Conquer Club

jusplay4fun wrote:Having OPEN borders is one of many such problems.

The borders were never open.

A bit porous, to be sure, but always heavily restricted.

I can’t get through the novel-sized quotes and links.

Jesus Christ… just make your Fucking Point!
A link or a few quotes fine… but you just love to copy & paste!

First, you are WRONG: I did not try to frame this one person as representative of ALL immigrants, illegal or legal. Duk tried that a while back and I CLEARLY and COGENTLY refuted that false allegation.

Yes you did. Because you sure as hell didn't even try to say otherwise. Instead, you threw out a HUGE and WRONG generalization onto people that are undocumented here. Nevermind how many different countries and backrounds there are among them.

Second of all, you finally offer more than one incendiary (very controversial) idea and more than one sentence; hence you were lobbing Molotov Cocktails.

I provided actual evidence. You provided unfounded accusations.

Third, even if you do not agree with or even LIKE my basic tenet, you can easily see that I support many of my notions (and posts, especially recently in this thread) with LOTS of EVIDENCE, support, quotes, abd ideas and words of others. And you have offered LITTLE such support, as I recall. Hence, you lob Molotov Cocktails.

Once again, you did not. You provided, at best, mere accusations, and at worse, down right slander and bigotry. I provided a link that actually covers the case in question with real facts. You only provided sensationalist headlines, lies, and speculation.

Deportation of Illegal Immigrants, the main thrust of this thread NOW, IS and has been a controversial idea.

Congrats, you got one thing right! But deporting a man that was here, and allowed to stay by court order, but not even given a chance to plead his case in court before being shipped to the Central American version of a gulag, is just a few steps from doing similar to American citizens. And no, its NOT just "oh, he's just saying that," because as long as no one deterred him from one of his sayings, he went all in on them. And he's already suggested not only this, but attempting to try and be in office for a 3rd term. Among many other things.

I will add also that Trump is trying to fix many of the problems created by STUPID, short-sighted, and FEEBLE Old Joe Biden. Having OPEN borders is one of many such problems.

Lets see; trying to rename the Gulf of Mexico? I'm sure that must have been top of the problems voters wanted dealt with. Inflation? Somehow, the orange turd thought tariffs, something proven to backfire badly in the past (hell, even Ferris Bueller's Day Off had a scene about it), would be ok. Right when prices were starting to go down THANKS to Biden's policies. Now, there's a minimum of 10% tariffs on every country, including a couple islands inhabited only by penguins, and 141% tariffs on China, when we import MASSIVE amounts of goods from there, and they in turn had bought rare earth minerals. And guess who gets stuck with the real costs? Sure as hell ain't China, its you, me, and all other American citizens having to throw that much more money, in an already tough economy, out.
Oh, did you want to get back into his tax cuts for the obscenely rich? You know, that cost Americans a further $4.1 TRILLION? Never mind the $6 or so trillion from the tariffs, hundreds of millions thrown at Musk and his Doge guys that go by such names as "Big Balls". And that's cost us a ton, and going to hurt even more going forward.
Biden? He began by investing into infrastucture across the country that had otherwise been ignored for years, if not decades. He sent equipment to Ukraine that otherwise would have been destroyed to make room for more up to date equipment, we got to see how effective it is in real combat, we get jobs to people to make the new equipment for us, and he honor the old treaty by helping Ukraine. Trump has been made into an even bigger fool by Putin, after he (Trump) set Zelensky up to embarass him needlessly on national TV. Lets not forget blaming Zelensky and Ukraine as a whole for the war to begin with.
And the border? Biden tried to make it easier for those seeking asylum to plead their case in court, have it reviewed, and then given the results. Trump split up families and sent kids all over the country, and constantly lost track of them.

jimboston wrote:I can’t get through the novel-sized quotes and links.

Jesus Christ… just make your Fucking Point!
A link or a few quotes fine… but you just love to copy & paste!

I did make my point, ALREADY, succinctly; read the TITLE: 7 words.

Besides, what is the matter, jimb? You cannot read more than 3 sentences in one post?

Porous? Open? Does it really matter? There were TOO many Illegals entering the country DAILY under Biden and Kamala, the "Border Czar."

And what about the FOLLY of other Liberal lefty Dems, like Gavin Newsom?

