Conquer Club

black elk speaks wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:f*ck it. I'd vote for Obama just because he's black. That whole shit about him being black and swaying votes really tells me America still hasn't accepted black properly (unless they're Oprah and hand out gifts to wealthy white people). Seriously, the care about black, woman, muslim or whatever shows how much your country still cares about those issues. Even when you say you don't care, it's still an issue.


f*ck you guys and your shitty ways.

I am glad that you are not an american then. voting for someone just because they are black is just as bad, IMHO, as voting for someone just because they are not black.

pimpdave wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:
I'm not voting for him because I love blacks or think they are better at stuff or because it excites my liberal heart. I'd vote for him because the issue matters in the US. People (and not just a bunch of racists) actually talk about his color as important.

In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders. The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either. Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio. Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

If any of that is confusing, I urge you to read Souls of Black Folk. W.E.B. DuBois is much more eloquent and thorough on the subject than I can be.

I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

pimpdave wrote:In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

pimpdave wrote:And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

pimpdave wrote:Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders.

pimpdave wrote:The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

pimpdave wrote:I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either.

pimpdave wrote: Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio.

pimpdave wrote:Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

pimpdave wrote:I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

Iz Man wrote:Lets see if I get this straight.....

pimpdave wrote:In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

So its "very rare" that the "black folk" can find role models in their community? Your point being there are only "very rare" instances in which "black folk" can be described as role models?

pimpdave wrote:And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

...because Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Robert Woodson, Brian Jones, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, Armstrong Williams, Ken Hamblen, Ezola Foster, Bill Cosby, George S. Schuyler, Glenn C. Loury, and countless other "black folk" who have been very successful in their lives don't count. After all, they may espouse (what some would call) conservative ideals; therefore, they're not down with the struggle........ Uncle Toms, if you will....

pimpdave wrote:Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders.

By vices you mean shady landscaping deals, or associations with admitted domestic terrorists & black liberation theologians? (despite being half white)

pimpdave wrote:The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

See list above of prominent, successful black Americans who haven't been assassinated.....

pimpdave wrote:I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either.

Like graduating from Harvard....

pimpdave wrote: Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio.

So being black is like being kicked in the face by a horse, or having polio.......I guess future artistes & sculptures will "whiten" him up a bit....

pimpdave wrote:Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

Its pretty obvious race matters to you.
Obama, despite being half black-folk, has adapted and overcome insurmountable odds. Quite a feat. I guess it was only possible due to his white side..... After all, according to you (and DuBois, I presume), blacks are inherently not capable of success......only in "rare" instances....

pimpdave wrote:I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

Yes, lets.
I'm curious as to your take on Sarah Palin being nominated for VP. I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of examples on how she overcame such odds despite being a woman....

Iz Man wrote:Lets see if I get this straight.....

pimpdave wrote:In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

So its "very rare" that the "black folk" can find role models in their community? Your point being there are only "very rare" instances in which "black folk" can be described as role models?

pimpdave wrote:And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

...because Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Robert Woodson, Brian Jones, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, Armstrong Williams, Ken Hamblen, Ezola Foster, Bill Cosby, George S. Schuyler, Glenn C. Loury, and countless other "black folk" who have been very successful in their lives don't count. After all, they may espouse (what some would call) conservative ideals; therefore, they're not down with the struggle........ Uncle Toms, if you will....

pimpdave wrote:Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders.

By vices you mean shady landscaping deals, or associations with admitted domestic terrorists & black liberation theologians? (despite being half white)

pimpdave wrote:The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

See list above of prominent, successful black Americans who haven't been assassinated.....

pimpdave wrote:I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either.

Like graduating from Harvard....

pimpdave wrote: Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio.

So being black is like being kicked in the face by a horse, or having polio.......I guess future artistes & sculptures will "whiten" him up a bit....

pimpdave wrote:Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

Its pretty obvious race matters to you.
Obama, despite being half black-folk, has adapted and overcome insurmountable odds. Quite a feat. I guess it was only possible due to his white side..... After all, according to you (and DuBois, I presume), blacks are inherently not capable of success......only in "rare" instances....

pimpdave wrote:I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

Yes, lets.
I'm curious as to your take on Sarah Palin being nominated for VP. I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of examples on how she overcame such odds despite being a woman....

silvanricky wrote:

Iz Man wrote:Lets see if I get this straight.....

pimpdave wrote:In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

So its "very rare" that the "black folk" can find role models in their community? Your point being there are only "very rare" instances in which "black folk" can be described as role models?

pimpdave wrote:And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

...because Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Robert Woodson, Brian Jones, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, Armstrong Williams, Ken Hamblen, Ezola Foster, Bill Cosby, George S. Schuyler, Glenn C. Loury, and countless other "black folk" who have been very successful in their lives don't count. After all, they may espouse (what some would call) conservative ideals; therefore, they're not down with the struggle........ Uncle Toms, if you will....

pimpdave wrote:Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders.

