Conquer Club

Oh I just found that guy who did the study Naps was referencing I believe.
Check this out.

That research is authored by a member of the Family Research Institute which is a faith based organization (religious right).

Do you smell that? It's the researche's credibility melting under the light of truth.

Napoleon Ier wrote:
...heterosexuality is natural, whilst homosexuality is a "reparative" attempt to achieve sexual pleasure when the normal heterosexual outlet proves too threatening...

heheheheheheh that has really tickled me... hehehehehe

but honestly you are living proof that a small amount of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

you're a smart chap Napp! just look at you taking on all comers and doing ok when no one else will argue for your side.

Well there are reasons you are 'almost' alone fighting a brave battle and there are reasons that the poll is not reflected in the arena of debate! Your side is largely unarguable and based upon emotion and not reason.
People know that they hate gays but they can't really say why without airing embarrassing views.

You really are too smart for your views mate.
Either you are a little confused sexually, as most people are in their teen years and you seek to reinforce the prerequisite sexual stance (i mean that with no malice)
Or you have been indoctrinated by a powerful male figure and or family group in a religious nature.

But there is nothing Christian about hating anyone. to beleive that people chose to be gay in some anti-moral quest for sexual gratification is flawed and lacks compassion or intelligence.

To see it as some form of weakness of the flesh is just not fair and lacks the forethought which you must have given it!

let us assume that you are 150% heterosexual, could you willingly ever embark on a physical relationship with another male? I could not personally. Knowing your probable disgust at the idea, how can you judge a person as evil who is obviously made differently to you. they have a diametric tendency to yours; whether it be nature or nurture is a moot point.

There is a logical reason to try to maintain the status quo but even with thousands of years, where cultures have dissuaded same gender sex, it is still prolific! what does this say?

It says, that we, the first animal to have cast off the predominance of instinct in favour of cultural socialisation, has still maintained a large minority with an 'unnatural' inclination!

What does that say? it says to me that it is far from unnatural.

Napoleon Ier wrote:I'm simply arguing that homosexuality is the result of unfortuante psycholgical damage, so in many cases, not a choice. But something that ought to be cured, though no one has right to impse that cure, I am no socialo-fascist.

Why does it need to be cured? When has your life ever been in danger because of homosexuality?

Probably a gay penguin (according to Nap)

The Chosen One wrote:God is not exclusive to the religion you call Christianity, God is not exclusive the religion you call Islam or Muslim. But then none of this is truly about our Creator. It is all about SEX... Beastly the underlying theme in Paul's messages was not about sexuality, it was about RESPECT (or the lack of it in that culture), first for God, then for others and ultimately for one's self.

I beg to differ... here is the scripture that was referenced to..Romans 1:24-32 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
[AMP at Lockman] [The Lockman Foundation] [Amplified at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin],

25Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it).(A)

26For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one,

27And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own [a]bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.

28And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome,

29Until they were filled (permeated and saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, iniquity, grasping and covetous greed, and malice. [They were] full of envy and jealousy, murder, strife, deceit and treachery, ill will and cruel ways. [They were] secret backbiters and gossipers,

30Slanderers, hateful to and hating God, full of insolence, arrogance, [and] boasting; inventors of new forms of evil, disobedient and undutiful to parents.

31[They were] without understanding, conscienceless and faithless, heartless and loveless [and] merciless.

32Though they are fully aware of God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them themselves but approve and applaud others who practice them.



Also What I posted was for the benefit of gays to understand why christians don't want legal marriage. I did not write that, I gave the site where I got it.

Christians will tend to listen to a man of God who is a Dr. rather than a teenage boy who is gay or anybody that is not a believer in the bible.

Christians will believe what the bible says over what any homosexual says.

I posted that site to show some of the basic problems that Christians don't want to happen because of homosexual marriage in their "Tribe" as you put it. Christians have a voice and their opinions and beliefs should be respected as much as any homosexual.

