Romeo and Juliet Mafia - Capulet Victory. +Paris+John

[jgordon1111]

and as much as I enjoy fighting with edoc over everything, When I did reread zimmah's scenario's, what he was saying rang with the possibility of truth. and that is why I backed up from my original plan of making sure third parties got eliminated along with juliet.

If not correct yes edoc is one hell of a liar,and I will omgus him in every game that we are in,to include future one's. Edoc that last part was a joke.

[SPARTACUS1974]

i think the 3rd party,s are here to help us in some way like dazza to reveal roles, but we seem to have to many roles that are just to survive and if edoc and general are correct that only the vigs need to die for the rest to win thats 14v2 or really 15v1 as the 2 vigs did not talk to each other ?

[shieldgenerator7]

i think the 3rd party,s are here to help us in some way like dazza to reveal roles, but we seem to have to many roles that are just to survive and if edoc and general are correct that only the vigs need to die for the rest to win thats 14v2 or really 15v1 as the 2 vigs did not talk to each other ?

well I doubt that the mod planned on all these third party roles being revealed this early in the game. As many have said, the stated win condition for each family is to eliminate the other. So that would be 6 v 6 with 4 3rd parties. But now, with the alternate win condition revealed, it has practically turned into an SK hunt. This is of course assuming the game ends when the vigs are killed, but I suspect there's going to be a twist at the end like in CLUE.

[Leehar]

Also remember sg that ghostly semi-claimed he was masoned with an Abrams!

yeah, but we don't know who abrams is. So you're right, that means we probably have at least 5 on each side, but my guess is still 6, because I doubt there'd be that much 3rd party players.

I agree with you on the 6, because I'm sure we can safely assume if ghostly was masoned he's another servant like Abrams.

[chapcrap]

I would guess that both families have the same roles. That only makes it fair. So, the Capulets probably have a pair of masons as well.

I don't think that I can believe edoc. And I sure don't believe General. Helping them get their win conditions and then I will win? I just don't buy that. And I would also like to test General's claim.

unvote vote General

[alt1978]

I have to say that I agree with a lot of what chap says here...if general's win condition is for the two vig's to be killed, there's no way for that to be compatible with the families' win condition unless the last family member killed was also the last vig to be killed. Therefore i bet there is a grain of truth in what general is saying in that it is possible for the win conditions to be mutually inclusive...but only i would be willing to bet peaches to pares that it's only if that last vig kill finishes all of either the montegues or capulets family.
general has consistently said that he is invincible, and that his win condition has nothing to do with friar john (dazza). I'm still tempted to believe this...but hear me out because I know those two things sound fishy to my ears and this is where I wanted to play devil's advocate with what chap just laid out...
zimmah has played this pretty close to the book (just some pun intended) and friar lawrence being invincible makes sense...but what doesn't make sense under any scenario that I can possibly foresee is there not to be a connection between the two friars. I think that general has been a master of half truth's this game...and it wouldn't surprise me if their win conditions are completely separate. However...what if their losing conditions were linked. As if in the case that if Friar John is lynched or killed, Friar lawrence is also killed by papal association or something of the sort. I think if you want to take a crack at general...you might have to get dazza.
I don't know if that road is worth going down just yet...dazza is important in gathering information and something just feels weird about lynching a friar...but I think it's an answer to how general does not win this game.

I'm willing to test the general's claim of invinciblity...but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it does. When it does...I still think considerable caution needs to be issued when considering what he says about win conditions if lynching the general is the way we choose to go.

Edoc has sufficiently convinced me that jgordon had no choice but to act as anti-montegue as he has to unvote. I'd like to hear some feedback from folks before casting another vote.

Unvote Jgordon

Again...i don't know if getting to general is even worth going through dazza until we know everyone's role...especially right now i think the information dazza is providing is more important than anything...but it maybe something to consider once we have everyone nailed down and dazza is no longer useful to the group.

[TheGeneral2112]

For the love of god, the next idiot who says "but *snivel* but, but my win condition doesn't mention anything but total annihilation..." I am going to tear apart. Yes you are right. It doesn't say that. My role in this game is to convince you that you can indeed win, WITHOUT killing the whole other side. That is what I need to do to win, stop the fighting. Not stop the fighting by killing off one half or the other, but stop it before you are all dead.