“Newsom Extends Free Healthcare to 700,000 Illegal Immigrants
Despite Record Budget Deficit”

Here are MORE FACTS, just 4 all the lefty liberals out there: (and sorry jimb, that your limited comprehension skills do get so easily overwhelmed.) The facts and massive scope of Biden's follies on border policies and their impact since nearly DAY 1 of the Biden Administration was a BIG SIGN, saying "Come on IN, anyone who can get themselves to the US Mexican border. AND did we talk about all the money the Cartels made as "coyotes"? and did we talk about all the poor immigrants EXPLOITED once they got into the USA?

Under President Biden’s watch, there have been over 8 million migrant
encounters nationwide, 6.7 million of which have been at the Southwest border.
Worse yet, over 1.7 million known gotaways—illegal immigrants who have evaded
Border Patrol— are now living in the interior of the United States without
documentation and without having undergone any vetting by immigration officials.
The serious national security concerns shared by Republicans have fallen on deaf ears,
but maybe Democrats will listen to the men and women at the front lines of the border
crisis.

Via House Oversight and Homeland’s Report:
• “So I think gotaways are a public safety concern, but, as we discussed, I believe
we discussed earlier also potentially a national security concern as well.”
• “[O]ur Sector Intelligence Unit estimates that the weekly revenue for illicit
human smuggling in our sector along, the Del Rio Sector alone, is in excess of
$30 million a week.”
• “We have seen a ris[e] in the number of [Terrorist Screening Data Set] hits, which
is individuals that have a record of potential terrorist ties. And in the last 2 years
we’ve continued to see significantly more."

Via Center Square:
• Former director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Tom Homan
told Congress that President Joe Biden is the only president in U.S. history to
“unsecure the border on purpose.”
• Homan also reiterated what he previously told The Center Square: Biden’s
“open border policies have created the greatest national security crisis since
9/11.”
The dangerous rise in known gotaways, pounds of illicit drugs flowing over the
border—over 50,000lbs of fentanyl since Biden took office, and a significant increase
in potential terrorist apprehensions are all factors that spell out more than just a crisis
at our Southern Border.

Border security is national security. The United States is being invaded, and our
adversaries abroad are taking advantage of a weak President who seems not to
understand his constitutional duty to support a common defense.
According to the House Committee on Homeland Security, in November of 2023, “4,797
Chinese nationals were encountered at the Southwest border. This represents a nearly
800% increase compared to November 2022.”

The New York Times reports that over 24,000 Chinese citizens crossed from Mexico
into the United States in 2023 alone. Additionally, over 35,000 illegal aliens with
criminal convictions were apprehended in FY2023—how many more are among the 1.7
million known gotaways?
These staggering figures should send chills down the spine of every law enforcement
officer in the nation. The Biden Administration is solely responsible for the disastrous
state of our Southern Border.

READ MORE HERE:
https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/ogr_icymi.pdf

I am sure there is much more, but this will suffice for NOW. And I do not want jimb's head to explode.

And tell me again, why Trump GOT elected and won all 7 battle ground states? Was immigration EVEN an issue in the 2024 election?

jusplay4fun wrote:
And what about the FOLLY of other Liberal lefty Dems, like Gavin Newsom?

“Newsom Extends Free Healthcare to 700,000 Illegal Immigrants
Despite Record Budget Deficit”

Not going to talk about Newsom in general, but on this we can be clear.

A state has a responsibility to take care of all the people living within it, regardless of where they came from. Even prisoners on death row have a right to health care as long as they live.

jusplay4fun wrote:and did we talk about all the poor immigrants EXPLOITED once they got into the USA?

They're exploited because they have to hide. If they could declare themselves openly without fear of persecution, they would be exploited a lot less.

I say Give Abrego Garcia due process. I predict that he will be deported (IF brought back) or simply NOT allowed to return to the USA.

As I expected, the Courts are NOW very involved and SCOTUS has rendered at least one decision SO FAR on this man and on at least TWO other deportations matters.

And after offering a perfunctory comment on Gavin Newsom, Duk tries to dismiss MOST of my previous point. Well, I have spent WAY too much time on Abrego Garcia. But since the Dems and Liberals want this illegal citizen, documented spouse/girl friend abuser, and LIKELY gang member their Poster Child for DUE PROCESS, let us continue to discuss Abrego Garcia.

First of all, HE SHOULD have already been deported, but later claimed that he was threatened by gang members living in the country of origin, El Salvador. I will add that there are allegations that he only got married since his other attempts to stay in the USA were not very successful. I have not researched that matter myself; I will thus spare jimb even more POSTS to show what I learned on THAT matter.