I was trying to show you merely why Christians don't want gay marriage. It's not hatred, its what The bible warns about.

I myself have had premarital sex, lived with a man before marriage and am in no place allowed to Judge the sins of someone else. I can however say that this is what the bible says. I believe gays should have the same rights, but taking away a sacred tradition to fit your own is wrong.

IF you read Romans 2. It talks about Judging others

muy_thaiguy wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:I have never ascribed homosexuality to choice, but to psycholgy.

Without explaining what you mean by that of course.

Simply put, it is a Psychological Disorder, like that of Autism or Depression. The only reasons you may not see it on a list of disorders, is because of a group of homosexuals calling the study of it politically incorrect back in the 70s and 80s.

I am probably the only REAL psychologist among you and that is the biggest bunch of horseshit I have ever read.....did you know that in the 1930's marriage outside of one's "pure" race was considered a form of mental illness and/or moral corruption as well? This was a dearly held belief in America as well as Nazi Germany...READ people about eugenics....Do you know that both autism and depression have been found by *validated studies conducted by and through the National Institute of Mental Health to be genetically and biochemically based? I KNOW this stuff because I've helped design and obtain grant funding for some of those studies in autism... damn the more learned some of you try to appear the more your ignorance shows.

PS. What *validated studies means is that the results were replicated in other studies by different scientists. AND some of my work has been published in the New England Journal of Medicine and the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis (just to mention two) so don't f*ck around with psychology, behavior and behavioral conditioning using that as an excuse for your prejudices...own it for what it is ... a belief system that has NO scientific basis and the only moral basis is the one YOU ascribe to it.

The Chosen One wrote:Do you know that both autism and depression have been found by *validated studies conducted by and through the National Institute of Mental Health to be genetically and biochemically based?

We talked about this in one of my classes. Someone made the point that if homosexuality is in fact, genetically based then parents would try to eliminate that genetic factor in order to force the child to be heterosexual. Have you heard about anything like that?

The Chosen One wrote:some of my work has been published in the New England Journal of Medicine and the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis (just to mention two)

Can you give a reference. I would like to read some of it. Which issue(s)?

Beastly wrote:

The Chosen One wrote:God is not exclusive to the religion you call Christianity, God is not exclusive the religion you call Islam or Muslim. But then none of this is truly about our Creator. It is all about SEX... Beastly the underlying theme in Paul's messages was not about sexuality, it was about RESPECT (or the lack of it in that culture), first for God, then for others and ultimately for one's self.

I beg to differ... here is the scripture that was referenced to..Romans 1:24-32 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
[AMP at Lockman] [The Lockman Foundation] [Amplified at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin],

25Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it).(A)

26For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one,

27And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own [a]bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.

28And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome,

29Until they were filled (permeated and saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, iniquity, grasping and covetous greed, and malice. [They were] full of envy and jealousy, murder, strife, deceit and treachery, ill will and cruel ways. [They were] secret backbiters and gossipers,

30Slanderers, hateful to and hating God, full of insolence, arrogance, [and] boasting; inventors of new forms of evil, disobedient and undutiful to parents.

31[They were] without understanding, conscienceless and faithless, heartless and loveless [and] merciless.

32Though they are fully aware of God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them themselves but approve and applaud others who practice them.



Also What I posted was for the benefit of gays to understand why christians don't want legal marriage. I did not write that, I gave the site where I got it.

Christians will tend to listen to a man of God who is a Dr. rather than a teenage boy who is gay or anybody that is not a believer in the bible.

Christians will believe what the bible says over what any homosexual says.

I posted that site to show some of the basic problems that Christians don't want to happen because of homosexual marriage in their "Tribe" as you put it. Christians have a voice and their opinions and beliefs should be respected as much as any homosexual.

I was trying to show you merely why Christians don't want gay marriage. It's not hatred, its what The bible warns about.

I myself have had premarital sex, lived with a man before marriage and am in no place allowed to Judge the sins of someone else. I can however say that this is what the bible says. I believe gays should have the same rights, but taking away a sacred tradition to fit your own is wrong.

