Conquer Club

2dimes wrote:

HoustonNutt wrote: What if I believe that I go to a nude beach in Tahiti and have perma-erection?

Your failure to mention beer and pizza makes me think it's not heaven.

Some things don't need to be said; they are naturally implied. For instance, it goes without saying that there would be college football there and that Michigan would win the national championship every year.

HoustonNutt wrote:

Kupo666 wrote:Death only affects the body- whatever the mind thinks, and the soul believes, will happen. If you believe in heaven, you'll go there. If you believe in hell, you'll go there. If you believe in nothingness, that's what will happen.

This is the least plausible explanation I have ever heard. What if I believe that I go to a nude beach in Tahiti and have perma-erection?

What makes it implausible? If you believed in heaven, and that was your heaven, then that's where you would go if you considered yourself to be going to heaven. And how exactly would you know anything about what happens to someone after they die? It's not really possible to predict anything about what happens, so again, what makes my idea implausible?

Kupo666 wrote:

HoustonNutt wrote:

Kupo666 wrote:Death only affects the body- whatever the mind thinks, and the soul believes, will happen. If you believe in heaven, you'll go there. If you believe in hell, you'll go there. If you believe in nothingness, that's what will happen.

This is the least plausible explanation I have ever heard. What if I believe that I go to a nude beach in Tahiti and have perma-erection?

What makes it implausible? If you believed in heaven, and that was your heaven, then that's where you would go if you considered yourself to be going to heaven. And how exactly would you know anything about what happens to someone after they die? It's not really possible to predict anything about what happens, so again, what makes my idea implausible?

First, it's circular. If you believe in heaven and you go to a place similar to what you believed, then you are in heaven. This doesn't really say anything. Second, it completely ignores the alternate possibilities, including a person believing in heaven, dying, and being nothing but worm food. Or a person NOT believing and then be pleasantly (or unpleasantly) surprised upon death.

Basically, your explanation is implausible because (a) it's a pointless, circular bit of sophistry, and (b) instead of using ANY of the dichotomous outcomes (person believes and is right, person believes and is wrong), you circumvent all of them with some Pollyanna bullshit about "whatever you believe is what happens." By your very definition, if someone believed that place X was heaven and another person believed that place X was hell and a third believed that place X didn't even exist, ALL of them would be right. This is impossible. Besides, under any religious rubric, failure to believe in an afterlife does not give one no afterlife; rather, depending on the benevolence of your God, it either condemns the person to a lesser place or does not affect his getting into heaven.

spring1 wrote:...I found that I wanted something to be out there. I wanted a God...I wanted a Heaven...I wanted more...I wanted it desperately and selfishly. I wanted it for me...to help me cope. It's so much easier to believe that there's something better. That death is not THE end, but an end. I found that in moments of intense weakness and vulnerability, I grabbed at the nearest crutch I could find to lean on to make the unreal, yet inevitable easier to bear....

That is why man invented the concepts of god and heaven. It is the ego's way of coming to terms with its own inevitable end.

No priest, rabbi, imam, lama, shaman or guru can do it for you. You have to make your own one-on-one connection with the great mystery.

My view of death?

You breathe in,

You breath out.


That's why I believe it is important to live life to the full, because you don't know which breath will be your last.

2dimes wrote:I like to think of "heaven" or what ever you want to call the happy place as, somewhere you'll be reunited with friends and family you love. I believe in the concept that there's no sickness plenty of great food and drink including beer and wine. I believe the work is light and it will be a place of "things eyes have not seen and ears have not heard and which have not entered the heart of man."

That's it? You believe that Heaven is exactly like Earth, only just SLIGHTY better? This Heaven sounds like my last Friday night. And the Saturday night too. Sunday was pretty bad though. I stayed in bed with a slight cold. Is that what Hell is like?

Maybe I'm a Gnostic.

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
[Jesus said,] "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
- The Gospel of Thomas, verse 113

Death happpens, and you stop living, and that's it. Like Mark Twain said: "I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

HoustonNutt wrote:

Kupo666 wrote:

HoustonNutt wrote:

Kupo666 wrote:Death only affects the body- whatever the mind thinks, and the soul believes, will happen. If you believe in heaven, you'll go there. If you believe in hell, you'll go there. If you believe in nothingness, that's what will happen.

This is the least plausible explanation I have ever heard. What if I believe that I go to a nude beach in Tahiti and have perma-erection?

What makes it implausible? If you believed in heaven, and that was your heaven, then that's where you would go if you considered yourself to be going to heaven. And how exactly would you know anything about what happens to someone after they die? It's not really possible to predict anything about what happens, so again, what makes my idea implausible?

First, it's circular. If you believe in heaven and you go to a place similar to what you believed, then you are in heaven. This doesn't really say anything. Second, it completely ignores the alternate possibilities, including a person believing in heaven, dying, and being nothing but worm food. Or a person NOT believing and then be pleasantly (or unpleasantly) surprised upon death.

Basically, your explanation is implausible because (a) it's a pointless, circular bit of sophistry, and (b) instead of using ANY of the dichotomous outcomes (person believes and is right, person believes and is wrong), you circumvent all of them with some Pollyanna bullshit about "whatever you believe is what happens." By your very definition, if someone believed that place X was heaven and another person believed that place X was hell and a third believed that place X didn't even exist, ALL of them would be right. This is impossible. Besides, under any religious rubric, failure to believe in an afterlife does not give one no afterlife; rather, depending on the benevolence of your God, it either condemns the person to a lesser place or does not affect his getting into heaven.