And note that we keep arguing over SMALL details while many posters here ignore that BIGGER Picture and the bigger problem of MILLIONS of ILLEGAL Immigrants. They ignore the Porous/Open border under Biden and ignore the sexual exploitation and (for the most part) exploitations of many immigrants.

Let's discuss the (relatively small) matter of a few tattoos on ONE man:

Getting to the TRUTH on this simple matter of TATTOOS on the hand(s) of Kilmar Abrego Garcia is not simple and straightforward. To make matters worse, both sides on this matter CLAIM that the other side have and/or are using altered photos.

Does Kilmar Abrego Garcia Have 'MS-13' Tattooed on His Hand? What We Know

The White House has posted what it considers proof of Kilmar Abrego Garcia's MS-13 gang membership by sharing images of tattoos on his hand.

President Donald Trump said that Garcia has "MS-13 tattooed onto his knuckles," though critics said that the images did not back up his claims and could have been faked.

The Context
Abrego Garcia was arrested in 2019 and accused of being a member of the MS-13 gang, which the Trump administration has designated a foreign terrorist organization. Abrego Garcia denied being a member of the gang, but two judges, in separate rulings, concluded that he was, based on confidential information provided to the court. He was shielded from deportation to El Salvador because he said that he would be targeted by MS-13's gangland rivals.

Abrego Garcia was deported there after being arrested last month in what the Trump administration lawyers said was an "administrative error." His family denies any ties to gangs and Abrego Garcia has no criminal record in the United States, although his wife accused him of domestic violence and obtained a restraining order against him. They have since been reconciled.

What To Know
Following criticism that the deportation of Abrego Garcia was unlawful, Trump posted an image of himself in the Oval Office, holding a picture that the White House said was of Abrego Garcia's hands.

In the image, the left hand has knuckle tattoos of a marijuana leaf, a smiley face, a cross, and a skull, which the Trump administration says are symbols for "M", "S", "1", and "3," respectively. Newsweek was unable to verify these claims.

"This is the hand of the man that the Democrats feel should be brought back to the United States, because he is such 'a fine and innocent person,'" Trump said in a Truth Social post that accompanied the image.

"They said he is not a member of MS-13, even though he's got MS-13 tattooed onto his knuckles, and two Highly Respected Courts found that he was a member of MS-13 and beat up his wife."

(...)
Supporters of the president highlighted that the picture was different to images of Abrego Garcia shared by his wife on social media, with some suggesting that she had edited the tattoos out to garner more sympathy.

Andy Ngo, a pro-Trump journalist, said: "Abrego Garcia's wife, Jennifer Vasquez Sura, has strategically censored her partner's left hand in the photo she uploaded on her TikTok to promote her GoFundMe."

https://www.newsweek.com/kilmar-abrego- ... nd-2061696

and now, GREATEST HITS from my earlier posts that recent posters MUST have missed that simply prove many of their allegations and posts as totally FALSE, myopic, and shows a lack of empathy. I can re-post LOTS more to disprove many such allegations and a FALSE narrative of me. Duk does not want to re-read these posts, I am sure.

Some come here after a LONG HIATUS and think they KNOW so much about this matter and about me and YET are very ignorant of previous discussions, so let me offer a wee bit for the purpose of enlightenment.

Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:27 am
Re: Crisis at the US-Mexico Border
I never doubt the hard-working nature of nearly ALL immigrants. PERIOD. I will add that many immigrants who become citizens are some of the most loyal Americans who sincerely LOVE THIS COUNTRY. THAT IS ALL GREAT...!

My complaint is not about the worker, but against:

1) those who come illegally;

2) the family dependents who are receiving benefits, that I have already outlined. I do not say that they do not deserve the benefits, but that there is a HUGE social and actual financial cost to provide these BENEFITS. Those benefits seem to be GUARANTEED to them, as there is little to be done legally to deny benefits to ILLEGAL immigrants (referred to as "illegal aliens" in the past). We CANNOT pay for such HUGE and GENEROUS benefits to every illegal immigrant. Often those receiving such benefits are children and the wives and mothers.

by jusplay4fun
Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:19 am

I am not against immigration and I am not a xenophobe, so do not try to lump my arguments with those who are. I definitely recognize the value of immigrants, especially those who work hard. I want them SIMPLY to be LEGAL. PERIOD.

by jusplay4fun
Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:27 am

I never doubt the hard-working nature of nearly ALL immigrants. PERIOD. I will add that many immigrants who become citizens are some of the most loyal Americans who sincerely LOVE THIS COUNTRY. THAT IS ALL GREAT...!

