The Great Lakes -- [Quenched]

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:47 am

I meant why is Great Lakes worth more than Ontario? In Ontario there are 8 countries, you have to defend 7. In Great Lakes, there are 5 countries to defend 5.

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:10 am

The new map looks great too. Although I am being picky, the area above Thunder Bay should not be named "Frances" (I think you meant Fort Frances anyway), but Fort Frances is on the American border with Minnesota at International Falls. If you want to be accurate, go with Dryden, Kenora or Greenstone.
Looks great though.

dominationnation · Post by **dominationnation** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:39 am

I dont like how there are so many continents with only a bonus of one. Mabey you could combine it with some of the others and make it a bonus of 3

Unit_2 · Post by **Unit_2** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:09 pm

thats better..

MR. Nate · Post by **MR. Nate** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:49 am

This may sound stupid, but is anyone (read, Newbs) going to make confusion if the lakes border one another, because of the bridges? Is there a way to clarify that?

jonnybgood · Post by **jonnybgood** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:03 pm

pittsburgh is spelled with an h at the end, and i think that there should be a region in illinois called urbana, and not springfield. Springfield is just one of the cities located in it.

Sargentgeneral · Post by **Sargentgeneral** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:36 pm

not to spam, but happy to see you representing! Scranton! Yay! i love the office! ok, but the map looks good. i like the idea of the ports attacking, but perhaps you should be more specific about how they can attack...ie, just the lakes or not. Also, i think the grid should go. Great map so far, should just need some tweaking before its in.

Evil Pope · Post by **Evil Pope** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:12 pm

Sargentgeneral wrote:not to spam, but happy to see you representing! Scranton! Yay! i love the office!

It's gone now.. A bit dissapointing

.. We're always excluded.. haha.

fluffybunnykins · Post by **fluffybunnykins** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:06 pm

maybe the lakes could become more powerful by letting them attack any territory they border, rather than just the ports... I mean, if you had some warships in those lakes, you wouldn't only bombard the ports, would you? Though you probably would have to go via a port to launch your own ships against forces holding a lake...
PS it looks beautiful, love the perspective!

casper · Post by **casper** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:20 pm

everywhere116 wrote:I think petoskey should be renamed Mackinac

I second that.

Unit_2 · Post by **Unit_2** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:28 pm

i think that you need to make the names of the bonuses pop-out a little more. there hard to see

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:59 pm

Lovely map. It's such a nice change to see a draft of a map actually look like it has had some effort put into it. As usual though, I have a couple of concerns. :wink:

I really like the perspective, very nice touch. However, I feel that legend perhaps slants away a little too much. Maybe just tone it down a touch.

Minnesota and Wisconsin in the West? It'd be nice to see a bit more variation in the continent borders. There are a few I have trouble identifying, but it is mainly in the West.

As has already been mentioned by a number of others, the port system could use some tweaking.

Overall, a very nice start. I'll have more to say after your next update.

Spockers · Post by **Spockers** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:04 pm

KEYOGI wrote:
I really like the perspective, very nice touch. However, I feel that legend perhaps slants away a little too much. Maybe just tone it down a touch.

My thoughts exactly, however I am having trouble matching the contintents to their key. I cant quite make out their shapes, and the colours are hard to differentiate.

I dont know USA that well, so it makes it hard to know where they should be found.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:49 pm

UPDATE NUMBER 3
Sorry for the long wait. I have had lots of stuff going on in reality.

Here is the next update. I still need to add text to describe the port territories bu the icons of an anchor better distinguish them now. Plus here is what they look like with armies.

The bonus layout is different too. I was thinking of putting the names of the states inside each area. (like the revamp of the middle east map)

Plus what does everyone think about the rivers. Several people have expressed dislike in the fact that I have made rivers bigger than they are in real life. I did this to break up the map. Sort of like the USA map. Idaho cannot attack Oregon on that map but hey can in real life. I was attempting to use real attributes of the region to help with borders and layout. What do you think about the rivers?

Oh. The text for the ports will read something like this. Lakes can attack adjacent lakes and adjacent port territories. Port territories can attack adjacent lakes and territories.

Any help here would be appreciated.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:17 pm

I didn't notice this on the previous image, but your territory names are a little wonky... if you get my meaning. Some letters are higer/lower than others next to them.

I'm not sure I like the new legend. I think the original was fine, it just needed some tweaking. I'm not sold on the colouring and texturing of the lakes either. How they were was ok and I think the texture was less noticeable then.

I think the rivers are ok, if a little uneccessary. Maybe try it without them and see how it looks. I'd like to see some different bridges, the one's you have do the job, I just feel you could come up with something better. :wink:

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:23 pm

Is this map good?