By vices you mean shady landscaping deals, or associations with admitted domestic terrorists & black liberation theologians? (despite being half white)

pimpdave wrote:The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

See list above of prominent, successful black Americans who haven't been assassinated.....

pimpdave wrote:I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either.

Like graduating from Harvard....

pimpdave wrote: Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio.

So being black is like being kicked in the face by a horse, or having polio.......I guess future artistes & sculptures will "whiten" him up a bit....

pimpdave wrote:Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

Its pretty obvious race matters to you.
Obama, despite being half black-folk, has adapted and overcome insurmountable odds. Quite a feat. I guess it was only possible due to his white side..... After all, according to you (and DuBois, I presume), blacks are inherently not capable of success......only in "rare" instances....

pimpdave wrote:I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

Yes, lets.
I'm curious as to your take on Sarah Palin being nominated for VP. I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of examples on how she overcame such odds despite being a woman....

OMG..........Totally pwned by Iz Man

ROFL

silvanricky wrote:

Iz Man wrote:Lets see if I get this straight.....

pimpdave wrote:In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

So its "very rare" that the "black folk" can find role models in their community? Your point being there are only "very rare" instances in which "black folk" can be described as role models?

pimpdave wrote:And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

...because Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Robert Woodson, Brian Jones, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, Armstrong Williams, Ken Hamblen, Ezola Foster, Bill Cosby, George S. Schuyler, Glenn C. Loury, and countless other "black folk" who have been very successful in their lives don't count. After all, they may espouse (what some would call) conservative ideals; therefore, they're not down with the struggle........ Uncle Toms, if you will....

pimpdave wrote:Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders.

By vices you mean shady landscaping deals, or associations with admitted domestic terrorists & black liberation theologians? (despite being half white)

pimpdave wrote:The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

See list above of prominent, successful black Americans who haven't been assassinated.....

pimpdave wrote:I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either.

Like graduating from Harvard....

pimpdave wrote: Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio.

So being black is like being kicked in the face by a horse, or having polio.......I guess future artistes & sculptures will "whiten" him up a bit....

pimpdave wrote:Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

Its pretty obvious race matters to you.
Obama, despite being half black-folk, has adapted and overcome insurmountable odds. Quite a feat. I guess it was only possible due to his white side..... After all, according to you (and DuBois, I presume), blacks are inherently not capable of success......only in "rare" instances....

pimpdave wrote:I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

Yes, lets.
I'm curious as to your take on Sarah Palin being nominated for VP. I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of examples on how she overcame such odds despite being a woman....

OMG..........Totally pwned by Iz Man

ROFL

pimpdave wrote:

gdeangel wrote: Last night O'Bama's velvety throat oratory left me ready to vomit.

I take it then, that you:

A) Are unfamiliar with the great speeches of the past.
B) Don't understand the art of oratory/public speaking and the talent necessary to learn the skill.
C) Consistently take the contrary position on most debatable questions.
D) Don't understand economics.
E) All of the above.

Clearly, it's E. If you want velvety throat oratory, look at Hillary Clinton. Her speeches were almost always all about her, and pulling out manipulative anecdotes. Obama is inspiring and well spoken. Something lacking in the current president, and a quality necessary in all of the best Presidents, from Washington to Jefferson to Madison to Lincoln to TR to FDR to JFK to Reagan to Clinton.

People with the gift for oratory are not always great leaders, but all great leaders are gifted orators.

Also, what I found most refreshing about Obama's speech last night was that so much of the material he used in "specifics" were right out of The Audacity of Hope, further proving that all claims (read: smears) that Obama is never specific are levied by the illiterate or purposefully ignorant.

yodermk wrote:All right ... a VP candidate who is smart, has successfully fought her own party, has successfully taken on government corruption, knows a lot about oil and energy. She hunts moose, plays hockey, and rides a motorbike. And she's cute too. Could it possibly be better than this?

I was on the fence about voting for McCain or Barr (Libertarian). Now I enthusiastically support McCain. I don't think I've ever been this stoked about any candidate ever before!

nomaddab wrote:

pimpdave wrote:

gdeangel wrote: Last night O'Bama's velvety throat oratory left me ready to vomit.

I take it then, that you:

A) Are unfamiliar with the great speeches of the past.
B) Don't understand the art of oratory/public speaking and the talent necessary to learn the skill.
C) Consistently take the contrary position on most debatable questions.
D) Don't understand economics.
E) All of the above.

