Conquer Club

Mike1962 wrote:I believe in God. Thor is kind and just. And he does not have all the rules that the christian god has. And speaking of the christian god, why do so many believe, but they all believe something different? Different buildings to pray in. Different days they have to do different things on? Exactly how many christian gods are there? And if there's only one, which of the christian religions are correct?
With Thor, the god of thunder, you only need to worry about one thing....getting your ass out of the rain when all "hell" breaks lose.
Join us.

You got something against Woden? Thor is a rebellious little prick that should be brought to heel.

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

If we say that atheism is the proposition that there is no god (which is sufficient for this discussion), then there is no content in that about how much confidence you assign to this belief. It is simply a proposition, like the proposition that evolution has occurred. Ltrain's position was that people who ascribe to the atheist position typically are more confident in it than people who ascribe to the theist position. I wanted to know why he believed that. But independent of his particular claim, it's certainly possible that on average atheists are more or less confident in their position than theists.

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

An agnostic atheist would be someone who believes we can't say for sure either way, but that it's more likely there is no deity.

That's a common misconception. What you are referring to is called "Strong Atheism". It is only one tiny subset of atheism. In general, atheism simply means a lack of belief in god, regardless of whether that is the result of certainty that there is no god, or uncertainty, or even apathy.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Just so this doesn't get lost on the bottom of page 2.

Meaning no disrespect to this version:

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

If we say that atheism is the proposition that there is no god (which is sufficient for this discussion), then there is no content in that about how much confidence you assign to this belief. It is simply a proposition, like the proposition that evolution has occurred. Ltrain's position was that people who ascribe to the atheist position typically are more confident in it than people who ascribe to the theist position. I wanted to know why he believed that. But independent of his particular claim, it's certainly possible that on average atheists are more or less confident in their position than theists.

And just so it's clear, I don't mean that I disagree with Dukasaur's point, just that I don't want to get into that discussion in my conversation about Ltrain's position.

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

If we say that atheism is the proposition that there is no god (which is sufficient for this discussion), then there is no content in that about how much confidence you assign to this belief.

A stance taken because the stance-taker believes it to be true. A theist believes that there is a deity, an atheist believes that there is none.

Not for nothing guys but the fine details aren't what's at the heart of the issue here...

In other words, you're off on a tangent! Reel it in ploz? I'm not saying it's not fun to hear oneself type but dang, doggs!

Dukasaur wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

An agnostic atheist would be someone who believes we can't say for sure either way, but that it's more likely there is no deity.

That's a common misconception. What you are referring to is called "Strong Atheism". It is only one tiny subset of atheism. In general, atheism simply means a lack of belief in god, regardless of whether that is the result of certainty that there is no god, or uncertainty, or even apathy.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Just so this doesn't get lost on the bottom of page 2.

The reason the word 'agnostic' exists is to differentiate between those two points of view. They are two completely different stances, so lumping them in together is not the most useful way of looking at things. Doing so draws a false equivalency between being an agnostic and being an atheist.

Agnosticism is an absence of belief in both the claim that there is a deity and the claim that there is no deity, not just an absence of belief in the claim that there is a deity.

mrswdk wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

If we say that atheism is the proposition that there is no god (which is sufficient for this discussion), then there is no content in that about how much confidence you assign to this belief.

A stance taken because the stance-taker believes it to be true. A theist believes that there is a deity, an atheist believes that there is none.

a- without
theism- belief in deity.

Atheism at its simplest is "without a belief in a deity." It doesn't assert there is conclusively no god, just a lack of belief. You're thinking of anti-theism, or "strong" atheism in common parlance.

-TG

mrswdk wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

If we say that atheism is the proposition that there is no god (which is sufficient for this discussion), then there is no content in that about how much confidence you assign to this belief.

A stance taken because the stance-taker believes it to be true. A theist believes that there is a deity, an atheist believes that there is none.

Rational belief systems include degrees of belief for propositions, not mere certainty that a statement is true or false. I am less than 100% confident in the statement that there is no god, but more than 0% confident.

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

An agnostic atheist would be someone who believes we can't say for sure either way, but that it's more likely there is no deity.

That's a common misconception. What you are referring to is called "Strong Atheism". It is only one tiny subset of atheism. In general, atheism simply means a lack of belief in god, regardless of whether that is the result of certainty that there is no god, or uncertainty, or even apathy.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Just so this doesn't get lost on the bottom of page 2.

The reason the word 'agnostic' exists is to differentiate between those two points of view. They are two completely different stances, so lumping them in together is not the most useful way of looking at things. Doing so draws a false equivalency between being an agnostic and being an atheist.

Agnosticism is an absence of belief in both the claim that there is a deity and the claim that there is no deity, not just an absence of belief in the claim that there is a deity.

Did you even read the article cited, or are you just tossing off an opinion?

Agnosticism is a broad category, and there is a huge overlap between many types of atheism and many types of agnosticism. Still, the two are not the same thing. Agnosticism is simply the admission that some things are beyond our power to know. What things are beyond our power to know may include the existence of god, but it may include other things as well, and it may exclude the existence of god. For instance, you can be a Christian Agnostic -- certain that the Christian god exists, but unsure which sect interprets His Word correctly. Or, you could be a Hindu Agnostic, believing in the Hindu pantheon, but unsure which specific sect is best. Or you could be an atheist Agnostic, believing that there is probably no god, but that you can't rule it out entirely. All these many beliefs are in the huge, huge gathering place of Agnosticism.