Yes, it is perfect now
18% [ 13 ]
Yes, but needs a little work.
62% [ 45 ]
Yes, but needs a TON of work.
16% [ 12 ]
No, I don't like it!
2% [ 2 ]

Total Votes : 72

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:33 pm

KEYOGI wrote:I didn't notice this on the previous image, but your territory names are a little wonky... if you get my meaning. Some letters are higer/lower than others next to them.

They are all still vector based. SInce I made them small Photoshop for some reason is messing them up. I guess rotating a small font 2 degrees makes it weird. Once the names settle down I will rasterize the layers and fix the text issue.

KEYOGI wrote:I'm not sure I like the new legend. I think the original was fine, it just needed some tweaking. I'm not sold on the colouring and texturing of the lakes either. How they were was ok and I think the texture was less noticeable then.

I like the old legend too but people were saying it was too hard to read. I will make this my next poll question.

I made the lakes different textures so people not from the the USA would be able to tell where they border.

KEYOGI wrote:I think the rivers are ok, if a little uneccessary. Maybe try it without them and see how it looks. I'd like to see some different bridges, the one's you have do the job, I just feel you could come up with something better.

I can eliminate the rivers and see what people think. My concern is that it opens the map up a lot and makes a lot more borders.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:48 pm

WidowMakers wrote:

There's a random number near philadelphia...
Also green's got the game in the bag.
Make the lakes bonus different, it's really unfair.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:49 pm

I like the new key- its simple and direct. A schematic representation instead of a list of names, which can be helpful because you can notice strong and weak areas of the map quite easily. I think its an effective simplification.

I don't like the new lakes very much though. Can't you tell that each lake divides at the narrow parts where there is a bridge crossing? That all seems pretty clear to me, but then again I'm American and I've seen the lakes many times.

As for the ports- your intention is for them to only be able to attack lakes they border correct? So Detroit could only attack Lake Erie (which I guess is why you extended the dark blue above the detroit-windsor bridge). I think a better solution would be to move that bridge so it connects Saginaw and Windsor. That way the bridge crosses exactly at the lake borders as is the case with every other bridge.

Indiana and Illinois are a bit hard to distinguish. Those continents are almost entirely bordered by the river so their outline coloring doesn't stand out very well. Also perhaps its because of the color choices (Brown looks a bit like shadow, and the blue blends with the river). I would either make the color outline for each of those continents a little thicker, or replace them with brighter, more distinct colors. In fact, whenever a river corresponds to a continent border the river reduces the apparent size of the colored band (I'm guessing the river is placed over the real border). So maybe the solution would be to have the coloring start at the river edges instead of the centerline where the border currently is.

joystickgenie · Post by **joystickgenie** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:50 pm

WidowMakers wrote:They are all still vector based. SInce I made them small Photoshop for some reason is messing them up. I guess rotating a small font 2 degrees makes it weird. Once the names settle down I will rasterize the layers and fix the text issue.

A bit off topic but how did you get the names to rotate while still being vector based in photoshop? I have always had to rasterise them before rotating/skewing/bending/modifying them. the only think I can change when they are vector baed in the font, pt size, justification and direction(left right, up down) honestly doing anything vector based in photoshop has been a pain for me(I hate that pen tool).

oh but I am using photoshop 7.0. Is that somthing they added in cs?

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:54 pm

joystickgenie wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:They are all still vector based. SInce I made them small Photoshop for some reason is messing them up. I guess rotating a small font 2 degrees makes it weird. Once the names settle down I will rasterize the layers and fix the text issue.

A bit off topic but how did you get the names to rotate while still being vector based in photoshop? I have always had to rasterise them before rotating/skewing/bending/modifying them. the only think I can change when they are vector baed in the font, pt size, justification and direction(left right, up down) honestly doing anything vector based in photoshop has been a pain for me(I hate that pen tool).

oh but I am using photoshop 7.0. Is that somthing they added in cs?

I have CS2. I don't kno wif this works in 7. Just make a text layer and Crtl+T. This (for me in CS2) puts the transform box around the text and lets me move it.

joystickgenie · Post by **joystickgenie** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:57 pm

WidowMakers wrote:I have CS2. I don't kno wif this works in 7. Just make a text layer and Crtl+T. This (for me in CS2) puts the transform box around the text and lets me move it.

hmm... must be a new feature then, dang leaving things vector while working out the kinks would really save some time. I should look into upgrading.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:59 pm

What if the new legend was made bigger to take up the majority of space in the top-right corner and the title was changed and moved to the bottom-right?

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:36 pm

Hey thanks for taking my comment about Greenstone and Fort Frances

The Detroit-Windsor bridge is there, because it is there in real like. Saiginaw and Windsor don't connect, that's why he made it like that.

Good map. Really looking forward to playing it.

Pro_Snowboarder · Post by **Pro_Snowboarder** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:38 pm

Looking good. However i think Duluth should be a harbor territory.