My complaint is not about the worker, but against:

1) those who come illegally;

2) the family dependents who are receiving benefits, that I have already outlined.

by jusplay4fun
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:02 pm

You are WRONG again; I do not HATE them. I have MANY at my Church and I and we respect their work. I have seen them work and have worked beside them. They DO put native-born Americans (those born in the USA) to shame when it comes to work. I agree with Duk ON THIS POINT.

jusplay4fun wrote:

jimboston wrote:I can’t get through the novel-sized quotes and links.

Jesus Christ… just make your Fucking Point!
A link or a few quotes fine… but you just love to copy & paste!

Besides, what is the matter, jimb? You cannot read more than 3 sentences in one post?

I have no problem reading long posts that are coherently composed, and make a point.

I just can’t be bothered to even try to get through your posts… because you make no fuckin’ sense!

Dukasaur wrote:
A state has a responsibility to take care of all the people living within it, regardless of where they came from. Even prisoners on death row have a right to health care as long as they live.

I agree with much of what you say Duk, but I disagree with THIS sentiment.

I DO NOT believe the State/Country/Gov’t has a responsibility to “take care of all people living within it”.

I believe the State has a responsibility to create a fair and equitable system that enables all people living within it to take care of themselves. There’s a difference.

-> Obviously minors can’t take care of themselves, so the duty of the State is greater there.
-> People with mental or physical disabilities can’t (often) take care of themselves, so the State has some duty there too… but you can debate what “take care of” means.
-> There are many activities individuals can’t reasonably do… like build roads or protect borders… so the State needs to perform these functions.

If you believe the State is responsible to “take care of all people” you open a can of worms… where does it end?

jimboston wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:
A state has a responsibility to take care of all the people living within it, regardless of where they came from. Even prisoners on death row have a right to health care as long as they live.

I agree with much of what you say Duk, but I disagree with THIS sentiment.

I DO NOT believe the State/Country/Gov’t has a responsibility to “take care of all people living within it”.

I believe the State has a responsibility to create a fair and equitable system that enables all people living within it to take care of themselves. There’s a difference.

-> Obviously minors can’t take care of themselves, so the duty of the State is greater there.
-> People with mental or physical disabilities can’t (often) take care of themselves, so the State has some duty there too… but you can debate what “take care of” means.
-> There are many activities individuals can’t reasonably do… like build roads or protect borders… so the State needs to perform these functions.

If you believe the State is responsible to “take care of all people” you open a can of worms… where does it end?

Well, I wasn't arguing for any specific level of care. Just a general if ... then principle. If the state provides care for its people, then it should provide that to all its people.

I'm aware of the basic logic of your statement. As a matter of natural rights, nobody has a positive right to living, just a negative right to the removal of obstacles from his living.

As a matter of pragmatism, however, places that provide universal healthcare have better health and happiness outcomes. If you're selling iPads, it doesn't matter if 30% of the population can't afford them. But when you're talking about basic medical attention, if 30% of the population can't afford it, you'll have a sick population. So as a pragmatic matter, I think the smart money is on states providing basic universal heathcare.

As a matter of pure morality, however, you're right. There is no specific moral imperative to provide care. Only an imperative that if you provide care to a subset of people with a fancy document, you then should also provide it to those without it.

jimboston wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:

jimboston wrote:I can’t get through the novel-sized quotes and links.

Jesus Christ… just make your Fucking Point!
A link or a few quotes fine… but you just love to copy & paste!

Besides, what is the matter, jimb? You cannot read more than 3 sentences in one post?

I have no problem reading long posts that are coherently composed, and make a point.

I just can’t be bothered to even try to get through your posts… because you make no fuckin’ sense!

JimB AGAIN wants to:

1) focus on minutia;
2) NOT look at the Big Picture;
3) NOT admit that I already DID answer his main concern. Please see below.
4) Also, jimb is myopic in seeing the world and his place in it.

I did make my point, ALREADY, and succinctly; read the TITLE: 7 words.

Democrats who hold no power anywhere in the gov't in 2025... are responsible for continuing the crisis over illegal immigration?

It's succinct, it's completely devoid of logic or awareness of how gov't works but it's def short and to the point.