IF you read Romans 2. It talks about Judging others

Beastly, my only response to the Scriptural quotes is this question.. Have you read these scriptures in the original language in which it was written? And Beastly I do believe in God and Christ as God Incarnate... I do NOT believe that any human driven religion or other person or person's interpretation of a language which was interpreted from another language which was interpreted from the original writings holds completely true to the intent of a just and loving Creator nor the message intended. I seek a closer personal relationship with our Creator and find more truths in His Creations (nature) than I ever will from that meddled with by man or woman in our oh so limited abilities and pitiful attempts to understand that which we are not capable... "I see through a glass darkly..." Have you read that Scripture? I do not judge you, but I also refuse to be judged by you and others who hide behind these quotes saying you do not judge, but hey you are sinful and wrong and God will punish you, therefore you should be punished by man's law as well.

And I go back to my original theme about RESPECT..if one respects themselves and those around them they will not dishonor themselves by engaging in gluttony, lying, stealing, murder, indiscriminate sex and the list goes on...to me self respect begins with respect and honor to our Creator and Beastly, "God breathed me into my mother's womb" too...just as I am and have been ALL of my earthly life.

The Chosen One wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:I have never ascribed homosexuality to choice, but to psycholgy.

Without explaining what you mean by that of course.

Simply put, it is a Psychological Disorder, like that of Autism or Depression. The only reasons you may not see it on a list of disorders, is because of a group of homosexuals calling the study of it politically incorrect back in the 70s and 80s.

I am probably the only REAL psychologist among you and that is the biggest bunch of horseshit I have ever read.....did you know that in the 1930's marriage outside of one's "pure" race was considered a form of mental illness and/or moral corruption as well? This was a dearly held belief in America as well as Nazi Germany...READ people about eugenics....Do you know that both autism and depression have been found by *validated studies conducted by and through the National Institute of Mental Health to be genetically and biochemically based? I KNOW this stuff because I've helped design and obtain grant funding for some of those studies in autism... damn the more learned some of you try to appear the more your ignorance shows.

PS. What *validated studies means is that the results were replicated in other studies by different scientists. AND some of my work has been published in the New England Journal of Medicine and the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis (just to mention two) so don't f*ck around with psychology, behavior and behavioral conditioning using that as an excuse for your prejudices...own it for what it is ... a belief system that has NO scientific basis and the only moral basis is the one YOU ascribe to it.

You know, it was a nice try, but it's really hard to get these guys to understand how science really works. I tried for a while on the evolution thread (my field is biology), but I don't think anyone really got the point... people just stopped posting. :]

The Chosen One wrote:
Beastly, my only response to the Scriptural quotes is this question.. Have you read these scriptures in the original language in which it was written? And Beastly I do believe in God and Christ as God Incarnate... I do NOT believe that any human driven religion or other person or person's interpretation of a language which was interpreted from another language which was interpreted from the original writings holds completely true to the intent of a just and loving Creator nor the message intended. I seek a closer personal relationship with our Creator and find more truths in His Creations (nature) than I ever will from that meddled with by man or woman in our oh so limited abilities and pitiful attempts to understand that which we are not capable... "I see through a glass darkly..." Have you read that Scripture? I do not judge you, but I also refuse to be judged by you and others who hide behind these quotes saying you do not judge, but hey you are sinful and wrong and God will punish you, therefore you should be punished by man's law as well.

And I go back to my original theme about RESPECT..if one respects themselves and those around them they will not dishonor themselves by engaging in gluttony, lying, stealing, murder, indiscriminate sex and the list goes on...to me self respect begins with respect and honor to our Creator and Beastly, "God breathed me into my mother's womb" too...just as I am and have been ALL of my earthly life.