Comprende?

Either I am a complete and total liar having a grand old time before my ruse is up and my lynch comes in, or just maybe I have some information about alternate WCs.

THIS THISTHISTHIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS!!!

Okay, I'm going to sit down now.

[zimmah]

Vote count

[2] alt1978 - TheGeneral2112, sg7, (L-6)
[2] TheGeneral2112 - SPARTACUS1974, chapcrap(L-6)

[all those guys below have 0 votes but can be voted]
Victor Sullivan
JGordon
Edocsil
Shieldgenerator7
dazza2008
new guy1
ghostly447
Bleed_Green
chapcrap
Leehar
NoSurvivors
SPARTACUS1974

there's 14 alive so 8 votes are needed for a lynch

[jgordon1111]

Damn this is going against what i believe is a game winner for all of us left alive, but if the general is not invincible then that is a game changer and I have helped screw my family over big, its only one day to test the invinciblility thing anyway Unvote Vote general. and if he is invincible only a day wasted and we go back to plan B

[ghostly447]

For the love of god, the next idiot who says "but *snivel* but, but my win condition doesn't mention anything but total annihilation..." I am going to tear apart. Yes you are right. It doesn't say that. My role in this game is to convince you that you can indeed win, WITHOUT killing the whole other side. That is what I need to do to win, stop the fighting. Not stop the fighting by killing off one half or the other, but stop it before you are all dead.

Comprende?

Either I am a complete and total liar having a grand old time before my ruse is up and my lynch comes in, or just maybe I have some information about alternate WCs.

Okay. Your role in this game is to CONVINCE us that there is another WC. Your only need is the death of the 2 vigs? umm. For some reason, that doesnt sound like the whole story to me. My WC is to kill all capulets. But you only have to hunt the 2 vigs. I think you are a hell of a liar having a grand old swing at a game that you arent expecting to win like, find your fellows, general and someone else, kill the vigs. In which case you are rather close to winning. Or there may be some more to it, some less to it, etc. Because I HIGHLY DOUBT that you killing the vigs is going to change MY WC being kill all the capulets.

I think you are taking a big risk right now trying to complete an impossible WC, and have somehow brainwashed everyone into believing you.

Unvote vote edocsil if I voted. cant remember.

[new guy1]

For the love of god, the next idiot who says "but *snivel* but, but my win condition doesn't mention anything but total annihilation..." I am going to tear apart. Yes you are right. It doesn't say that. My role in this game is to convince you that you can indeed win, WITHOUT killing the whole other side. That is what I need to do to win, stop the fighting. Not stop the fighting by killing off one half or the other, but stop it before you are all dead.

Comprende?

Either I am a complete and total liar having a grand old time before my ruse is up and my lynch comes in, or just maybe I have some information about alternate WCs.

Okay. Your role in this game is to CONVINCE us that there is another WC. Your only need is the death of the 2 vigs? umm. For some reason, that doesnt sound like the whole story to me. My WC is to kill all capulets. But you only have to hunt the 2 vigs. I think you are a hell of a liar having a grand old swing at a game that you arent expecting to win like, find your fellows, general and someone else, kill the vigs. In which case you are rather close to winning. Or there may be some more to it, some less to it, etc. Because I HIGHLY DOUBT that you killing the vigs is going to change MY WC being kill all the capulets.

I think you are taking a big risk right now trying to complete an impossible WC, and have somehow brainwashed everyone into believing you.

Unvote vote edocsil if I voted. cant remember.

im sorry, but do you know something we dont know? because as far as im concerned, if his WC is to bring peace to everyone, then killing the vigs would be required because they are killing the opposing families. for some reason i dont think you are in favor of the majority (if the vigs are killed and we can actually all win). FOS ghostly

[jgordon1111]

got to say ghost your consistent and always have counter points.

[edocsil]

For the love of god, the next idiot who says "but *snivel* but, but my win condition doesn't mention anything but total annihilation..." I am going to tear apart. Yes you are right. It doesn't say that. My role in this game is to convince you that you can indeed win, WITHOUT killing the whole other side. That is what I need to do to win, stop the fighting. Not stop the fighting by killing off one half or the other, but stop it before you are all dead.