Clearly, it's E. If you want velvety throat oratory, look at Hillary Clinton. Her speeches were almost always all about her, and pulling out manipulative anecdotes. Obama is inspiring and well spoken. Something lacking in the current president, and a quality necessary in all of the best Presidents, from Washington to Jefferson to Madison to Lincoln to TR to FDR to JFK to Reagan to Clinton.

People with the gift for oratory are not always great leaders, but all great leaders are gifted orators.

Also, what I found most refreshing about Obama's speech last night was that so much of the material he used in "specifics" were right out of The Audacity of Hope, further proving that all claims (read: smears) that Obama is never specific are levied by the illiterate or purposefully ignorant.

Yeah, Hitler was an excellent orator...he ran on a platform of change as well. The fact that someone is well spoken does not say anything about thier leadership qualities. Whether you like George Bush or not he has proven himself to be a good leader. He has pushed through nearly every piece of legislation he has wanted. The good thing about a person that sucks as a public speaker is that you can almost always tell when they are lying to you. A good public speaker is nothing more than a bullsh*t artist. The best thing about Obama wining the nomination is that he beat Hillary using Bills play book...A warm smile, make you feel like he actually gives a damn and be able to tear up on command. Obama is Bill Clinton in a brown wrapper.

Fircoal wrote:

nomaddab wrote:

pimpdave wrote:

gdeangel wrote: Last night O'Bama's velvety throat oratory left me ready to vomit.

I take it then, that you:

A) Are unfamiliar with the great speeches of the past.
B) Don't understand the art of oratory/public speaking and the talent necessary to learn the skill.
C) Consistently take the contrary position on most debatable questions.
D) Don't understand economics.
E) All of the above.

Clearly, it's E. If you want velvety throat oratory, look at Hillary Clinton. Her speeches were almost always all about her, and pulling out manipulative anecdotes. Obama is inspiring and well spoken. Something lacking in the current president, and a quality necessary in all of the best Presidents, from Washington to Jefferson to Madison to Lincoln to TR to FDR to JFK to Reagan to Clinton.

People with the gift for oratory are not always great leaders, but all great leaders are gifted orators.

Also, what I found most refreshing about Obama's speech last night was that so much of the material he used in "specifics" were right out of The Audacity of Hope, further proving that all claims (read: smears) that Obama is never specific are levied by the illiterate or purposefully ignorant.

Yeah, Hitler was an excellent orator...he ran on a platform of change as well. The fact that someone is well spoken does not say anything about thier leadership qualities. Whether you like George Bush or not he has proven himself to be a good leader. He has pushed through nearly every piece of legislation he has wanted. The good thing about a person that sucks as a public speaker is that you can almost always tell when they are lying to you. A good public speaker is nothing more than a bullsh*t artist. The best thing about Obama wining the nomination is that he beat Hillary using Bills play book...A warm smile, make you feel like he actually gives a damn and be able to tear up on command. Obama is Bill Clinton in a brown wrapper.

Bush has also killed the country. A good leader doesn't kill the thing he leads. -_-

nomaddab wrote:

Fircoal wrote:

nomaddab wrote:

pimpdave wrote:

gdeangel wrote: Last night O'Bama's velvety throat oratory left me ready to vomit.

I take it then, that you:

A) Are unfamiliar with the great speeches of the past.
B) Don't understand the art of oratory/public speaking and the talent necessary to learn the skill.
C) Consistently take the contrary position on most debatable questions.
D) Don't understand economics.
E) All of the above.

Clearly, it's E. If you want velvety throat oratory, look at Hillary Clinton. Her speeches were almost always all about her, and pulling out manipulative anecdotes. Obama is inspiring and well spoken. Something lacking in the current president, and a quality necessary in all of the best Presidents, from Washington to Jefferson to Madison to Lincoln to TR to FDR to JFK to Reagan to Clinton.

People with the gift for oratory are not always great leaders, but all great leaders are gifted orators.

Also, what I found most refreshing about Obama's speech last night was that so much of the material he used in "specifics" were right out of The Audacity of Hope, further proving that all claims (read: smears) that Obama is never specific are levied by the illiterate or purposefully ignorant.

Yeah, Hitler was an excellent orator...he ran on a platform of change as well. The fact that someone is well spoken does not say anything about thier leadership qualities. Whether you like George Bush or not he has proven himself to be a good leader. He has pushed through nearly every piece of legislation he has wanted. The good thing about a person that sucks as a public speaker is that you can almost always tell when they are lying to you. A good public speaker is nothing more than a bullsh*t artist. The best thing about Obama wining the nomination is that he beat Hillary using Bills play book...A warm smile, make you feel like he actually gives a damn and be able to tear up on command. Obama is Bill Clinton in a brown wrapper.

