Conquer Club

So, NYC cleared the park. What now, 1st amendment losers?

BigBallinStalin wrote:So, NYC cleared the park. What now, 1st amendment losers?

Zombies don't have first amendment rights. Eat that, and brains, Zombies.


--Andy

jimboston wrote:In the elementary and secondary level the amount of money gov't pays EVERYWHERE in the US is higher (in both adjusted and unadjusted dollars) on a per-child basis than it was in 1990. Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

So no... Education funding has not decreased.

The mandate for what we need to teach kids has expanded logarythmically.

And.. when you take out special needs kids, the picture does change.

PLAYER57832 wrote:And.. when you take out special needs kids, the picture does change.

Well honestly, that depends on where I'm taking them.

BigBallinStalin wrote:So, NYC cleared the park. What now, 1st amendment losers?

The fact that they waited til 2am and barred the press makes it obvious how righteous these soldiers of the 1% are.

jimboston wrote:Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_s ... ol-student

Hrmmm?

Also that data is wildly incomplete.

spurgistan wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:So, NYC cleared the park. What now, 1st amendment losers?

The fact that they waited til 2am and barred the press makes it obvious how righteous these soldiers of the 1% are.

Considering that's the time where they were breaking the law (living in the tents) and when the fewest people would be there to have to remove, then it makes the most sense. Zucotti park is a private park, so those occupiers had no right to stay there indefinitely. How would you feel if me and a large group of friends come stay on your property, leaving it a huge mess in the process?

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jimboston wrote:In the elementary and secondary level the amount of money gov't pays EVERYWHERE in the US is higher (in both adjusted and unadjusted dollars) on a per-child basis than it was in 1990. Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

So no... Education funding has not decreased.

The mandate for what we need to teach kids has expanded logarythmically.

And.. when you take out special needs kids, the picture does change.

I agree we should take special needs kids out of the normal schools.

What we need to teach (or rather what we should teach) is no different than what kid in other countries need to learn. Special interests have promoted their own believes which, I agree, drains dollars away from the basics.

Nothing you have said contradicts the fact that we spend more... Nor that we spend more now than we have in the past.

Lootifer wrote:

jimboston wrote:Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_s ... ol-student

Hrmmm?

Also that data is wildly incomplete.

This statistic shos us 3rd... Not 1st.

Sorry.

Of course you can manipulate stats... Is that public spending or all spending? Is that per child in the country... Or per child attending public school system? Is that all dollars or just local spending? Does it factor in SPED? Chapter 12? Is it only regular spending or does it included federal grant money? Does it factor in corporate or private donations? What about things indirectly related... Spend like the Free Lunch Program?

jimboston wrote:

Lootifer wrote:

jimboston wrote:Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_s ... ol-student

Hrmmm?

Also that data is wildly incomplete.

This statistic shos us 3rd... Not 1st.

Sorry.

Of course you can manipulate stats... Is that public spending or all spending? Is that per child in the country... Or per child attending public school system? Is that all dollars or just local spending? Does it factor in SPED? Chapter 12? Is it only regular spending or does it included federal grant money? Does it factor in corporate or private donations? What about things indirectly related... Spend like the Free Lunch Program?

Hey don't look at me, you're the one who made the assertion! I was just debunking it.

Lootifer wrote:

jimboston wrote:

Lootifer wrote:

jimboston wrote:Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_s ... ol-student

Hrmmm?

Also that data is wildly incomplete.

This statistic shos us 3rd... Not 1st.

Sorry.

Of course you can manipulate stats... Is that public spending or all spending? Is that per child in the country... Or per child attending public school system? Is that all dollars or just local spending? Does it factor in SPED? Chapter 12? Is it only regular spending or does it included federal grant money? Does it factor in corporate or private donations? What about things indirectly related... Spend like the Free Lunch Program?

Hey don't look at me, you're the one who made the assertion! I was just debunking it.

Apparently you have failed.

I stand by my assertion and I can also post links.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ ... ison_x.htm

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa126.html

http://mat.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus ... fographic/

However.... No matter how you slice it.. We might be 1st or 3rd... The point I made to refute Player's claim stands. We spend PLENTY on education. We are failing for lack of investment.

So what is OWS accomplishing besides getting a bunch of laws passed against organizing and sign hanging on public property, and making tuberculosis cool again?

So...about that whole fading out thing...protesters at Zucotti have grown tenfold and have torn apart police barricades.

GreecePwns wrote:So...about that whole fading out thing...protesters at Zucotti have grown tenfold and have torn apart police barricades.

Sounds like they're ALL about peaceful protests there.

Bring on the drones!

show

--Andy

Night Strike wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:So...about that whole fading out thing...protesters at Zucotti have grown tenfold and have torn apart police barricades.

Sounds like they're ALL about peaceful protests there.

Won't somebody think of the barricades?? [sobs]

Night Strike, no sir, they are not all about peaceful protests. There are several anarchist and communist groups that will openly declare they support a proletarian revolution to topple both corporations and government. They do exist.

I don't know what that has to do with them taking down metal fences that restrict their access to public streets and sidewalks.