Comprende?

Either I am a complete and total liar having a grand old time before my ruse is up and my lynch comes in, or just maybe I have some information about alternate WCs.

Okay. Your role in this game is to CONVINCE us that there is another WC. Your only need is the death of the 2 vigs? umm. For some reason, that doesnt sound like the whole story to me. My WC is to kill all capulets. But you only have to hunt the 2 vigs. I think you are a hell of a liar having a grand old swing at a game that you arent expecting to win like, find your fellows, general and someone else, kill the vigs. In which case you are rather close to winning. Or there may be some more to it, some less to it, etc. Because I HIGHLY DOUBT that you killing the vigs is going to change MY WC being kill all the capulets.

I think you are taking a big risk right now trying to complete an impossible WC, and have somehow brainwashed everyone into believing you.

Unvote vote edocsil if I voted. cant remember.

Your right. I was given an Impossible WC.

Please, give Zimmah more credit then that. Dead killers, convince NL. If I am liar and that isn't my WC, surprise, the game will continue on as before.

He has counters JG, but his logic is faulty. He is assuming I have a nearly impossible WC, and that is moronic. I don't know if he sees me and my plan as a threat or if he doesn't get it, but is argument is deeply flawed.

[new guy1]

i have to say, he is a good player. hes got insane potential to me , but i doubt his points that he just stated are similar to what is happening, but those are very good suggestions.

fastposted- i have to say, that is a hard WC, but as you said, ghostly's arguement is flawed, but he brings up good points.

[jgordon1111]

ghost is good, but the flaw I see is he just claimed montegue,and if he really believed in a different WC than edoc,s he is good enough to know thats almost all of us,and that would be a serious disadvantage to montegues winning, I think he likes to win and that was a slip,to me.

[edocsil]

ghost is good, but the flaw I see is he just claimed montegue,and if he really believed in a different WC than edoc,s he is good enough to know thats almost all of us,and that would be a serious disadvantage to montegues winning, I think he likes to win and that was a slip,to me.

This is good insight JG, I agree. If he was a Capulet he would just be running with this and trying to steer the conversation towards those who are not Capulets.

[ghostly447]

wait, so I am a claimed montague. I trust that my fellow montagues, should your WC be proven NOT best for the majority, that they will be able to finish off. And if not, oh well.

Now now, I love the compliments, but lets puts those to a grinding halt (but only for a moment). Everyone likes winning jgordon. But if you people are with the majority wanting to find the last vig, what is the point in trying to lynch me anyways if I am the one who caught the last one? And edoc, I see your plan as a lie. Come now, how is my logic faulty? How does your win condition bring immediate peace to the town besides us now being forced to lynch each other to death? And a tip edoc. I believe you mentioned forcing a NL? I never brought that up..

[edocsil]

wait, so I am a claimed montague. I trust that my fellow montagues, should your WC be proven NOT best for the majority, that they will be able to finish off. And if not, oh well.

Now now, I love the compliments, but lets puts those to a grinding halt (but only for a moment). Everyone likes winning jgordon. But if you people are with the majority wanting to find the last vig, what is the point in trying to lynch me anyways if I am the one who caught the last one? And edoc, I see your plan as a lie. Come now, how is my logic faulty? How does your win condition bring immediate peace to the town besides us now being forced to lynch each other to death? And a tip edoc. I believe you mentioned forcing a NL? I never brought that up..

You are skimming hardcore man. I don't think there are any votes for you, a brief check turned up none I believe since the last VC. Also I never said anything regarding you and a NL. I need to have dead vigs and convince the rest of you to not hang anyone.

Also, your Vig is dead. A brawl between families is going to end up with your side losing. So why fight me? It is the quickest way to cause your side to lose.

Your logic is faulty because you think to little and post to much. Your side has most if not all of its members exposed. A Capulet vig will tear you apart one by one as you bicker with me. You misunderstand key points in my argument, and act as if you are being attacked when all we are trying to do is convince you that there is a way you can yet still win. Lets face it, if I and General are lying, Montague is screwed.