I never said anything about punishing anybody...And I am not hiding behind any quotes, YOU said that the scripture meant one thing, and I was showing you what it says. Put it in whatever language you like, it still says that. Scripture is the reason people do not want To have gay marriage legalized. A civil union is marriage without the religion. A marriage as a symbolic religious symbol of bringing a Man and Woman together binding in front of God and fellow man, is not to be taken lightly. If homosexuals want a civil union they should have it! But not take what is not theirs.

As far as gays being a family and parents, well I say, Family is family no matter the make up. Gay Parents can love, Protect and provide just as well as a straight couple. There are so many children that need homes and Parents.

People should have rights equal, but you have to agree, that IF a person of not a indian race was to go onto a reservation and perform some religious ritual, that is preformed sort of but not the indian way, this would be considered a mean, DISRESPECTFUL act. Maybe even they believe that bad things will happen because of it.

This is how Christians feel. What about their rights, and what about respecting their religion?

I don't care if people are gay or not. I don't care if they have the same rights to tax breaks, and division of property, and all the equal things, but
Christians feel very strong about this issue, and they also should be respected. And saying you Need to have a equal Marriage just to be equal because it's not fair is not a reason for marriage. Life is not fair. I don't get money from the government because I don't have Indian blood in me. I don't get money from the government because I didn't come from another country, like the cubans and Russians and many others.

You as a Psychologist should understand completely about customs and traditions and the makeup of society. Trying to destroy the Sanctity of a Christian Marriage because they don't believe what the bible says is not Respectful at all.

I asked why can't homosexual couples be happy with a civil union? Why not? because it's not fair. Well it's not fair to infringe on a Christian community rights either.

wrote respectfully to you, because I like you! And I enjoy learning. so keep telling me what you think. I do respect your opinion and don't mind learning from you... Oh and I don't believe I am any less sinful as you! I am probably worse!

p.s. I think my 16 yr. old son is either gay or bi. And I love him no matter what.

Neoteny wrote:

The Chosen One wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:I have never ascribed homosexuality to choice, but to psycholgy.

Without explaining what you mean by that of course.

Simply put, it is a Psychological Disorder, like that of Autism or Depression. The only reasons you may not see it on a list of disorders, is because of a group of homosexuals calling the study of it politically incorrect back in the 70s and 80s.

I am probably the only REAL psychologist among you and that is the biggest bunch of horseshit I have ever read.....did you know that in the 1930's marriage outside of one's "pure" race was considered a form of mental illness and/or moral corruption as well? This was a dearly held belief in America as well as Nazi Germany...READ people about eugenics....Do you know that both autism and depression have been found by *validated studies conducted by and through the National Institute of Mental Health to be genetically and biochemically based? I KNOW this stuff because I've helped design and obtain grant funding for some of those studies in autism... damn the more learned some of you try to appear the more your ignorance shows.

PS. What *validated studies means is that the results were replicated in other studies by different scientists. AND some of my work has been published in the New England Journal of Medicine and the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis (just to mention two) so don't f*ck around with psychology, behavior and behavioral conditioning using that as an excuse for your prejudices...own it for what it is ... a belief system that has NO scientific basis and the only moral basis is the one YOU ascribe to it.

You know, it was a nice try, but it's really hard to get these guys to understand how science really works. I tried for a while on the evolution thread (my field is biology), but I don't think anyone really got the point... people just stopped posting. :]

oh you're the one who single handed stopped the 300 page evolution thread.. there was so much more to be said too

Beastly wrote:

The Chosen One wrote:
Beastly, my only response to the Scriptural quotes is this question.. Have you read these scriptures in the original language in which it was written? And Beastly I do believe in God and Christ as God Incarnate... I do NOT believe that any human driven religion or other person or person's interpretation of a language which was interpreted from another language which was interpreted from the original writings holds completely true to the intent of a just and loving Creator nor the message intended. I seek a closer personal relationship with our Creator and find more truths in His Creations (nature) than I ever will from that meddled with by man or woman in our oh so limited abilities and pitiful attempts to understand that which we are not capable... "I see through a glass darkly..." Have you read that Scripture? I do not judge you, but I also refuse to be judged by you and others who hide behind these quotes saying you do not judge, but hey you are sinful and wrong and God will punish you, therefore you should be punished by man's law as well.