Step 1. Republicans who control the house propose and immigration bill to address issues like border control and overwhelmed immigration courts, and pass it.
Step 2. Republicans who control the senate make small changes to the bill and pass it. Republican can end the filibuster anytime via the nuclear option if it's needed.
Step 3. The Republican president signs it.

The sad reality is Maga elected officials don't want to govern, they want to break the gov't. Maga voters won't hold them responsible for it either, they will twist themselves into all sorts of pretzels shapes to blame the opposition.

mookiemcgee wrote:Democrats who hold no power anywhere in the gov't in 2025... are responsible for continuing the crisis over illegal immigration?

It's succinct, it's completely devoid of logic or awareness of how gov't works but it's def short and to the point.

Step 1. Republicans who control the house propose and immigration bill to address issues like border control and overwhelmed immigration courts, and pass it.
Step 2. Republicans who control the senate make small changes to the bill and pass it. Republican can end the filibuster anytime via the nuclear option if it's needed.
Step 3. The Republican president signs it.

The sad reality is Maga elected officials don't want to govern, they want to break the gov't. Maga voters won't hold them responsible for it either, they will twist themselves into all sorts of pretzels shapes to blame the opposition.

Hey now! Don't bring common sense to this argument! You're supposed to nod your head and yell, "Praise be to Trump! May his $3 wig stay on his head, his $5 spray on tan last the day, and may his hatred of Spanish speaking immigrants continue forever!"

muy_thaiguy wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:Democrats who hold no power anywhere in the gov't in 2025... are responsible for continuing the crisis over illegal immigration?

It's succinct, it's completely devoid of logic or awareness of how gov't works but it's def short and to the point.

Step 1. Republicans who control the house propose and immigration bill to address issues like border control and overwhelmed immigration courts, and pass it.
Step 2. Republicans who control the senate make small changes to the bill and pass it. Republican can end the filibuster anytime via the nuclear option if it's needed.
Step 3. The Republican president signs it.

The sad reality is Maga elected officials don't want to govern, they want to break the gov't. Maga voters won't hold them responsible for it either, they will twist themselves into all sorts of pretzels shapes to blame the opposition.

Hey now! Don't bring common sense to this argument! You're supposed to nod your head and yell, "Praise be to Trump! May his $3 wig stay on his head, his $5 spray on tan last the day, and may his hatred of Spanish speaking immigrants continue forever!"

muy_thai continues to lob Molotov cocktails.

Mookie fails to realize that it is FALSE that the

Democrats who do indeed hold no power anywhere in the gov't in 2025

Mookie's statements are myopic.

A) the House has a very SLIM margin, so it difficult to PASS ANY legislation. PERIOD.

B) the Senate is 53-47, so that Dems CAN BLOCK many legislative actions since there is NO 60+ majority to cut off filibuster threats. Again, a slim margin.

C) A few Dems go to El Salvador to garner attention for their re-election and for political gain. They call attention TO ONE person, a "Maryland man" who is, with NO denial, an illegal immigrant and who, by ALL likelihood, a member of MS13. He has also had DUE PROCESS already and found to be DUE TO Deportation.

(I heard it was a finding in TWO cases; one put his deportaton on hold because he was threatened by gang members, but this is TEMPORARY and he could have been deported to another nation and not to El Salvador, at least temporarily. This may have been the admission of an "Administrative error" BUT the WH has not clarified this issue, to my knowledge as of today.)

D) Dems use the Courts to slow the deportation of criminals who are also ILLEGAL immigrants. In the last major case I read about, they were successful in denying deportation of some back to Venezuela. There are MANY such court cases, that indeed "continue the Crises over Illegal Immigration."

Dems fail to see the IRONY and unfairness of ILLEGAL immigrants IN HUGE GROUPS who do not follow the legal immigration policy, cheat and jump the line, but NOW we MUST SPEND LOTS OF MONEY in legal expenses and court time to remove them ONE BY ONE? (Perhaps some of those who used Biden's APP did follow SOME sort of LEGAL means, but this is not true of MOST of them who entered under Biden.)

Dems still NOT call the situation of ILLEGAL immigration A CRISES, even today, after Biden ALLOWED MILLIONS of ILLEGALS into the country through "POROUS" borders. Remember that Trump was elected with this VERY ISSUE as a centerpiece for his successful re-election campaign.

Dukasaur wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:Having OPEN borders is one of many such problems.

The borders were never open.

A bit porous, to be sure, but always heavily restricted.