[TheGeneral2112]

Edoc has my EXACT win condition. I didn't out the last part of it yet, but he just did. After the vigs are dead, our role is to convince everyone to NL that day for a win of both families, Romeo, Juliet, and another 3rd party member I can't remember the name, and the survivors.

[jgordon1111]

Oh no I did not mean in any way at this point anyone should vote for you ghost,nope its the general right now to check the invincible claim as far as I am concerned, If he turns out not to be, game changer moment.

Dont worry about it general you are invincible,edoc and dazza are protected through the night.

then we continue with the game in plan B

[ghostly447]

wait, so I am a claimed montague. I trust that my fellow montagues, should your WC be proven NOT best for the majority, that they will be able to finish off. And if not, oh well.

Now now, I love the compliments, but lets puts those to a grinding halt (but only for a moment). Everyone likes winning jgordon. But if you people are with the majority wanting to find the last vig, what is the point in trying to lynch me anyways if I am the one who caught the last one? And edoc, I see your plan as a lie. Come now, how is my logic faulty? How does your win condition bring immediate peace to the town besides us now being forced to lynch each other to death? And a tip edoc. I believe you mentioned forcing a NL? I never brought that up..

You are skimming hardcore man. I don't think there are any votes for you, a brief check turned up none I believe since the last VC. Also I never said anything regarding you and a NL. I need to have dead vigs and convince the rest of you to not hang anyone.

Also, your Vig is dead. A brawl between families is going to end up with your side losing. So why fight me? It is the quickest way to cause your side to lose.

Your logic is faulty because you think to little and post to much. Your side has most if not all of its members exposed. A Capulet vig will tear you apart one by one as you bicker with me. You misunderstand key points in my argument, and act as if you are being attacked when all we are trying to do is convince you that there is a way you can yet still win. Lets face it, if I and General are lying, Montague is screwed.

But see, there goes your logic too. "Please, give Zimmah more credit then that. Dead killers, convince NL."

You are trying to win me over by telling me that my side has no chance if you are wrong? Good logic there. So that still doesnt answer if your lying, in which case I lose to your WC anyways. So, again, my logic is bad?

My logic is faulty because I post too much and think too little..Hmm. I do not recall even watching this game that much until I counterclaimed CLEVER on behalf of my mason brother. So there goes your case altogether, because this is the first game that I have been nearly completely inactive in up until now. And I will admit that. And here comes your threatening again that if your lying we are still screwed. Wow. thats SOOOMMMEEE Logic you got there dude. Some logic indeed. What your logical self tends to forget though is that even if we are screwed because of the montague, capulet platform (them being stronger) is that we have more of a fighting chance trying to seek them all out and turn them on each other than we do if you completely fool us into landing right into your WC for you.

[TheGeneral2112]

wait, so I am a claimed montague. I trust that my fellow montagues, should your WC be proven NOT best for the majority, that they will be able to finish off. And if not, oh well.

Now now, I love the compliments, but lets puts those to a grinding halt (but only for a moment). Everyone likes winning jgordon. But if you people are with the majority wanting to find the last vig, what is the point in trying to lynch me anyways if I am the one who caught the last one? And edoc, I see your plan as a lie. Come now, how is my logic faulty? How does your win condition bring immediate peace to the town besides us now being forced to lynch each other to death? And a tip edoc. I believe you mentioned forcing a NL? I never brought that up..

You are skimming hardcore man. I don't think there are any votes for you, a brief check turned up none I believe since the last VC. Also I never said anything regarding you and a NL. I need to have dead vigs and convince the rest of you to not hang anyone.

Also, your Vig is dead. A brawl between families is going to end up with your side losing. So why fight me? It is the quickest way to cause your side to lose.

Your logic is faulty because you think to little and post to much. Your side has most if not all of its members exposed. A Capulet vig will tear you apart one by one as you bicker with me. You misunderstand key points in my argument, and act as if you are being attacked when all we are trying to do is convince you that there is a way you can yet still win. Lets face it, if I and General are lying, Montague is screwed.

But see, there goes your logic too. "Please, give Zimmah more credit then that. Dead killers, convince NL."