I'm still confused as to exactly what makes it immpossible... The mind and soul can believe what it wants, and thus cretes the feeling of whatever is believed... Unless you actually thought I meant everything was true, not just acted out by the mind, then I would understand. Besides, quantum physics is roughly based on a same principle, and it is widely accepted. Furthermore, if god exists, and he truly is a perfect being, shouldn't he be able to make the beliefs of the mind and soul true?

The concept of Heaven as a reward for living a good life is a dangerous concept. Example?

Suicide bombers are convinced that by committing murder that they are going to Heaven.
People who bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors are convinced that they are going to Heaven for stopping abortions
People who ring your doorbell at 7 in the morning on a Sunday are convinced that by annoying you while you are trying to sleep that they will go to Heaven.

What I believe is NOT dangerous, the opposite, the bible teaches you to love your nabor as your self and that you are not allowed to kill. If I want to go to heaven I'm not going to kill people.

heavycola wrote:Like Mark Twain said: "I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

I think I'm just being overly pedantic here, heavycola, but it occured to me at work today that this quotation might sound anachronistic. Mark Twain died in 1910, and I'm not entirely sure that the idea the universe was billions of years old was widespread or even proposed by then.

I remember reading Lord Kelvin said Darwin's theory of evolution couldn't be right, because as a physicist, he couldn't propose any form of energy production that would give the Sun more than about 40 million years of life - and presumably no reason to suppose the universe was any older - radioactivity wasn't discovered until 1896...Hmmm - I reckon if Mark Twain really said that, there's a pretty short window of opportunity in which he could have said it...

On the other hand, maybe someone just mistyped "billions" for "millions", and I've wasted all this time thinking about this...

ZawBanjito wrote:

2dimes wrote:I like to think of "heaven" or what ever you want to call the happy place as, somewhere you'll be reunited with friends and family you love. I believe in the concept that there's no sickness plenty of great food and drink including beer and wine.

That's it? You believe that Heaven is exactly like Earth, only just SLIGHTY better? This Heaven sounds like my last Friday night. And the Saturday night too. Sunday was pretty bad though. I stayed in bed with a slight cold. Is that what Hell is like?

Maybe I'm a Gnostic.

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
[Jesus said,] "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
- The Gospel of Thomas, verse 113

Yeah that's it.

Sorry your family and friends suck dude. Mine are awesome!! Maybe your's wont be there and you can hang out with good ones like mine.

I figured since you were ignoring part of what I wrote, I took the liberty of deleting it from the quote.

Thanks for adding the gospel of Thomas quote that fully supports my view.

Have a great week!!!

2dimes wrote:
Sorry your family and friends suck dude. Mine are awesome!! Maybe your's wont be there and you can hang out with good ones like mine.

That's neither what I meant nor literally what I wrote, but it does raise an interesting point... what if your friends and family don't want to see YOU in Heaven? What if you're like, I really liked hanging out with Josh in High School! I hope we can party when we're dead. And Josh is like, f*ck I hope I don't have to hangout with the pussy-ass, Peter, when I'm dead! What happens? Do the angels tell you, "Sorry Peter, but Josh won't hang out with you. He thinks you're a pussy-ass." Or do they CLONE a nice Josh to make you THINK that you're hanging out with your friends and family??

DogDoc have you found anything interesting yet? anyhing that has gotten you thinking?

FWIW, I believe that when you die that's it (I rather like the idea with general anaesthetic and not waking up thing - I for one could use a *really* long sleep ). Dust to Dust and all that. :

i believe you turn intow wormfood after death. i believe it is just non existance after death but it is impossible to imagine non existance.

i believe that every human will believe in afterlive when he/she is getting old enough to see death comming soon. i think this is human nature.

you will know for sure when you are dead. hmm but if you just stop existing you will not be able to think so you won't know after you died. damn now i am stuck in a paradox.

well if there is a afterlive you will know for sure when you died, if there is just nothing you will never know. now i got it

ZawBanjito wrote:

2dimes wrote:
Sorry your family and friends suck dude. Mine are awesome!! Maybe your's wont be there and you can hang out with good ones like mine.

That's neither what I meant nor literally what I wrote, but it does raise an interesting point... what if your friends and family don't want to see YOU in Heaven? What if you're like, I really liked hanging out with Josh in High School! I hope we can party when we're dead. And Josh is like, f*ck I hope I don't have to hangout with the pussy-ass, Peter, when I'm dead! What happens? Do the angels tell you, "Sorry Peter, but Josh won't hang out with you. He thinks you're a pussy-ass." Or do they CLONE a nice Josh to make you THINK that you're hanging out with your friends and family??

Oh well that's simple really. The theatric make up in Heaven is much more advanced than here. They just get an orphan to play the part of Josh. He's really good by the way you're never going to tell even now that you know.

UCAbears wrote:no if u gave your life to god then you would come back and worship him again..

My god, what a pointless existance that would be

I agree with edmund id rather burn then spend existance praying to Idle god.

To answer the question

- We Go Home,we leave our bodies to the worms
Leave our confusion behind, and hopefully get those answer weve been waiting for, then its up to us to ascend to a higher level,stay, or do it again.(No, i wont do it again-Fuck Life)

The1exile wrote:FWIW, I believe that when you die that's it (I rather like the idea with general anaesthetic and not waking up thing - I for one could use a *really* long sleep ). Dust to Dust and all that. :

AMEN

this thought doesnt scare me at all.

what does?
What if the christians are right. and we have to worship God for all eternity? I cant even handle church for an hour. That would be hell!
Does that mean were all going to the same place?

Far beyond the limits of ego.