Conquer Club

This is a great idea. It is so good, it should already be in place.

jefjef wrote:So it's power thing? That's why you oppose it?

The average user has never had a direct say on who gets site medals. You simply cannot ignore this and evaluate this suggestion in a vacuum. I said I am unconvinced for a reason -- because I think there are legitimate reasons why we might want such a framework in place. However, those reasons definitely need to be established before something like this can happen.

Clans and it's leaders do not contribute to CC? We do not volunteer our time to make this an enjoyable community? MANY of us in the clan world, leaders and members alike, contribute greatly to CC's welfare and profit. I find that view rather offensive as I'm sure others will too.

No, if I thought that clans did not contribute to CC then I would also oppose clan achievement medals (I do not). What I oppose is site recognition of contributions to an individual clan, because the average CC user is not particularly helped by, say, player X coming through on a bunch of wars for clan Y. I am entirely for medals that recognize substantial contributions to the clan community at large. If the clan community wants to set up their own internal recognition of individual clan contributions, obviously that's fine. But again, you've blitzed in here with a suggestion that completely ignores the context in which medals are presented. This can be rectified, though -- I hope you will do so.

BTW: This is not a site recognition. It is a clan recognition for it's members. Our friends. CC's customers.

Then keep it that way, informally inside the clan community. If it's not a site recognition, why are you asking the site to recognize it?

Good idea jefjef

Great idea JefJef, I like the idea of a separate new medal so it stands out.

JJ i wouldn't bother even responding to metsfanmax truthfully, he's obviously not in support of this idea. Beings it appears he's the only that's not in support of it, as opposed to the now 4 pages of people that are in support of it, I wouldn't worry about it. Mythology and the CLA are fully in support of this, and hope it goes through.

I love the idea. I know someone who put a shit ton of work into turning our clan around and this would have been a great way to show recognition.

Great idea jefjef, especially the way to implement the idea so won't take 4yrs + to get off the ground. Mets get back in your box, I know your default setting is negative/devils advocate. How about you put aside your jefjef jealously for a while. Give your hate chip a holiday.

Hey TFO can someone get punished for trolling a forum they moderate? Send me a pm with the answer if you get a chance bro.

This should given rise to a clan achievement medal. I think that this suggestion shouldn't just be for this facet of a clan, but for a whole host of clan related achievements, such as overall contributor, most wins during the year, running 3 consecutive clan wars (to name the ideas listed in the thread so far). Obviously, there are many more ideas that can be put forward.

I think though that this should fall under a broader category of "Clan Achievement Medal" which can include other clan aspects.

If this was implemented, it would he a huge jump in the clan world.

peanutsdad wrote:JJ i wouldn't bother even responding to metsfanmax truthfully, he's obviously not in support of this idea. Beings it appears he's the only that's not in support of it, as opposed to the now 4 pages of people that are in support of it, I wouldn't worry about it. Mythology and the CLA are fully in support of this, and hope it goes through.

Support for a suggestion does not mean much if supporters of that suggestion actively ignore cogent criticisms of the suggestion -- because it shows either that people did not fully think through the suggestion, or do not have any desire to fully think it through. If this is indeed a good thing for the site to implement, it should not be hard to address my criticisms -- so why would you instead suggest that someone should lie to and/or ignore me?

sure

Metsfanmax wrote:

peanutsdad wrote:JJ i wouldn't bother even responding to metsfanmax truthfully, he's obviously not in support of this idea. Beings it appears he's the only that's not in support of it, as opposed to the now 4 pages of people that are in support of it, I wouldn't worry about it. Mythology and the CLA are fully in support of this, and hope it goes through.

Support for a suggestion does not mean much if supporters of that suggestion actively ignore cogent criticisms of the suggestion -- because it shows either that people did not fully think through the suggestion, or do not have any desire to fully think it through. If this is indeed a good thing for the site to implement, it should not be hard to address my criticisms -- so why would you instead suggest that someone should lie to and/or ignore me?

Oh get over yourself-it's a great suggestion and obviously getting tons of support so how about you jump on the band wagon and say something like "HEY JJ GREAT SUGGESTION!! I'd love to pass this along to the powers that be but how would we go about doing...blah blah?"

While I support this idea it just will not work with the current CC setup medal wise. We would have to pass all our suggestions to CD's for them to review and then issue out Medals.

i like the idea of new medals. i know many clan members who do outstanding work above and beyond what others do who need to be recognized in some way. i think having every clan able to distribute one may take the importance of what the medal can represent.

