1982 [Quenched]

[nolefan5311]

As I discussed in the game we're in koontz, I really think there needs to be a bonus override for the plane bonus. As is, if you hold all 6 planes for one side, you get a +12, and these regions can be totally held by holding only two regions (each sides helicopter). The +6 should override the +4, etc., instead of being able to pull the +6, the +4, and the +2.

[koontz1973]

As I discussed in the game we're in koontz, I really think there needs to be a bonus override for the plane bonus. As is, if you hold all 6 planes for one side, you get a +12, and these regions can be totally held by holding only two regions (each sides helicopter). The +6 should override the +4, etc., instead of being able to pull the +6, the +4, and the +2.

Each helicopter can be assaulted from 2 or 3 different territs. You have a total of 27 neutrals to get if you go for the max bonus (51for both sides). Holding both helicopters in the early game is impossible. All aircraft can be shot down from from the opposing countries planes so defending them is imperative. Looking at games since you spoke about this in game chat but it does not seem to be the overriding factor in games. Players are not grabbing them quick enough for my liking. Air power won this war so it needs to be strong and right now, I think it may be a tad early to say it is too strong.

Why would anyone go for 27 neutrals just to get a 6 bonus? They would become useless. You need to defend both helicopters as you said but they can be attacked by 5 territs, which is not easy. You only need to break one side to be able to shoot down all planes and remove all bonuses.

It is a different dynamic for the game but I see no reason for the override.

But here is another new image that fixes a colour problem with the last one. Sorry
[bigimg]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6751/1982l.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3006/1982s.png[/bigimg]

[nolefan5311]

Perhaps you could lower the neutrals some? Perhaps that the reason players aren't grabbing them quick for you. But a +12 for 6 regions is way too high.

The bonus spreadsheet indicates it should be a 3.25. 6 total territories that can be defended by 2 territories with 5 territories that can attack and 7 different continent neighbors yields a suggested decimal bonus of 3.25. And then the bonus can be doubled by defending the same exact two regions. If someone takes control of both the helicopters early they can chip away at the planes and in a round or two be given a +24 with two regions to defend. That's game over.

I understand about wanting to keep it as historically accurate as possible, but for the sake of gameplay some things need to be adjusted. I don't know why this, and other issues I've already posted on, weren't discussed in the MFW.

[koontz1973]

The reason players are not grabbing them quick is that players tend not to go for neutrals. That has always been the case, hence the higher bonuses. To try and get them to go for them.

Your 6 total territs that can be defended by 2 territs bonuses say around 3.2. What does it say when you run the numbers that say you need to defend all 6 territs? In other words, you hold all British aircraft and I hold all Argentine aircraft.

[nolefan5311]

The reason players are not grabbing them quick is that players tend not to go for neutrals. That has always been the case, hence the higher bonuses. To try and get them to go for them.

Your 6 total territs that can be defended by 2 territs bonuses say around 3.2. What does it say when you run the numbers that say you need to defend all 6 territs? In other words, you hold all British aircraft and I hold all Argentine aircraft.

6 territories for the bonus with 6 territories to defend, 11 territories that can attack it, and 7 continent neighbors yields a suggested decimal bonus of 6.92. This is much closer. I'm working now and can't too detailed with this, but I will try to post some ideas tonight too, if you're receptive to receiving them

[koontz1973]

but I will try to post some ideas tonight too, if you're receptive to receiving them

Nope, not in a million years.

Post away.

[thehippo8]

Thanks for the perfect screws! (Image update)

[thenobodies80]

But here is another new image that fixes a colour problem with the last one. Sorry
[bigimg]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6751/1982l.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3006/1982s.png[/bigimg]

Sent to the turtle!

[koontz1973]

Thanks.

[thenobodies80]

and updated.

[deantursx]

Hey so I've played 3 or 4 1v1 games on 1982, and it seems like every time it was decided immediately. This is of course the case with most maps on CC haha, but I was wondering if it might be a little interesting if more spots were randomly neutral and less held by players? Just a thought.