I mean sure there were restrictions. That said…
- They were not always well patrolled.
- The whole catch and release system is/was BS.

60 Minutes did a report last fall… if you go back and watch it you might agree they were OVERLY POROUS.

As an American it was frustrating to see.

There was one particular area they focussed on… a guy had this gaping hole in the wall in his property. Every day car loads of people would get dropped right there on the other side of the border. The property owner tried blocking it up, but that was both illegal and ineffective. The migrants would cross onto his property and camp and leave trash and garbage and (literal) shit everywhere. He reported the issue to Border Patrol but they never did anything. Even when 60 Minutes was there filming the people would get dropped off on the other side and just cross and walk into the USA. MOST of the people crossing at this particular site were NOT poor Central and South Americans… they were Chinese Nationals. Why are they crossing through Mexico!? Clearly they saw that as the easiest path.

jusplay4fun wrote:

jimboston wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:

jimboston wrote:I can’t get through the novel-sized quotes and links.

Jesus Christ… just make your Fucking Point!
A link or a few quotes fine… but you just love to copy & paste!

Besides, what is the matter, jimb? You cannot read more than 3 sentences in one post?

I have no problem reading long posts that are coherently composed, and make a point.

I just can’t be bothered to even try to get through your posts… because you make no fuckin’ sense!

JimB AGAIN wants to:

1) focus on minutia;
2) NOT look at the Big Picture;
3) NOT admit that I already DID answer his main concern. Please see below.
4) Also, jimb is myopic in seeing the world and his place in it.

I did make my point, ALREADY, and succinctly; read the TITLE: 7 words.

Idiot.

Meanwhile the idiots on the Right continue to MISS THE POINT when it comes to the Garcia Case.

1) It’s acknowledged he’s here illegally.
2) It’s acknowledge by the CURRENT Administration they deported him wrongfully.
3) Dems say he “has no record” as if this is PROOF he’s an “upstanding citizen” and so he should be allowed to stay.
4) Repubs say he “has finger tattoos” as if this is PROOF he’s a gang member.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE… NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

A COURT OF LAW has ruled he “was wrongfully deported and should get a full hearing.
PERIOD

There should be no further debate.

It’s not about the guy… it’s about respecting the Constitution and the Separation of Powers!
This is the point… and Republicans under Trump continue to prove they have no respect for these Institutions.
THIS IS A DANGEROUS GAME.

Trump got Venezuela to take all these deportees… the idea that the Venezuelan President couldn’t/wouldn’t this guy if Trump asked is silly. He’s transactional. He 100% would return Garcia if Trump asked. They’re just playing a dumb game to try to “beat the system”. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking complete idiot.

jusplay4fun wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:Democrats who hold no power anywhere in the gov't in 2025... are responsible for continuing the crisis over illegal immigration?

It's succinct, it's completely devoid of logic or awareness of how gov't works but it's def short and to the point.

Step 1. Republicans who control the house propose and immigration bill to address issues like border control and overwhelmed immigration courts, and pass it.
Step 2. Republicans who control the senate make small changes to the bill and pass it. Republican can end the filibuster anytime via the nuclear option if it's needed.
Step 3. The Republican president signs it.

The sad reality is Maga elected officials don't want to govern, they want to break the gov't. Maga voters won't hold them responsible for it either, they will twist themselves into all sorts of pretzels shapes to blame the opposition.

Hey now! Don't bring common sense to this argument! You're supposed to nod your head and yell, "Praise be to Trump! May his $3 wig stay on his head, his $5 spray on tan last the day, and may his hatred of Spanish speaking immigrants continue forever!"

muy_thai continues to lob Molotov cocktails.

Mookie fails to realize that it is FALSE that the

Democrats who do indeed hold no power anywhere in the gov't in 2025

Mookie's statements are myopic.

A) the House has a very SLIM margin, so it difficult to PASS ANY legislation. PERIOD.

B) the Senate is 53-47, so that Dems CAN BLOCK many legislative actions since there is NO 60+ majority to cut off filibuster threats. Again, a slim margin.

C) A few Dems go to El Salvador to garner attention for their re-election and for political gain. They call attention TO ONE person, a "Maryland man" who is, with NO denial, an illegal immigrant and who, by ALL likelihood, a member of MS13. He has also had DUE PROCESS already and found to be DUE TO Deportation.

(I heard it was a finding in TWO cases; one put his deportaton on hold because he was threatened by gang members, but this is TEMPORARY and he could have been deported to another nation and not to El Salvador, at least temporarily. This may have been the admission of an "Administrative error" BUT the WH has not clarified this issue, to my knowledge as of today.)