Clan A may have 3 people who organize several wars, highly active and always push their clan further. while clan B has 1 person who organized 1 war within the span of that year but was unheard from for the rest of the year. i'm sure i'm confusing but it's late and i'm tired lol. point is that there should be some sort of filter system with a standard bar.

4 U 2 NV wrote:i like the idea of new medals. i know many clan members who do outstanding work above and beyond what others do who need to be recognized in some way. i think having every clan able to distribute one may take the importance of what the medal can represent.

Clan A may have 3 people who organize several wars, highly active and always push their clan further. while clan B has 1 person who organized 1 war within the span of that year but was unheard from for the rest of the year. i'm sure i'm confusing but it's late and i'm tired lol. point is that there should be some sort of filter system with a standard bar.

clans refering candidates to a central authority would create the filter/standard bar

The average user has never had a direct say on who gets site medals. You simply cannot ignore this and evaluate this suggestion in a vacuum. I said I am unconvinced for a reason -- because I think there are legitimate reasons why we might want such a framework in place. However, those reasons definitely need to be established before something like this can happen.

Just because the average user has never had a say on who gets a medal doesn't mean it has to remain that way.

It's easy. CC says yes this is a fantastic idea for our customers. They code in a fancy image of a cool award. Each qualified clan picks a qualified member they, as a clan, wish to acknowledge. The said clans leaders pm a CD with who they wish to receive said award. CD enters award and the recipient receives a pm titled "You have been awarded a medal" and that awards image magically appears on the recipients wall.

It's that easy. Pretty well how clan achievement medals are awarded. (Except the clan leaders have to be involved in the process to submit it).

How could it be so easy? You'll completely disrupt the fabric of the universe!!! IMPOSSIBLE!

No way should something with so much support thats so simple that doesn't circumvent the CD's at all be implimented, that is crazy talk!

Seriously, you need to suggest something much more complicated, with a lot less support before it will be considered.
Oh - and make sure it takes a LOT more work to impliment.

Mets by your own standards this medal is a clan medal,just that each clan gets to decide which individual in the clan gets it.Not all cc members can receive clan achievement medals. So your first argument has defeated itself. It is taking nothing out of the moderators hands,because in the clan achievement medals the clan gets them,so in essence you dont decide who gets them you just hand them out, CC would still hand them out,not the clan leaders.

Bruceswar wrote:While I support this idea it just will not work with the current CC setup medal wise. We would have to pass all our suggestions to CD's for them to review and then issue out Medals.

clan director ChemeFreak is in here supporting this suggestion. Yes they would have to issue them.

I agree with this new award. Will be a great way for each clan to recognize one of their own. A separate medal would be best imo.

jgordon1111 wrote:Mets by your own standards this medal is a clan medal,just that each clan gets to decide which individual in the clan gets it.Not all cc members can receive clan achievement medals. So your first argument has defeated itself. It is taking nothing out of the moderators hands,because in the clan achievement medals the clan gets them,so in essence you dont decide who gets them you just hand them out, CC would still hand them out,not the clan leaders.

that's not quite true, certain criteria still needs to be met and checked for a Clan Achievement medal to be awarded.

some of the reasons suggested for what this could be awarded for i disagree with ie. has won games in clan wars. i also disagree with the limit of 1 per clan for every clan.

a clan could have someone create and maintain an extensive stats database, someone else create and run all clan wars and a third person spend countless hours training up clan members for combat. that's 3 medals right there. a different clan might have no one doing that stuff and so shouldn't be handing out a medal at all.

greenoaks wrote:

jgordon1111 wrote:Mets by your own standards this medal is a clan medal,just that each clan gets to decide which individual in the clan gets it.Not all cc members can receive clan achievement medals. So your first argument has defeated itself. It is taking nothing out of the moderators hands,because in the clan achievement medals the clan gets them,so in essence you dont decide who gets them you just hand them out, CC would still hand them out,not the clan leaders.

that's not quite true, certain criteria still needs to be met and checked for a Clan Achievement medal to be awarded.

some of the reasons suggested for what this could be awarded for i disagree with ie. has won games in clan wars. i also disagree with the limit of 1 per clan for every clan.

a clan could have someone create and maintain an extensive stats database, someone else create and run all clan wars and a third person spend countless hours training up clan members for combat. that's 3 medals right there. a different clan might have no one doing that stuff and so shouldn't be handing out a medal at all.