And I go back to my original theme about RESPECT..if one respects themselves and those around them they will not dishonor themselves by engaging in gluttony, lying, stealing, murder, indiscriminate sex and the list goes on...to me self respect begins with respect and honor to our Creator and Beastly, "God breathed me into my mother's womb" too...just as I am and have been ALL of my earthly life.

I never said anything about punishing anybody...And I am not hiding behind any quotes, YOU said that the scripture meant one thing, and I was showing you what it says. Put it in whatever language you like, it still says that. Scripture is the reason people do not want To have gay marriage legalized. A civil union is marriage without the religion. A marriage as a symbolic religious symbol of bringing a Man and Woman together binding in front of God and fellow man, is not to be taken lightly. If homosexuals want a civil union they should have it! But not take what is not theirs.

As far as gays being a family and parents, well I say, Family is family no matter the make up. Gay Parents can love, Protect and provide just as well as a straight couple. There are so many children that need homes and Parents.

People should have rights equal, but you have to agree, that IF a person of not a indian race was to go onto a reservation and perform some religious ritual, that is preformed sort of but not the indian way, this would be considered a mean, DISRESPECTFUL act. Maybe even they believe that bad things will happen because of it.

This is how Christians feel. What about their rights, and what about respecting their religion?

I don't care if people are gay or not. I don't care if they have the same rights to tax breaks, and division of property, and all the equal things, but
Christians feel very strong about this issue, and they also should be respected. And saying you Need to have a equal Marriage just to be equal because it's not fair is not a reason for marriage. Life is not fair. I don't get money from the government because I don't have Indian blood in me. I don't get money from the government because I didn't come from another country, like the cubans and Russians and many others.

You as a Psychologist should understand completely about customs and traditions and the makeup of society. Trying to destroy the Sanctity of a Christian Marriage because they don't believe what the bible says is not Respectful at all.

I asked why can't homosexual couples be happy with a civil union? Why not? because it's not fair. Well it's not fair to infringe on a Christian community rights either.

wrote respectfully to you, because I like you! And I enjoy learning. so keep telling me what you think. I do respect your opinion and don't mind learning from you... Oh and I don't believe I am any less sinful as you! I am probably worse!

p.s. I think my 16 yr. old son is either gay or bi. And I love him no matter what.

Why do you refer to Christian marriages, why would a gay marriage specificaly infringe on Christian rights ? Where do Muslim,Hindu,Budhist,Jewish marriages fit in to your equation ? Also Im an atheist but will probably wish to get married one day, not for any religious reason but because of the tradition, should I be excluded ?

Ha! I wish I could get credit for killing a three hundred page thread. The one I'm still spamming hasn't even hit a hundred yet...

comic boy wrote:

Beastly wrote:

The Chosen One wrote:
Beastly, my only response to the Scriptural quotes is this question.. Have you read these scriptures in the original language in which it was written? And Beastly I do believe in God and Christ as God Incarnate... I do NOT believe that any human driven religion or other person or person's interpretation of a language which was interpreted from another language which was interpreted from the original writings holds completely true to the intent of a just and loving Creator nor the message intended. I seek a closer personal relationship with our Creator and find more truths in His Creations (nature) than I ever will from that meddled with by man or woman in our oh so limited abilities and pitiful attempts to understand that which we are not capable... "I see through a glass darkly..." Have you read that Scripture? I do not judge you, but I also refuse to be judged by you and others who hide behind these quotes saying you do not judge, but hey you are sinful and wrong and God will punish you, therefore you should be punished by man's law as well.

And I go back to my original theme about RESPECT..if one respects themselves and those around them they will not dishonor themselves by engaging in gluttony, lying, stealing, murder, indiscriminate sex and the list goes on...to me self respect begins with respect and honor to our Creator and Beastly, "God breathed me into my mother's womb" too...just as I am and have been ALL of my earthly life.