D) Dems use the Courts to slow the deportation of criminals who are also ILLEGAL immigrants. In the last major case I read about, they were successful in denying deportation of some back to Venezuela. There are MANY such court cases, that indeed "continue the Crises over Illegal Immigration."

Dems fail to see the IRONY and unfairness of ILLEGAL immigrants IN HUGE GROUPS who do not follow the legal immigration policy, cheat and jump the line, but NOW we MUST SPEND LOTS OF MONEY in legal expenses and court time to remove them ONE BY ONE? (Perhaps some of those who used Biden's APP did follow SOME sort of LEGAL means, but this is not true of MOST of them who entered under Biden.)

Dems still NOT call the situation of ILLEGAL immigration A CRISES, even today, after Biden ALLOWED MILLIONS of ILLEGALS into the country through "POROUS" borders. Remember that Trump was elected with this VERY ISSUE as a centerpiece for his successful re-election campaign.

Republicans aren't even trying to pass immigration bills and you are making excuses for them. There was a comprehensive immigration bill that 18 months ago was ready to pass both houses until Trump stopped it, there has been ZERO attempt to pass a new one now with majorities in both houses. Republicans are letting the exectutive attacking the judicial branch while NOT EVEN TRYING TO DO PASS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD RELIEVE THE IMPASS.

A) The house requires a simple majority, I'm sorry that the republicans cant work as a majority to pass a majority bill. MUST BE THE DEMOCRATS FAULT EH?

B) The senate can bypass 60 votes through a simple rules prodedure. They don't even have to end the filibuster, they can simple end the filibuster on a single issue/bill if they want like they did on confirmations a few years ago. They can do this by holding a majority (which they do), they don't even have to pass a majority vote. Besides going that route, there are loads of centrist democrats who were already willing to vote for immigration reform 18 months ago. If this is truly a 'CRISIS' that requires the president to use wartime powers to act on it, which is the position you are defending this whole thread... then stop blaming democrats for republican leadership CHOOSING not to bring forth ANY IMMIGRATION REFORM LEGISLATION.

C) A few democrats who care that the law isn't being obeyed are trying to bring light to the situation... who cares? They have no power in gov't right now. REPUBLICANS HAVE ALL THE POWER AND ARE CHOOSING TO NOT BRING FORTH ANY IMMIGRATION LEGISLATION. Clearly this is the democrats fault again.

D) Dems are not 'using the courts' lol. The opinion I posted a few days ago was a Reagan appointee, not some fringe trans 28yo with green died hair who's stated religion is witchcraft. The courts are doing what courts do, adjudicating existing laws created by Congress and singed into law by the Potus. If you think the laws are wrong and unfair then the remedy is not to call the courts bad, it's too change existing law through new congressional bills and have them singed into law by Potus. Have you not seen school house rock?

IF IT'S SUCH A FUCKING CRISIS THEN MAGA SHOULD USE THE GOV'T THAT THEY HOLD ALL THE POWER IN TO MAKE NEW LAWS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE. THAT IS HOW US GOV'T HAS WORKED FOR 300+ YEARS.

I think, other than one Administrative error, that Trump is managing the immigration crises well. Just as Trump said, we did not need a new law, just a new President.

I do not want to see ALL illegal immigrants deported. The VAST majority are hard-working and family oriented. We need those workers. Most will become good citizens and so will there children. I have little doubt of that. I met a young lady, Hispanic, and fluent in Spanish (and English) at our weekly feeding of the Poor and needy at my Church. She is an engineering student who currently has a GPA of 3.8; her boyfriend is not as fluent in English, but works as a welder, but wants to be a nurse. I told BOTH that we need good engineers, good welders, and good nurses. We need their energy and drive and family values of such people.

I interact often with Hispanics, many who are immigrants. Most I encounter at my Church, but some at the local Food Bank I volunteer at. I do not ask their status, except of one man whom I greatly respect. I wrote a letter on his behalf as he applies for citizenship via a lawyer. He asked my to write the letter over one year ago. I gladly agreed to do so. I check with him once in a while to see how that process is progressing.

I think illegal immigrants who are criminals should be deported as expeditiously as possible following due process.

Hilarious!

Another story about his interactions with minorities, just to prove he is looking after their special interest and is not a racist.