Many atheists are Agnostics, but there are non-Agnostic atheists as well (the Strong Atheists that you described earlier) and there are many, many non-atheistic Agnostics.

this is like watching an horror movie.

you're so close to the important ideas, the important things to ponder, the things that might hold the key!

yet, you all continue arguing about the definitions of concepts. As if they were not in the dictionary.


but i guess that's just my interest.

@Duk within a theological discussion, agnosticism is an expression of one's views on the existence (or lack thereof) of a deity.

I don't really care if some clown has edited the Wikipedia page on Atheism to say something that contradicts what I just said or not.

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

If we say that atheism is the proposition that there is no god (which is sufficient for this discussion), then there is no content in that about how much confidence you assign to this belief. It is simply a proposition, like the proposition that evolution has occurred. Ltrain's position was that people who ascribe to the atheist position typically are more confident in it than people who ascribe to the theist position. I wanted to know why he believed that. But independent of his particular claim, it's certainly possible that on average atheists are more or less confident in their position than theists.

The underlined part is not true at all. Perhaps it is in christian america where an atheist will automathically find confrontations with theists, but in europe, where atheism is more widespread, most atheists don't think about the subject at all. Most of them just live their lives not giving a shit.

I think it's just a psychological reflex for minorities to become more protective of their positions.

mrswdk wrote:@Duk within a theological discussion, agnosticism is an expression of one's views on the existence (or lack thereof) of a deity.

I don't really care if some clown has edited the Wikipedia page on Atheism to say something that contradicts what I just said or not.

If you want to redefine the language, you should first change your name to Ayn Rand and then make sure you write a couple of really good novels to give your ideas some weight. I'm sorry if English is your second language, but the normal everyday definition of atheist is one who lacks faith in a god. Trying to redefine that to mean "one who is certain there is no god" is a religionist's trick to try to make atheists look more extremist than they actually are. If you suspect there might be a god, but you aren't certain enough to declare it as a faith then you are an atheist, one who lacks faith in a god, nothing more, nothing less.

Agnosticism has nothing to say about the existence of god. Agnosticism is simply the idea that some things, which may or may not include the existence of god, are beyond our knowledge. It is simply an admission the human knowledge has limits that we cannot cross. Many agnostics are atheists, many atheists are agnostic, but there are also "Strong" atheists that are not agnostic, and religious agnostics that are not atheists. The two ideas are somewhat related, but they are neither the same, nor mutually exclusive. It's that simple.

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

An agnostic atheist would be someone who believes we can't say for sure either way, but that it's more likely there is no deity.

That's a common misconception. What you are referring to is called "Strong Atheism". It is only one tiny subset of atheism. In general, atheism simply means a lack of belief in god, regardless of whether that is the result of certainty that there is no god, or uncertainty, or even apathy.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

And those are the testes of which god?

notyou2 wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

An agnostic atheist would be someone who believes we can't say for sure either way, but that it's more likely there is no deity.

That's a common misconception. What you are referring to is called "Strong Atheism". It is only one tiny subset of atheism. In general, atheism simply means a lack of belief in god, regardless of whether that is the result of certainty that there is no god, or uncertainty, or even apathy.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

And those are the testes of which god?

Sexist bastard!

That is an oogonium within the womb of the goddess Impala, mother of the demigod Malibu.

So anyways...
Practically speaking, is an atheist a better accountant at the end of the day than a theist or vice versa? Of course not. That being said, which side comes off as being the douchiest? I think this is the real question since who is right or wrong about the existence or lack of existence of a diety doesn't really come into play in any really worthwhile way.

Funkyterrance wrote:So anyways...
Practically speaking, is an atheist a better accountant at the end of the day than a theist or vice versa? Of course not. That being said, which side comes off as being the douchiest? I think this is the real question since who is right or wrong about the existence or lack of existence of a diety doesn't really come into play in any really worthwhile way.

New Hampshireanses are the douchiest by far.

I take that as a high compliment; I've got some Massachusetts native friends who would kill you and all the cannibus plants in your attic for that title!

Ha, who grows weed in the attic.

Funkyterrance wrote:I take that as a high compliment; I've got some Massachusetts native friends who would kill you and all the cannibus plants in your attic for that title!

I have Massachusetts friends too, so there.

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Ltrain wrote:Of course you can be agnostic and atheist. But you can't have a semi religious atheist- again, by definition.

Of course you can. Atheism is just the lack of belief in God.

To be specific, atheism is believing that there are no deities with the same degree of certainty as a theistic person believes there is a deity/are deities.

Ltrain's position was that people who ascribe to the atheist position typically are more confident in it than people who ascribe to the theist position.

No I pretty clearly said they are the same to me.

As for the other stuff like can an atheist be religious, let's not get carried away with these scholarly hypotheticals. If I'm at a dinner party and someone forces into the conversation that they are atheist, or Christian or Muslim whatever and starts talking about it and trying to get other people to weigh in, I'm going to be equally annoyed by any of them. And also if someone is self proclaiming to be atheist, I'm not going to pull up wikipedia and ask them to clarify which subset

Funkyterrance wrote:I take that as a high compliment; I've got some Massachusetts native friends who would kill you and all the cannibus plants in your attic for that title!

I prefer the term Masshole please.

Funkyterrance wrote:I take that as a high compliment; I've got some Massachusetts native friends who would kill you and all the cannibus plants in your attic for that title!

A college student in Nova Scotia was just murdered by another student over 4 pounds of marijuana.

Seriously, who kills someone for 4 lbs of marijuana?????

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/taylor-samson-dalhousie-student-was-murdered-over-drug-rip-police-say-1.3198887