EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[DirtyDishSoap]

EBWOP : In this Regean.

[Charle]

LC's plan might work for D1, but after N1 and a bit more info, surely some of they guys would like to test their own theories based on what comes out here. We only have 3 power roles, we should let them use it the best they can, and also because there are only 3 of them, we should not give scum any clues. Important that scum should be completely in the dark regarding the town power roles, remember they already talk to each other.

[Charle]

And now I am on pmc's scum list just because he knows me, even before I posted anything after confirmation

[Ragian]

I think others have covered how I feel about Loose's plan, so no need to for me. I'll just say what should always be said: 1) Don't give away info to scum in a dumbass attempt "to figure out the setup". It doesn't help town. 2) Speak and accuse. This generates intel in the long run. We can't rely on dumb luck like a cop hitting scum D1.

Also, Vote PMS who is back to purposefully misspelling my name. Go get him, DDS!

Good points all round ragnian.

[Loose Canon]

I'm gonna defend my theory some more whilst considering anything else that might be offered.

If there is a town three shot tracker T3ST that could be any 1 of 15 players, or to scum any 1 of 11 players. So there would essentially be 11 possible tracked players that a T3ST could be tracking N1 as far as scum are concerned.

Let's say T3ST finds nothing worth reporting D2 re N1 tracking but then dies later on. When T3ST is revealed as such we can look back, assume he tracked player X and didn't find anything worth reporting. Which would be useful information for town.

Come on all you naysayers what do you say about that?

[Votanic]

I'm gonna defend my theory some more whilst considering anything else that might be offered.

If there is a town three shot tracker T3ST that could be any 1 of 15 players, or to scum any 1 of 11 players. So there would essentially be 11 possible tracked players that a T3ST could be tracking N1 as far as scum are concerned.

Let's say T3ST finds nothing worth reporting D2 re N1 tracking but then dies later on. When T3ST is revealed as such we can look back, assume he tracked player X and didn't find anything worth reporting. Which would be useful information for town.

Come on all you naysayers what do you say about that?

I say 'nay'. Unvote, Vote LC.
Seriously, at this point all I can figure is LC must thrive on generating negative attention. Is he trying to fill the void left by Sonic's absence?

[Loose Canon]

Scum will not want town to devise any plan that might give town an edge.

Vot you are I think being hypocritical, you have in the past yourself devised plans which have given town an edge.
Is it that this isn't your plan?

Argue against the logic of the plan I have put forward if you can.

If you can't I will wonder if you are just one dimentional or maybe scummy.

[Charle]

There is an up or down side of the LC strategy. Town can benefit from knowing who was targeted and maybe working out who is town.

But if tracker who dies visited doc, and doc saved someone who was targeted by scum, then scum will know who doc is, and town will still be in the dark not knowing anything.

I think the latter is more beneficial towards scum?

[Loose Canon]

Charle a tracker wouldn't reveal they had visited doc if they visit doc.
Town would just know on death of tracker who tracker had visited and had not chosen to disclose the role - therefore indicating innocence of the visited but not power if any.
(Scum already know who all the innocents are.)

But its better to try to find flaws than just saying you don't like the plan.
So keep it coming.

[Ragian]

@LC, the point is not that information shouldn't be brought to the attention of town, but that we need to weigh for or against the information being more beneficial to town or scum.

If a tracker tracks scum that isn't performing NK (or any other action that night), (s)he might think that the tracked is town because the tracked never went anywhere. If the tracker offers this information D2, town might wrongly think that the tracked is town. Also, the tracker would have claimed.

[*Pixar*]

Can I just say, I'm glad LC can't be a third party this game

[Loose Canon]

Pixar we wouldn't be giving any information away.

We would just be storing information as to who a Townie Power role had visited to be revealed when/if that Townie Power player dies.

[Charle]

Charle a tracker wouldn't reveal they had visited doc if they visit doc.
Town would just know on death of tracker who tracker had visited and had not chosen to disclose the role - therefore indicating innocence of the visited but not power if any.
(Scum already know who all the innocents are.)

But its better to try to find flaws than just saying you don't like the plan.
So keep it coming.