Bush has also killed the country. A good leader doesn't kill the thing he leads. -_-

HMM, thats funny, I didnt see that story on CNN. Where did you come up with that? OH, damn, I bet it was the last airing of NPR before we all shut our lights off and crawl into our bomb shelters...

nomaddab wrote:Yeah, Hitler was an excellent orator...he ran on a platform of change as well. The fact that someone is well spoken does not say anything about thier leadership qualities. Whether you like George Bush or not he has proven himself to be a good leader. He has pushed through nearly every piece of legislation he has wanted. The good thing about a person that sucks as a public speaker is that you can almost always tell when they are lying to you. A good public speaker is nothing more than a bullsh*t artist. The best thing about Obama wining the nomination is that he beat Hillary using Bills play book...A warm smile, make you feel like he actually gives a damn and be able to tear up on command. Obama is Bill Clinton in a brown wrapper.

Fircoal wrote:

silvanricky wrote:

Iz Man wrote:Lets see if I get this straight.....

pimpdave wrote:In some ways, it is very important. It hearkens back to DuBois' seminal work, The Souls of Black Folk. Obama is an example, a role model that comes along only very rarely. He's a guy every black parent can point to and say "See, if you work really hard and stay out of trouble, someday you could run for President."

So its "very rare" that the "black folk" can find role models in their community? Your point being there are only "very rare" instances in which "black folk" can be described as role models?

pimpdave wrote:And of course, he serves as that example to all people in this great land, but to those black kids who are misguided into thinking their only chances for the peak of success are being a professional athlete or rapper, maybe this historic election can serve as some inspiration to avoid the allure of the Game.

...because Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, J.C. Watts, Robert Woodson, Brian Jones, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, Armstrong Williams, Ken Hamblen, Ezola Foster, Bill Cosby, George S. Schuyler, Glenn C. Loury, and countless other "black folk" who have been very successful in their lives don't count. After all, they may espouse (what some would call) conservative ideals; therefore, they're not down with the struggle........ Uncle Toms, if you will....

pimpdave wrote:Obama knows this. He has known this for years, and that's part of why he's avoided the vices that bring down so many leaders.

By vices you mean shady landscaping deals, or associations with admitted domestic terrorists & black liberation theologians? (despite being half white)

pimpdave wrote:The color of Obama's skin (despite even being half white!) forces him to grasp with a despicable reality everyday, and I can only pray he isn't assassinated because of it.

See list above of prominent, successful black Americans who haven't been assassinated.....

pimpdave wrote:I won't be voting for Obama because he's black, but I'm also not going to refuse to recognize the huge setbacks he's had to overcome in his life either.

Like graduating from Harvard....

pimpdave wrote: Obama's skin color doesn't matter in the literal sense, but thinking abstractly, it's similar to Presidents like Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln suffered a debilitating injury as a child. He was kicked in the eye by a horse, which is why his face grew misshapen. You can see it in photos, but artists correct it in sculptures and paintings. And FDR overcame the debilitating effects of polio.

So being black is like being kicked in the face by a horse, or having polio.......I guess future artistes & sculptures will "whiten" him up a bit....

pimpdave wrote:Obama, just by being the Democratic nominee has proven he was capable of rising above the racism and prejudice very much ingrained in American history and culture, and has done so in a classically American way: by working hard and avoiding vice. Of course, my writing this could be interpreted as saying that race matters, so let me address that head on. It's a catch-22. It's two sides of a coin. There is the "should be" and the "what is". To ignore the facts is as naive as to falsify them. So I'll repeat it. Race doesn't matter in the literal sense, but there is sadly still enough racism both in the world and in the USA to force one to recognize that race does matter.

Its pretty obvious race matters to you.
Obama, despite being half black-folk, has adapted and overcome insurmountable odds. Quite a feat. I guess it was only possible due to his white side..... After all, according to you (and DuBois, I presume), blacks are inherently not capable of success......only in "rare" instances....

pimpdave wrote:I know this post is off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, we should go back to discussing McCain's VP choice.

Yes, lets.
I'm curious as to your take on Sarah Palin being nominated for VP. I'm sure you can come up with all sorts of examples on how she overcame such odds despite being a woman....

OMG..........Totally pwned by Iz Man

ROFL

if that was possible...

but of course anything Iz Man says is invalid.

nomaddab wrote:Yeah, Hitler was an excellent orator...he ran on a platform of change as well.

The fact that someone is well spoken does not say anything about thier leadership qualities.

Whether you like George Bush or not he has proven himself to be a good leader.

He has pushed through nearly every piece of legislation he has wanted.

The good thing about a person that sucks as a public speaker is that you can almost always tell when they are lying to you.