GreecePwns wrote:Night Strike, no sir, they are not all about peaceful protests. There are several anarchist and communist groups that will openly declare they support a proletarian revolution to topple both corporations and government. They do exist.

I don't know what that has to do with them taking down metal fences that restrict their access to public streets and sidewalks.

I think this would be the case with the Tea Party movement if they felt as wronged as the occupy protesters do. If you tried to take away the 2nd amendment I guarantee there wouldn't be a peaceful movement.
These anarchists and communist groups feel like the lack of their version of equality is an equivalent right.

I am not saying I agree with any of these groups, I am just saying my view of them.

In fact, it was New York's finest who bashed peaceful protesters heads in and are currently denying medical treatment to a Romanian citizen who was stabbed in the hand by a policeman and is bleeding form his head from a baton blow.

And now, I am witnessing them kicking him while on the ground.

EDIT: This, non-coincidentally, falls on the anniversary of the 17th November student uprising at EPM, a university in Athens, that was violently resisted by the US-installed military dictatorship that ruled until 1974. This was the beginning of the end of that regime.

kentington wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Night Strike, no sir, they are not all about peaceful protests. There are several anarchist and communist groups that will openly declare they support a proletarian revolution to topple both corporations and government. They do exist.

I don't know what that has to do with them taking down metal fences that restrict their access to public streets and sidewalks.

I think this would be the case with the Tea Party movement if they felt as wronged as the occupy protesters do. If you tried to take away the 2nd amendment I guarantee there wouldn't be a peaceful movement.
These anarchists and communist groups feel like the lack of their version of equality is an equivalent right.

I am not saying I agree with any of these groups, I am just saying my view of them.

Except their "version of equality" is not based on Constitutional rights, so your comparison to the 2nd amendment isn't even valid.

Night Strike wrote:
Except their "version of equality" is not based on Constitutional rights, so your comparison to the 2nd amendment isn't even valid.

Agreed, lets keep the Constitution for the select few who've earned it!

Associates and will be taking a tour around the US, stopping by schools and confiscating their Constitution copies. If anyone has a pocket version...we'll get you eventually too...assuming you haven't earned it of course.


--Andy

Night Strike wrote:

kentington wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Night Strike, no sir, they are not all about peaceful protests. There are several anarchist and communist groups that will openly declare they support a proletarian revolution to topple both corporations and government. They do exist.

I don't know what that has to do with them taking down metal fences that restrict their access to public streets and sidewalks.

I think this would be the case with the Tea Party movement if they felt as wronged as the occupy protesters do. If you tried to take away the 2nd amendment I guarantee there wouldn't be a peaceful movement.
These anarchists and communist groups feel like the lack of their version of equality is an equivalent right.

I am not saying I agree with any of these groups, I am just saying my view of them.

Except their "version of equality" is not based on Constitutional rights, so your comparison to the 2nd amendment isn't even valid.

Ummmm... my comparison is completely valid.

kentington wrote:These anarchists and communist groups feel like the lack of their version of equality is an equivalent right.

I am not saying I agree with any of these groups, I am just saying my view of them.

They feel like it is an equivalent right. So, to them it is the same thing. After all anarchists and communist don't believe in the constitution.

I'm not sure how much weight this has at the moment, but looks like some people are starting to think of a Constitutional Convention, which would seem to satisfy the demands of both sides of the latest argument ITT. Might be an idea to carry forward and bring people to the table.

kentington wrote:

Night Strike wrote:

kentington wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Night Strike, no sir, they are not all about peaceful protests. There are several anarchist and communist groups that will openly declare they support a proletarian revolution to topple both corporations and government. They do exist.

I don't know what that has to do with them taking down metal fences that restrict their access to public streets and sidewalks.

I think this would be the case with the Tea Party movement if they felt as wronged as the occupy protesters do. If you tried to take away the 2nd amendment I guarantee there wouldn't be a peaceful movement.
These anarchists and communist groups feel like the lack of their version of equality is an equivalent right.

I am not saying I agree with any of these groups, I am just saying my view of them.

Except their "version of equality" is not based on Constitutional rights, so your comparison to the 2nd amendment isn't even valid.

Ummmm... my comparison is completely valid.

kentington wrote:These anarchists and communist groups feel like the lack of their version of equality is an equivalent right.

I am not saying I agree with any of these groups, I am just saying my view of them.

They feel like it is an equivalent right. So, to them it is the same thing. After all anarchists and communist don't believe in the constitution.

But rights aren't based on feelings. It will never matter what someone "feels", it's either a right or it's not a right.

Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure how much weight this has at the moment, but looks like some people are starting to think of a Constitutional Convention, which would seem to satisfy the demands of both sides of the latest argument ITT. Might be an idea to carry forward and bring people to the table.

It would either be a dismal failure or a massive loss of rights for the people (which would end up being a dismal failure). The people at OWS don't want rights or the rule of law, they want to use mob rule to take from others and give to themselves. And then those "rights" would be enshrined forever in a new constitution. Our founders weren't in this for their own prosperity like OWS would be.