I never said anything about punishing anybody...And I am not hiding behind any quotes, YOU said that the scripture meant one thing, and I was showing you what it says. Put it in whatever language you like, it still says that. Scripture is the reason people do not want To have gay marriage legalized. A civil union is marriage without the religion. A marriage as a symbolic religious symbol of bringing a Man and Woman together binding in front of God and fellow man, is not to be taken lightly. If homosexuals want a civil union they should have it! But not take what is not theirs.

As far as gays being a family and parents, well I say, Family is family no matter the make up. Gay Parents can love, Protect and provide just as well as a straight couple. There are so many children that need homes and Parents.

People should have rights equal, but you have to agree, that IF a person of not a indian race was to go onto a reservation and perform some religious ritual, that is preformed sort of but not the indian way, this would be considered a mean, DISRESPECTFUL act. Maybe even they believe that bad things will happen because of it.

This is how Christians feel. What about their rights, and what about respecting their religion?

I don't care if people are gay or not. I don't care if they have the same rights to tax breaks, and division of property, and all the equal things, but
Christians feel very strong about this issue, and they also should be respected. And saying you Need to have a equal Marriage just to be equal because it's not fair is not a reason for marriage. Life is not fair. I don't get money from the government because I don't have Indian blood in me. I don't get money from the government because I didn't come from another country, like the cubans and Russians and many others.

You as a Psychologist should understand completely about customs and traditions and the makeup of society. Trying to destroy the Sanctity of a Christian Marriage because they don't believe what the bible says is not Respectful at all.

I asked why can't homosexual couples be happy with a civil union? Why not? because it's not fair. Well it's not fair to infringe on a Christian community rights either.

wrote respectfully to you, because I like you! And I enjoy learning. so keep telling me what you think. I do respect your opinion and don't mind learning from you... Oh and I don't believe I am any less sinful as you! I am probably worse!

p.s. I think my 16 yr. old son is either gay or bi. And I love him no matter what.

Why do you refer to Christian marriages, why would a gay marriage specificaly infringe on Christian rights ? Where do Muslim,Hindu,Budhist,Jewish marriages fit in to your equation ? Also Im an atheist but will probably wish to get married one day, not for any religious reason but because of the tradition, should I be excluded ?

Well said. I was thinking up a half page response and you did it quite nicely. Whose rights are being infringed here? Because we are talking about government here, these groups should not be treated one over the other. As long as marriage is a legal occurance, the government cannot (well, should not) give one group more than they give others.

Beastly- I'm not sure whether you're objecting to gay marriage, or to gay marriage in Christian churches.

Better posters than I have noted that marriage is allowed and acknowledged by most Christians when performed between members of other religions. That would go against the traditional Christian view of a union recognized before God in many cases. The union would be performed and pledged to a different deity, set of deities, or under other religious principals.

If you are objecting to gay marriage only within the grounds of a Christian place of worship, then you might have a stronger position. Most would not support Hindus having the right to perform Hindu ceremonies in a church against the views of its congregation. That would seem to be what your Indian (Native American, right?) analogy implies. I don't think that it's really what people are seeking here. Equality for equalities sake is always worth fighting for. Separate but equal is never equal at all.

Anyway, not all Christians object to gay marriage (a small number, of course, but it's not universal). Should churches that support gay marriage be allowed to follow their own relationship with God and scripture and perform such ceremonies, or should they be seen as heretical, or non-Christian?

I note that there is a wiki article to parallel your own on the blessings of gay unions. Here

Actually I am not sure. I haven't even voted in this poll.

I just see both sides mostly, except I am leaning more towards the not, because I don't understand why gays aren't satisfied with a legal and binding civil union that won't make a issue for religious sects.

However, I have always been the type to stick up for the underdog, I know If I had any kind of issue that made me different than a religious belief I wouldn't want to be treated differently.

