Conquer Club

To sublimer....thank you for writing at length (you're not trying to indoctrinate me are you?) and for posing a series of questions. Religion plays no part in my life whatsoever - I don't care to find religion, nor do I harbour prejudice against those who do. Whilst faith is a good thing, I reserve mine for faith in my family, my self, and to conduct myself to the best of my abilities both at work and (e.g. on CC) at play. If I believe in anything it's that religion breeds intolerance of others of a different faith - something I don't care to stand for. My battles will only ever be fought on a CC map, and the monikers of those I play against have no bearing on my judgment.

Do I have Jewish friends? Yes...my best friend actually, though that was a long time ago when we were in the same country. We still laugh about the first time he came around to my parents' house and my mother, preparing breakfast, offered him a bacon sandwich. So maybe it's a trait I've got from my folks, because I judge people by their actions - not their looks or their beliefs.

I've always been fascinated by the events of WWII - that something of such dreadful proportion could have occured within one generation of 'The war to end all wars'. The holocaust I find particularly distressing because of the inhumanity, and I'm familiar with Yad Vashem and all it does to preserve the memories of those who suffered. Lest we forget.

I regretted the name HermannGoering as soon as I realised my error. He was an overweight, overbearing Nazi who wasn't even particularly good at running the Luftwaffe so I wouldn't want to be associated with him at any price). I would have let the account lapse and started another, but by a twist of fate someone who enjoyed my company and playing style paid for my membership - Christmas 2007. So I'm obviously doing something right (apart from picking names!) and have been fortunate to have made a lot of friends - albeit distant on-line ones - through this web site.

Do we bury the past? Or should we, even if it's by means of some quirky user name on a war-based server, keep the flame burning (you'd know all about that, with your 'ner tamid') so the events of 1939-45 remain forever in the psyche of future generations? Some people have written saying they didn't even know who Goering was - so a little learning goes a long way.

Shalom

HermannGoering wrote:Do I have Jewish friends? Yes...my best friend actually

how did i know that was coming? i was just waiting for it, then BOOM!!! i love when people say stuff like that!! ha!! but seriously, hermann, i think it is very cool that you are trying to have a rational discussion about this, and i applaud you...-0

owen...the 'best friend defence' lol. But it's true, seriously. If I'd said "No, I lost them in Sachsenhausen" that would have been a lie.

And I'm a Simon, with sisters, two of whom are Deborah and Jane, and a circumcized brother called Jonathan. Maybe my folks are hiding something!

Anyway...far too much information.

Oh...and to Benjikat - nice response, thank you. You're not really a c**t. Can I add you to my friends list now, lol.

HermannGoering wrote:Oh...and to Benjikat - nice response, thank you. You're not really a c**t. Can I add you to my friends list now, lol.

You're also both fans of the Waterloo map... I suggest a challenge!

C.

yeti_c wrote:

HermannGoering wrote:Oh...and to Benjikat - nice response, thank you. You're not really a c**t. Can I add you to my friends list now, lol.

You're also both fans of the Waterloo map... I suggest a challenge!

C.

Ha! You've just jogged my memory. I sent a really civil PM to Benjikat challenging her to a game in Waterloo (I noticed she played that map a lot).

Never received the courtesy of a reply. In fact that's what probably alerted her to my name and prompted her to go to the extraordinary length of adding me to her IL

Some people eh!

Anyway mate....I'm up for the challenge. As you can see from my games I'm happy on any map, though I'm not keen on the freestyle or escalating formats favoured by the sharks.

Cheers yeti

HermannGoering wrote:

yeti_c wrote:

HermannGoering wrote:Oh...and to Benjikat - nice response, thank you. You're not really a c**t. Can I add you to my friends list now, lol.

You're also both fans of the Waterloo map... I suggest a challenge!

C.

Ha! You've just jogged my memory. I sent a really civil PM to Benjikat challenging her to a game in Waterloo (I noticed she played that map a lot).

Never received the courtesy of a reply. In fact that's what probably alerted her to my name and prompted her to go to the extraordinary length of adding me to her IL

Some people eh!

Anyway mate....I'm up for the challenge. As you can see from my games I'm happy on any map, though I'm not keen on the freestyle or escalating formats favoured by the sharks.

Cheers yeti

PS - Benjikat is a bloke...

C.

What is the big deal? I am a friend with HermannGoering despite 2 of my granddads been killed fighting the nazi motherfuckers? You have been brainwashed by your american history lessons where WW-II was all about holocaust.

How about banning user named hsjtruman then? The historic figure was clearly a pighead as well ordering the nuclear bombardment of Japan...

Then we have user named Hitler.
I am sure there was HITLER as well but I cannot find him any more

And what will we do wtih 2 dozens of Napoleons, a dozen of Bushes, 4 Stalins etc.

I wish I have chosen something more offensive when I joined. Could I change my use name to
birmingham_city_sucks ?

HermannGoering wrote:

yeti_c wrote:

HermannGoering wrote:Oh...and to Benjikat - nice response, thank you. You're not really a c**t. Can I add you to my friends list now, lol.