You are trying to win me over by telling me that my side has no chance if you are wrong? Good logic there. So that still doesnt answer if your lying, in which case I lose to your WC anyways. So, again, my logic is bad?

My logic is faulty because I post too much and think too little..Hmm. I do not recall even watching this game that much until I counterclaimed CLEVER on behalf of my mason brother. So there goes your case altogether, because this is the first game that I have been nearly completely inactive in up until now. And I will admit that. And here comes your threatening again that if your lying we are still screwed. Wow. thats SOOOMMMEEE Logic you got there dude. Some logic indeed. What your logical self tends to forget though is that even if we are screwed because of the montague, capulet platform (them being stronger) is that we have more of a fighting chance trying to seek them all out and turn them on each other than we do if you completely fool us into landing right into your WC for you.

YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT!!!!!!!!! OUR WIN CONDITION IS TO GET YOU TO USE YOUR ALTERNATE WIN CONDITION AND STOP THE BLOODSHED!!! HOW ARE YOU SO THICK HEADED????????

[ghostly447]

wait, so I am a claimed montague. I trust that my fellow montagues, should your WC be proven NOT best for the majority, that they will be able to finish off. And if not, oh well.

Now now, I love the compliments, but lets puts those to a grinding halt (but only for a moment). Everyone likes winning jgordon. But if you people are with the majority wanting to find the last vig, what is the point in trying to lynch me anyways if I am the one who caught the last one? And edoc, I see your plan as a lie. Come now, how is my logic faulty? How does your win condition bring immediate peace to the town besides us now being forced to lynch each other to death? And a tip edoc. I believe you mentioned forcing a NL? I never brought that up..

You are skimming hardcore man. I don't think there are any votes for you, a brief check turned up none I believe since the last VC. Also I never said anything regarding you and a NL. I need to have dead vigs and convince the rest of you to not hang anyone.

Also, your Vig is dead. A brawl between families is going to end up with your side losing. So why fight me? It is the quickest way to cause your side to lose.

Your logic is faulty because you think to little and post to much. Your side has most if not all of its members exposed. A Capulet vig will tear you apart one by one as you bicker with me. You misunderstand key points in my argument, and act as if you are being attacked when all we are trying to do is convince you that there is a way you can yet still win. Lets face it, if I and General are lying, Montague is screwed.

But see, there goes your logic too. "Please, give Zimmah more credit then that. Dead killers, convince NL."

You are trying to win me over by telling me that my side has no chance if you are wrong? Good logic there. So that still doesnt answer if your lying, in which case I lose to your WC anyways. So, again, my logic is bad?

My logic is faulty because I post too much and think too little..Hmm. I do not recall even watching this game that much until I counterclaimed CLEVER on behalf of my mason brother. So there goes your case altogether, because this is the first game that I have been nearly completely inactive in up until now. And I will admit that. And here comes your threatening again that if your lying we are still screwed. Wow. thats SOOOMMMEEE Logic you got there dude. Some logic indeed. What your logical self tends to forget though is that even if we are screwed because of the montague, capulet platform (them being stronger) is that we have more of a fighting chance trying to seek them all out and turn them on each other than we do if you completely fool us into landing right into your WC for you.

YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT!!!!!!!!! OUR WIN CONDITION IS TO GET YOU TO USE YOUR ALTERNATE WIN CONDITION AND STOP THE BLOODSHED!!! HOW ARE YOU SO THICK HEADED????????

Woah. You mad bro?

Thanks. Dick. How am I so thickheaded? Maybe because I dont fully understand why people would have specific roles to counter the one thing that drives people: Their WC. Maybe because the players displaying this case arent a set of people I particularly trust. But calling me thick headed and cursing is not going to get me to convert. Ever think about that?

[jgordon1111]

will you 3 stop arguing for a moment and lets get back to business at hand, will those of you interested in thier own win conditions please vote general to put at least part of his story to the test. Then we can move forward from there.

[ghostly447]

will you 3 stop arguing for a moment and lets get back to business at hand, will those of you interested in thier own win conditions please vote general to put at least part of his story to the test. Then we can move forward from there.

Fine, I will. But seriously, this seems fishy to me. Vote General