[koontz1973]

Looked at the xml and noticed tat I have not put a couple of things in tat could help the 1v1 game. Will get that done this weekend. That might help the 1v1 game.

[isaiah40]

Looked at the xml and noticed tat I have not put a couple of things in tat could help the 1v1 game. Will get that done this weekend. That might help the 1v1 game.

Nah leave it alone so I can beat you again!!

Really what ever will help make things more balanced!!

[koontz1973]

What I was looking at is programming start positions with a max of 17. All territs that are not deployed will start as 1 neutral with the current ones staying as they are. This would mean that in 1v1 and 1v1v1 games, all players will start with 15 troops and all games 4players and above will not be affected. The random drop will still be in effect but with an upper limit applied for the small games.

As for beating me, it is still 3/2 in my favour so if you want a rematch, set it up.

[isaiah40]

As for beating me, it is still 3/2 in my favour so if you want a rematch, set it up.

Deal as soon as you make the changes - to see how it plays of course.

[Swifte]

I've played this map a few times now and I like it, particularly the choice of graphics and the interesting gameplay.

I know there's a note on the map about the 1 deploy per 4 regions, but could there be a note about the minimum of 4 as well? I know it's crowded already.. but that's a fairly unique rule to the map, i keep trying to get people under 16 thinking it's going to do some good and here they come again with 4.

[koontz1973]

Will see if I can add it in Swifte. As you said, it is tight but I should be able to get it in somewhere.

[Jatekos]

- Flag signs: It took me quite long to figure out which is the side of the British air force and which is the side of Argentinian one. My first guess was that the British planes could be the ones on the right side. I am quite familiar with both flags, but somehow the sign that is used here to represent the UK flag did not ring the bell for me quickly. Would it be possible to refer to these signs on the legend (next to the names of the nations somewhere)?
- "Reinforcements 1/4": I am not a native English speaker as you can tell, but I think that the proper CC terminology would be "region bonus". The verb reinforce in CC is used to describe the post-attack phase when the player can move his/her existing troops to another place.
- "Woods, mountains and mine fields are impassable" - The pictures below this text are in different order. They should match.

Will look to the flag problem but right now, there is no room for anything else in the legend. Will change reinforcements 1/4. Grey shape is a sinking ship to reinforce the impassable. Clearly seen on the large map.

I would like to bump the above suggestions before they're forgotten. Also, I think that the sinking ship would be more recognizable and would look much better from a different angle (i.e. you could show it more from the side).

[koontz1973]

I am working on it, it is just hard with the size. Also, as this is not a game play requirement, was waiting for a few more things so as the foundry boss did not need to update the map so often.

[RUBENIUSSS]

Great map...but the planes should be Autodeploy!

[koontz1973]

Planes are changing a little, but auto deploy goes against what planes are.

Helicopter (aircraft one) will only attack same country LZ's
Aircraft 2 and 4 will have bonuses dropped a tad but 6 will stay the same.

Working on the images now. The xml is done though.

[koontz1973]

Game play changes.
Aircraft 1 cannot attack enemy landing zones.
All territs (apart from the ones coded neutral before) are now in positions with a max of 17 per player given out. This will mean that in small games 2/3 players, there will be more neutrals n the board (set at 2) but larger games are not affected.
Graphical changes.
Impassable legend now in right order.
reinforcements and minimum is in side frame.
Aircraft flags are now in legend.
Aircraft 1 wording changed.
Images and xml.
[bigimg]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6751/1982l.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3006/1982s.png[/bigimg]

1982v2.xml

(44.65 KiB) Downloaded 1286 times

Will wait for these to be uploaded before I kick isaiah butt all over the map.

[thenobodies80]

Sent to the turtle!

[thenobodies80]

Updated!

[koontz1973]

That was quick. Thanks.