I suggest 1 per clan per year to keep it as a significant award. Not just another medal. If it isn't restricted everyone will be trying to give everyone a medal just cuz it's a medal. Clans could award to deserving individuals over the course of time.

The clan itself should have to meet certain criteria such as a minimum number of wars fought in the year with a win. The recipient should meet certain criteria such as being in the clan for the year and having participated in a minimum number of wars with a win. That guarantees it's an active clan and an active award recipient.

This is fun! I was thinking that at the end of each year the CDs could pm the leaders of certain clans (perhaps clans that have been "around" for the entire year) and ask them who their award should go to. Then the clans themselves can determine by voting or whatever who in their clan gets the medal. Just a thought.

Issuing medals is not too difficult. I am going to issue one right now to jefjef for this idea

Soon we will be issuing MVP awards for clan wars. I believe that this is starting for any clan war that began after July 1, 2011. We are still nailing down the exact "science" of the award, but to be honest, it is pretty easy to see who the MVP for each clan was once you review the numbers. Every now and then there will be a tough call, but it should be an interesting exercise, none the less.

As far as the theory that this would take medal issuing out of CC's control, I'm not sure that is exactly true. Now, at this point, Masli may say that this is not going to happen or perhaps even admin will step and say we can't issue medals for this purpose. But I think it is a nice way to reward certain members of our clans that may not get all the wins, etc. Also, as indicated previously, I would be happy to head the operation on behalf of the CDs should this get implemented.

I have put a link to this thread in the CD forum and will see if it can gain any traction.

jefjef wrote:Just because the average user has never had a say on who gets a medal doesn't mean it has to remain that way.

Of course not -- I just wish people would recognize that this is an issue instead of simply ignoring it. It's a major paradigm shift in what the site medals mean. I know some people may not care about this philosophical side of it but that doesn't justify some of the comments that have been made!

It's easy. CC says yes this is a fantastic idea for our customers. They code in a fancy image of a cool award. Each qualified clan picks a qualified member they, as a clan, wish to acknowledge. The said clans leaders pm a CD with who they wish to receive said award. CD enters award and the recipient receives a pm titled "You have been awarded a medal" and that awards image magically appears on the recipients wall.

This potentially opens the door to other usergroups, for example, who want to award special medals for special contributions. If we say yes to clans it's just setting a double standard to say that other groups can't determine when people have done something special for their group of friends. I mean, where do you draw the line? The idea behind the site achievements was to recognize contributions to the community at large, so I don't think contributions to exclusive groups of users should be in that domain. I recognize that people like the idea of being able to reward clan members who participate a lot -- but that doesn't mean that this is the only way to recognize it (or even the most appropriate way).

jgordon1111 wrote:Mets by your own standards this medal is a clan medal,just that each clan gets to decide which individual in the clan gets it.Not all cc members can receive clan achievement medals. So your first argument has defeated itself. It is taking nothing out of the moderators hands,because in the clan achievement medals the clan gets them,so in essence you dont decide who gets them you just hand them out, CC would still hand them out,not the clan leaders.

Yes, all CC members can receive clan achievement medals because every member of CC is welcome to join a clan and participate in a war. However, not every CC member can potentially receive FOED's special contribution medal, because not every member is eligible to participate in their clan. Clan war medals are equivalent to tournament medals in that there's a well-defined criterion established by the staff to determine who is eligible for the medal. Not everyone will win a tournament medal in a given tournament (since inevitably some players will win and some will lose), but everyone can (if they play well). The same logic applies to clan wars. This clan special contribution idea is pretty much not related in any substantial qualitative way to the current clan achievement medals.

This potentially opens the door to other usergroups

Clans are NOT usergroups. Stop pulling at straws. That is a ridiculous argument. It's almost as if you are trolling...

jefjef wrote:

This potentially opens the door to other usergroups

Clans are NOT usergroups. Stop pulling at straws. This is a ridiculous statement.

The only reason clans are any different from other usergroups is because CC has formalized their matchups. There's nothing inherently better about them simply because they're exclusive and competitive -- it's just a different subculture on the site. What would your response be to a usergroup that petitioned for special contribution medals? "Sorry, you don't play games as intensely as we do, so contributions to your group don't matter as much?"