But I don't understand how a civil union leaving out the religious aspects of a religious matrimony is going to hurt anybody. I see it as more of a fight. Like a gay person is feeling like it's not fair. Living in a community there is always going to be things that aren't fair. I don't think it's fair that Alcohol is legal, and Pot isn't. I don't think it's fair to have to pay for a marriage License. But I have to live by Society's rules. Society rules are made by the majority vote here in America.

And I am not saying anybody is going to hell or not. I am saying that if Christians feel it is very important to keep their holy rituals sacred and not including gay marriage that should be respected also.

I also believe that when Jesus was here, the only people that really made him Angry were the ones that were making all the rules, being judgmental and hypocritical and having religion for money making. Not the sinners. He told the sinners they were forgiven and to go and sin no more. He took the world as it was, and not as he would have it.

I don't like how If Christians disagree with homosexual lifestyles that they come under attack just because they stay strong in their beliefs and hold on to them.

Beastly wrote:But I don't understand how a civil union leaving out the religious aspects of a religious matrimony is going to hurt anybody. I see it as more of a fight. Like a gay person is feeling like it's not fair.

What about gays who are religious and want to be married with the blessing of whatever their deity is?
There is no reason why they should be treated differently from any other religious group, is there?

Beastly wrote:But I don't understand how a civil union leaving out the religious aspects of a religious matrimony is going to hurt anybody. I see it as more of a fight. Like a gay person is feeling like it's not fair. Living in a community there is always going to be things that aren't fair. I don't think it's fair that Alcohol is legal, and Pot isn't. I don't think it's fair to have to pay for a marriage License. But I have to live by Society's rules. Society rules are made by the majority vote here in America.

Yeah, but the difference is that it isn't fair for one group in society. Pot is illegal for everybody, everybody has to pay for a marriage license, and so on.

And a civil marriage is also leaving out the religious aspects of a religious matrimony.

Beastly wrote:I asked why can't homosexual couples be happy with a civil union? Why not? because it's not fair. Well it's not fair to infringe on a Christian community rights either.

Oh, sorry your Christian community rights prevents you from accepting that the gays are gays and are not changing anytime soon.

We already went over this, civil unions, if they are identical to marriage, must be called marriage, since separate cannot be equal in this country. I really do not see why your religion must be the only thing standing in the way of happiness for millions of homosexuals nationwide.

CoffeeCream wrote:
We talked about this in one of my classes. Someone made the point that if homosexuality is in fact, genetically based then parents would try to eliminate that genetic factor in order to force the child to be heterosexual. Have you heard about anything like that?

What do you mean? Like parents giving their kids meds to make them heterosexuals?

Snorri1234 wrote:

CoffeeCream wrote:
We talked about this in one of my classes. Someone made the point that if homosexuality is in fact, genetically based then parents would try to eliminate that genetic factor in order to force the child to be heterosexual. Have you heard about anything like that?

What do you mean? Like parents giving their kids meds to make them heterosexuals?

I think he means making parents give abortions to children if they find out they are gay inside the womb. Make sense?

unriggable wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

CoffeeCream wrote:
We talked about this in one of my classes. Someone made the point that if homosexuality is in fact, genetically based then parents would try to eliminate that genetic factor in order to force the child to be heterosexual. Have you heard about anything like that?

What do you mean? Like parents giving their kids meds to make them heterosexuals?

I think he means making parents give abortions to children if they find out they are gay inside the womb. Make sense?

I thought it was more along of the lines of tinkering with the baby's genes to make it less likely to become gay. And more intelligent and faster and such. Of course, not achievable yet, but it's only a matter of time.

A question for you beastly.

How would you view a female to male transsexual wishing to be marred to a man in church ,would you consider the transsexual to still be female ?
or male ?

and where do transsexuals that are gay fit in to your churches as one would have stared of in the foamer gender is this still a heterosexual relationships
or a homosexual one ?