Conquer Club

waauw wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

waauw wrote:The EU should take Snowden in just to say "f*ck you" to the NSA. It's unacceptable that even NATO and top european politicians get spied upon. You don't do this to your allies, especially not the EU with whom the US has cooperated so intensively for so long. This will seriously damage the US image internationally.

"Could"...probably "should". There doesn't seem to be much "upset" over this diplomatically though, as far as I can tell.

This news was first reported by Germany's Der Spiegel, the rest of europe is only getting the news now.

I'm not talking about the public, I'm talking about the politicians. I know from my German friends that a lot of the German citizens are very upset over this...which makes sense, given their views these days of how similar things were done there in the past.

Woodruff wrote:

waauw wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

waauw wrote:The EU should take Snowden in just to say "f*ck you" to the NSA. It's unacceptable that even NATO and top european politicians get spied upon. You don't do this to your allies, especially not the EU with whom the US has cooperated so intensively for so long. This will seriously damage the US image internationally.

"Could"...probably "should". There doesn't seem to be much "upset" over this diplomatically though, as far as I can tell.

This news was first reported by Germany's Der Spiegel, the rest of europe is only getting the news now.

I'm not talking about the public, I'm talking about the politicians. I know from my German friends that a lot of the German citizens are very upset over this...which makes sense, given their views these days of how similar things were done there in the past.

Well by now pretty much every country in europe has reacted.
Several countries don't even want to talk about free trade with the US anymore as long as they don't get any guarantees about diplomatic privacy.

The problem is that you can clearly notice how all of europe doesn't really know what to do about it. America's influence is immense and any strong sanction might cause collateral damage.

My favorite quote coming from Francois Hollande: "the fight against terrorism is not enough of an excuse"

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2013/07/01/01002-20130701ARTFIG00317-espionnage-la-classe-politique-francaise-condamne-les-pratiques-americaines.php

waauw wrote:My favorite quote coming from Francois Hollande: "the fight against terrorism is not enough of an excuse"

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2013/07/01/01002-20130701ARTFIG00317-espionnage-la-classe-politique-francaise-condamne-les-pratiques-americaines.php

So says the man warring in Mali against AQIM (Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb) and the disenfranchised rebellious groups.

Hollande vows to ‘destroy the terrorists’ in Mali intervention
http://www.euronews.com/2013/01/15/holl ... ervention/


Hollande says France will stay in Mali to fight terror
http://en.starafrica.com/news/hollande- ... error.html

It's okay, guys. Most people, according to one new poll, don't mind these pervasive privacy invasion measures. Here's the poll, which was conducted by our government.

Terrorists Terrorists TERRORISTS?

Yes, I am a Patriot and want to stop terrorism at all costs. OR Yes, I love Obama in all his infallibility. To not love him would cause me great pain.
No, I definitely have something to hide.*

*If you responded no, the NSA will find something incriminating against you.

saxitoxin wrote:I was wrong before, the passage I'm thinking of wasn't in Heinlein's Methuselah, it was in Revolt in 2100 ...

"Look, John, a little casual fornication is no threat to the Church - treason and heresy are. It will simply be entered into your dossier and nothing will be said about it - unless they catch you in something really important later, in which case they might use it to hang you instead of preferring the real charges. Old son, they like to have such peccadiloes in the files; it increases security."

Specifically from If this goes On. I suspect you got them mixed up because you envisage the same face for Zebediah Jones and Lazarus Long. Which would be interesting, because I do too.

This is an excellent article/report if you'd like another view of this subject
and well worth the time to read.

Woodruff wrote:

waauw wrote:The EU should take Snowden in just to say "f*ck you" to the NSA. It's unacceptable that even NATO and top european politicians get spied upon. You don't do this to your allies, especially not the EU with whom the US has cooperated so intensively for so long. This will seriously damage the US image internationally.

"Could"...probably "should". There doesn't seem to be much "upset" over this diplomatically though, as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure the Bolivians are happy about their president being detained.

More on how the NSA is tackling the Internet (specifically, certain email providers):

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 ... _comm.html


Another good essay by Shneier, which provides a good summary of events and speculation on trust between the citizens and government:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/31/opinion/s ... index.html


Shneier's blog is a good read--especially if you're into cybersecurity. There's a good fraction of his articles delving into such matters which go way beyond my expertise; however, they are interesting.