Yes you are 100% correct, they will only be able to see who was visited but not what that one's role is. I agree, there is a chance that it might become useful later for town. I just wanted to make sure that scum cannot benefit from this.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Going after LC for his math equation is the same as going after Sonic with his jibber jabber. This seems pretty in line for LC in just about every game he's been in.

[Ragian]

True shit, mate. So, maybe it's beneficial. We do have some people already voting for LC.

[Loose Canon]

Go after me if you want DDS/Ragian.

Better if you went after the equation though.

Only the 3 town power players have to be convinced by it.

I'll play as if they/we are.

Could be saying it is rubbish but going with the play is the way to go.

But again please anyone/everyone
go after the equation if you think it is wrong

[Loose Canon]

Extreme can mafia opt to not try a night kill in this game?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Maybe? Vots more or less the same. Dev came in, mehhed and voted. It's only the beginning, I'm hardly seeing anything of actual merit that sounds the alarm.

I don't even know how you can make a list immediately with the game, that's more or less suspicious to me.

FPed - I'm not going after you. You're not 3p and I'm the SK for 3p.

[DirtyDishSoap]

And I'm not going after your equation either. I made that mistake before.

[Ragian]

Go after me if you want DDS/Ragian.

Better if you went after the equation though.

Only the 3 town power players have to be convinced by it.

I'll play as if they/we are.

Could be saying it is rubbish but going with the play is the way to go.

But again please anyone/everyone
go after the equation if you think it is wrong

I think you're on the wrong track. Hopefully, that doesn't constitute "going after you".

[Extreme Ways]

Extreme can mafia opt to not try a night kill in this game?

No.

[Loose Canon]

Extreme, can mafia only attempt 1 kill per night?

[Kingm]

Extreme, can mafia only attempt 1 kill per night?

I'm just wondering if there might be a mathematical way of devising an optimal pattern of role uses for town.
I observe there are 15 green placings on the matrix, and 15 players in the set up.
It might be possible to predetermine a sequence of what each "power" town role would do each night.
I think it would be complicated and difficult to maintain.
And I'm not sure about it at all.

Just throwing the germs of an idea out there rather than argue myself out of an idea...

Hmm maybe, I think it would be hard, and we would also give away info to the scums if we try to do so.
I looked at the matrix again, and realized that because of all the dupes, 2 dead townies with power roles, would not actually give us the row or column, thats crazy, all 3 need to be dead or known to find the exact right row/column.

I also have a feeling that this might be a hard game for us townies, the few possible power roles does not seem very powerfull at all, but atleast we have 12-3 advantadge to start.

Probably a noob question from me, but if the scum gets 2 goons, does that mean that they get 2 kills every night? Because if thats the case, then we would know after N1 if 2 players wore killed, that the scum also had a roleblocker, since every goon in the matrix has a scum roleblocker in the same row/column.

Mafia has one factional mandatory assigned kill.

So EW responded that to my question that is kind of the same as yours LC, not completly sure what he means by "one factional mandatory assigned kill", since to me all of the scum "power roles" don't have any extra kills options, or maybe I just don't understand the scum power roles?

[Extreme Ways]

Since this could be different from other games(?) I will try to explain it a bit more.

The Mafia night meeting has to decide on a kill. This kill is carried out by a specific member of the mafia team who can be tracked, watched etc. The player who carries out the nightkill can also perform their power role should they have any. This does mean that they might visit two different people in the night.

There is only 1 kill per night in this setup, regardless of the matrix. If no kill is sent in by the mafia team, I will randomly choose a town member to kill but this should never happen given the time people will have to decide on an action.

[Extreme Ways]

Also something I forgot to mention are the role definitions.

Town Jailkeeper here is NOT the same as the jailkeeper from previous game:

The Town Even Night Jailkeeper may use the Jailkeeping ability on even numbered nights (nights 2, 4, 6, 8, etc), protecting the target from death and preventing the target from using their night action. This role cannot self-target, and will not explicitly learn whether or not they successfully protected someone. Players will not be informed that they were jailkept.

I think all other roles are self explanatory.