You're also both fans of the Waterloo map... I suggest a challenge!

C.

Ha! You've just jogged my memory. I sent a really civil PM to Benjikat challenging her to a game in Waterloo (I noticed she played that map a lot).

Never received the courtesy of a reply. In fact that's what probably alerted her to my name and prompted her to go to the extraordinary length of adding me to her IL

Some people eh!

Anyway mate....I'm up for the challenge. As you can see from my games I'm happy on any map, though I'm not keen on the freestyle or escalating formats favoured by the sharks.

Cheers yeti

I never received that PM - probably already had you on ignore - which was because lt.pie (my regular dubs partner) asked me to join a quads game which already had you in it.

Anyway - PM coming at ya!

And pls cut out the "her"

As a regular doubles partner to Hermann, thought I might add a little comment too.

Whilst I would never condone what the "infamous" character has done in history i would suggest that people in this particular case follow the old cliche of "never judge a book by its cover"

I totally understand why it could cause offence but im sure if I could list a hundred other usernames on here that could do equally the same to other people.

If this guys actions, comments etc reflected his username I would agree that there would be a good arguement for greater offence.

However, having played too many games with this guy than I can remember I can categorically say this isnt the case. In fact totally the opposite - I dont think you could ask for a better natured partner. Always friendly and im quite sure "the Nazis" have never one been brought into conversation.

*when do I get paid for writing this again H?*

Daryth wrote:As a regular doubles partner to Hermann, thought I might add a little comment too.

Whilst I would never condone what the "infamous" character has done in history i would suggest that people in this particular case follow the old cliche of "never judge a book by its cover"

I totally understand why it could cause offence but im sure if I could list a hundred other usernames on here that could do equally the same to other people.

If this guys actions, comments etc reflected his username I would agree that there would be a good arguement for greater offence.

However, having played too many games with this guy than I can remember I can categorically say this isnt the case. In fact totally the opposite - I dont think you could ask for a better natured partner. Always friendly and im quite sure "the Nazis" have never one been brought into conversation.
*when do I get paid for writing this again H?*

you left out the part about your best friend also being jewish...-0

I'm not prejudiced.. some of my best friends are Nazis!

Nothing wrong with being a nazi, I'm in the nazi usergroup, the grammar nazi group, that is. Or, were you talking about the kind that should have metaphorically died out some 60 years ago?

MeDeFe wrote:Nothing wrong with being a nazi, I'm in the nazi usergroup, the grammar nazi group, that is. Or, were you talking about the kind that should have metaphorically died out some 60 years ago?

nah Med.. I was playing with the idea of prejudice, on the back of Owens comment; you know, when people justify their lack of prejudice by saying "well! some of my best friends are Black!", when you know they haven't seen them since school!
I was also playing with the paradox of hating the 'prejudiced'; by hating the prejudiced we become prejudiced ourselves... do we hate ourselves!? no we ignore that we have become what we hate! ... conveniently weeding out what we need to remain focused upon our quest for moral superiority!

It is an important point, not just as a trick whilst debating but also as to the reality of arrogant, righteous fervour!... fervour which sometimes creates evil in the name of good.

Old Russian Joke:

In WW-II, a boy asks a russian soldier: "Give me some bread, please, I am so hungry, my father died in a nazi concentration camp". The soldier, touched by the story feeds the boy and asks: "poor boy, did you father die in a gas chamber?". The boy replies: "no, he fell off a watch-tower"

well name you can use:
Erwin Rommel(fieldmarshal)
Fridrich fon Paulus(fieldmarshal)
Michael Witman(tank killer- commander)
They all very respected German Comanders,also from Allied side.
Also you can take names of german comanders who try to assasinated Hitler.

jiminski wrote:I was playing with the idea of prejudice, on the back of Owens comment; you know, when people justify their lack of prejudice by saying "well! some of my best friends are Black!", when you know they haven't seen them since school!
I was also playing with the paradox of hating the 'prejudiced'; by hating the prejudiced we become prejudiced ourselves... do we hate ourselves!? no we ignore that we have become what we hate! ... conveniently weeding out what we need to remain focused upon our quest for moral superiority!

It is an important point, not just as a trick whilst debating but also as to the reality of arrogant, righteous fervour!... fervour which sometimes creates evil in the name of good.

This is one of the best things I have read on here for a long time.

jiminski wrote:the paradox of hating the 'prejudiced'; by hating the prejudiced we become prejudiced ourselves...

No. Tolerating intolerance would create the real paradox. Or rather: That would be the point, where tolerance became indifference. Real tolerance in my book means "Tolerance for everything, but intolerance". Tolerance is not about being soft and nice and cosy with everybody, but about taking a clear position and standing up against intolerance, prejudices, racism, and so on.

