gal, and I loved her as a friend. And her girlfriend was jealous of me, accused me of being gay, and wouldn't let her be friends with me. I had some friends over to watch movies one day, and I invited the both of them, and they were kissing in front of my other friends and my children, and it made me very uncomfortable. I didn't want my kids seeing that. I don't know why, if I have been conditioned in someway. But it wasn't just disturbing for me, it was also disturbing to my other company. If it would have been my other friends who were straight and kissing, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

So what is that all about? I don't get it. Does that make me a bigot?

The fact that you've noticed that the feeling is one-sided and feel uncomfortable about your discomfort is pretty reassuring to those of us who worry about people in that situation.

That was probably the worst sentence I've ever written as far as structure and diction. Moving on...

I'm not Nappy so I won't claim to be able to psychoanalyze you (but will proceed to do so anyway, because I'm like that), and I don't intend this offensively, but the fact that something like that bothers you that much is indicative that your dislike for homosexuality runs a lot deeper than a superficial "God says it's a sin" or some bilge about it being a disorder. I'd presume it had to do with the way you were raised to a large extent; with the impression that homosexuality is bad being much more ingrained. Things of that nature tend to elicit a response like "I don't know why I feel the way I do." I suppose you just need to decide if you want to get over that feeling. If you do, it is possible to work through it (having a homosexual friend to talk to would undoubtedly help, though if her girlfriend is being a bitch [a trait not just reserved for heterosexuals, or females, as I realize my previous statement might imply] you might have to work at that). If you don't, well, you just keep on keeping on, I suppose. So, long story short, you aren't a bigot until you start trying to deny them basic rights or call them autistic or something like that.

This is a tough one for me to call on...I can understand fully why you wouldn't want your kids to see that, but I also can't say why I understand. Then again I wouldn't want my (as of yet non-existent) kids to see straight friends of mine making out during a movie...I suppose that I'll have to agree with Neotony, it shouldn't matter whether or not you want to see it, just whether or not you want to stop it. I guess I'll have to reflect on this later.

I think my kids will understand making out and whatnot, I think it wouldn't hurt for them to know about it early, but I think it's a matter of respect when you're over at someone else's house, whether you are gay or straight, to not suck face in front of people. At your own place it's one thing (still mildly rude, in my opinion), but when you're a guest, you can't be sure of your hosts opinions on that kind of thing. Best to just let it alone.

Beastly wrote:

Fieryo wrote:

While the Christian community has every right to deny gays recgonition, the US government does not. Since marriage is regulated by the government (marriage licenses and what not) marriage must be available to gay couples. If the Church choses to not allow a ceremony in inside its walls, so be it. But you cannot deny people rights.

R. Poodle, I don't know about What churches believe about Transsexuals and such. heck I don't even go to church. I just read my bible. I see both sides of the issue. It's very hard to make a choice, because I don't think I should even be making it in the first place. And so, who else should be making a decision that is nobody's business in the first place.

IT's just if it is not good for society like the 10 issues I found, then I surely don't want those things to happen in my Society.

What Fieryo says here makes the most sense to me, I also, understand where The chosen one said that Christians or Believers in the bible have different understanding or interpretation of scripture.

so ok.... I am totally confused! lol... what's new?

I have to tell you, though, I had made friends with this gay gal, and I loved her as a friend. And her girlfriend was jealous of me, accused me of being gay, and wouldn't let her be friends with me. I had some friends over to watch movies one day, and I invited the both of them, and they were kissing in front of my other friends and my children, and it made me very uncomfortable. I didn't want my kids seeing that. I don't know why, if I have been conditioned in someway. But it wasn't just disturbing for me, it was also disturbing to my other company. If it would have been my other friends who were straight and kissing, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

So what is that all about? I don't get it. Does that make me a bigot?

Haven't posted on this thread in awhile but have been watching with interest.......in answer to your question Beastly, in my personal opinion, that uncomfortableness does not make you a bigot. I suspect it just means you were exposed to something you are not accustomed to seeing. And quite frankly, I am revolted by the thoughts of engaging in heterosexual sex....that does NOT make me a bigot either. It just means that for whatever reasons (I have my own ideas about it), it is not something I would ever willingly engage in. The fact that you were visually exposed to a behavior you would not engage in is, I suspect, the root of your uncomfortableness...
not bigotry. That happens to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons...
A person who has differences in depth and/or motion perceptions will probably be very uncomfortable watching a tight rope walker and would not willing choose to cross a drawbridge across a deep chasm. It's the difference in how one's brain is wired to perceive the world around them.
I do admire your thoughtfulness, willingness to see both sides and encourage you to continue to question.

Neotony your avatar is freaking me out. Every time I see it I think of Jay but your positions are obviously 180 degrees different from his. It's really creepy.

bradleybadly wrote:Neotony your avatar is freaking me out. Every time I see it I think of Jay but your positions are obviously 180 degrees different from his. It's really creepy.

I miss jay.