On topic: If I see a user name like HermannGoering (or Erwin Rommel or Hitler or General Franco or ...), and I don´t know anything about the person behind the name, I will just have to assume, that he is a) a Nazi (sympathiser) and/or b) a mindless idiot. I don´t like to spend my free time with people like that in RL, and I don´t see, why I should do different in the Internet / on online gaming sites. So I avoid people like this, where I can (i.e. Ignore List).

ahunda wrote:On topic: If I see a user name like HermannGoering (or Hitler or General Franco or ...), and I don´t know anything about the person behind the name, I will just have to assume, that he is a) a Nazi (sympathiser) and/or b) a mindless idiot. I don´t like to spend my free time with people like that in RL, and I don´t see, why I should do different in the Internet / on online gaming sites. So I avoid people like this, where I can (i.e. Ignore List).

This is also put much more clearly than I was able to before and reflects my feelings too...

Actually, I have made an investigation and found out that CC makes a consistent effort fighting off users registering as Hitler or OsamaBinLaden. This is actually fine as these two fellows represent sets of ideas, which are considered as rather f***ed up by all progressive humankind, i.e., players in CC

It is completely different when you mention HermannGoering or General Franco. The latter was a buddy of Eisenhower and saved Spain from the red plague in 30-s. So what that he was firmly condenmed by EU for multiple violations of human rights? HermannGoering is actually slightly more disgusting as a character, not only becuase of being a fat drug addict. He was number 4 in nazi hierarchi, after Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, but this name is actually not representing of nazism. Should CC ban everything relating to nazis? LOL They should ban all Condoleesas and Rices from registering as well...

qwert wrote:well name you can use:
Fridrich fon Paulus(fieldmarshal)

LOL, dont make me die from laughing. The guy first becomes nazi motherf***er, then loses the most f***ed battle in the history of humankind (Stalingrad), becomes a red squirrel in soviet captivity, comes to Nurnberg in a white shirt as a prosecution witness, and retires to a state pension in DDR. I guess it makes a good career advice how to survive in your career against all the odds but to put him here as a noncontroversial alternative to Goring is at least strange. Do your homework, buddy.

Snorri1234 wrote:

greenoaks wrote:what's offensive about it ?

It's a racist slang-term for asian people.

LMAO.

As far as I'm concerned, Goring has saved the world from Nazism. Imagine what would happen had Hitler assigned an acomplished tactician to lead the Battle of Britain?!

kletka wrote:Should CC ban everything relating to nazis? LOL

You are missing the point. I don't think CC should ban them at all, I am merely asking that my ignoring of those persons who choose such names be respected.

ahunda wrote:

jiminski wrote:the paradox of hating the 'prejudiced'; by hating the prejudiced we become prejudiced ourselves...

No. Tolerating intolerance would create the real paradox. Or rather: That would be the point, where tolerance became indifference. Real tolerance in my book means "Tolerance for everything, but intolerance". Tolerance is not about being soft and nice and cosy with everybody, but about taking a clear position and standing up against intolerance, prejudices, racism, and so on.

you can't really isolate what i said in that one sentence (although it does stand alone and is a truism)

My point went to illustrate the hypocrisies of the belief in any ultimate, undeniable truth.

Does not every religion hold that they have this? Are many wars made up of 2 sides of equally unflinching faith in their righteousness?


But back to thread...
Without in any way intending to demean the abhorrent acts committed by particular figures, we must also remember that we remember the acts of our foes and glorify the actions of our allies.. or at least those foes distant enough to remember without fear.

I think we would find little or no controversy in other 'demonic' characters.
Ok to:
Julius Caesar - Amongst others: killed approximately 1 million Gauls and enslaved a further 1 million - removing around a 3rd of a whole 'civilisation' their leader Vercingetorix was imprisoned for years and ceremonially murdered at the command of the emperor.
Queen Vitoria? - More a figurehead but ruler of the most vast and efficient conquering machine thus-far. Under her the Concentration Camp was invented.
Lord Haig ("The Butcher of the Somme") - Sent hundreds of thousand of men to their deaths in strategically lazy battles of attrition.

and yes these guys are a little in the past so we can remember them whimsically .. hmm so how about :

Harry Truman - an unassuming type you may say.. he ordered the only Atomic-bomb attack in the history of mankind - 220,000 killed in the blink of an eye.. mostly civilian!

We don't even remember old Harry... Why don't we remember? Because history smiles on the victor... and perhaps after all... he was a reluctant murderer.

i am no apologist for Murderous or intellectually aloof rulers who order the deaths of millions without empathy for their passing! But does the taboo of Nazism require the shepherding of our thoughts towards revulsion to this day? Do their names deserve to resonate throughout history like death-knells; whispering the names of their tragic victims?
Do we offer them 'Legend' where infamy would serve with greater loyalty?

As with all sacred, unmentionable places our hushed utterances bang around their empty chasm like the words of a bigamists wife at a wedding ceremony! And our unrequited giggles grow into explosions of mirth!
So too with our imbuement of the forbidden with greater weight.

BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:I am merely asking that my ignoring of those persons who choose such names be respected.

Sure, no prob. It is actually bad for a player to have an offensive username, as this generates negative emotions against them in their games

But also respect my abhorence at any attempts to censure user names