Spoiler

[size=150]...and I thought only Saxi could spin a good tale.[/size]

[/b]

jusplay4fun wrote:I think, other than one Administrative error, that Trump is managing the immigration crises well. Just as Trump said, we did not need a new law, just a new President.

I do not want to see ALL illegal immigrants deported. The VAST majority are hard-working and family oriented. We need those workers. Most will become good citizens and so will there children. I have little doubt of that. I met a young lady, Hispanic, and fluent in Spanish (and English) at our weekly feeding of the Poor and needy at my Church. She is an engineering student who currently has a GPA of 3.8; her boyfriend is not as fluent in English, but works as a welder, but wants to be a nurse. I told BOTH that we need good engineers, good welders, and good nurses. We need their energy and drive and family values of such people.

I interact often with Hispanics, many who are immigrants. Most I encounter at my Church, but some at the local Food Bank I volunteer at. I do not ask their status, except of one man whom I greatly respect. I wrote a letter on his behalf as he applies for citizenship via a lawyer. He asked my to write the letter over one year ago. I gladly agreed to do so. I check with him once in a while to see how that process is progressing.

I think illegal immigrants who are criminals should be deported as expeditiously as possible following due process.

JP, I can accept that you're probably sincere.

Your president, unfortunately, is not.

While you want the deportees to get due process, he does not. Every day he shows a desire to avoid due process at all costs, and only a unanimous Supreme Court decision forced him to have any process at all. Since then, his stooges have done everything they can to avoid the spirit of due process even when they grudgingly apply the letter.

You seem sincere in wanting the good, hardworking migrants to get a chance to become citizens, but he does not. Not a day goes by that we don't hear of some fresh outrage, of some immigrant being snatched up and deported even though he has followed all the rules and been granted asylum, or someone jailed even when he is literally on his way to citizenship court to be sworn in as a citizen, or arrested even after becoming a citizen. The thugs who now run the White House seem interested in degrading and demoralizing all immigrants, legal or otherwise, and cultivating a nationwide state of fear.

Dukasaur wrote:

jusplay4fun wrote:I think, other than one Administrative error, that Trump is managing the immigration crises well. Just as Trump said, we did not need a new law, just a new President.

I do not want to see ALL illegal immigrants deported. The VAST majority are hard-working and family oriented. We need those workers. Most will become good citizens and so will there children. I have little doubt of that. I met a young lady, Hispanic, and fluent in Spanish (and English) at our weekly feeding of the Poor and needy at my Church. She is an engineering student who currently has a GPA of 3.8; her boyfriend is not as fluent in English, but works as a welder, but wants to be a nurse. I told BOTH that we need good engineers, good welders, and good nurses. We need their energy and drive and family values of such people.

I interact often with Hispanics, many who are immigrants. Most I encounter at my Church, but some at the local Food Bank I volunteer at. I do not ask their status, except of one man whom I greatly respect. I wrote a letter on his behalf as he applies for citizenship via a lawyer. He asked my to write the letter over one year ago. I gladly agreed to do so. I check with him once in a while to see how that process is progressing.

I think illegal immigrants who are criminals should be deported as expeditiously as possible following due process.

JP, I can accept that you're probably sincere.

Your president, unfortunately, is not.

While you want the deportees to get due process, he does not. Every day he shows a desire to avoid due process at all costs, and only a unanimous Supreme Court decision forced him to have any process at all. Since then, his stooges have done everything they can to avoid the spirit of due process even when they grudgingly apply the letter.

You seem sincere in wanting the good, hardworking migrants to get a chance to become citizens, but he does not. Not a day goes by that we don't hear of some fresh outrage, of some immigrant being snatched up and deported even though he has followed all the rules and been granted asylum, or someone jailed even when he is literally on his way to citizenship court to be sworn in as a citizen, or arrested even after becoming a citizen. The thugs who now run the White House seem interested in degrading and demoralizing all immigrants, legal or otherwise, and cultivating a nationwide state of fear.

Thanks, Duk. Yes, I am sincere in my feelings about most immigrants being good folks who want to work hard and provide for their families. And yes, among them are a few "bad apples." Those bad apples/Criminals are the ones I want to see deported. I have not heard Trump say that he will stop deportations once he deports most of the bad criminals that he can find. That concerns me, that he will deport many folks that I think SHOULD be allowed to stay.

We need to LAWS passed by Congress on many things: budget and immigration are two very important examples. Use of Executive Orders can only do so much. The Budget beyond the latest continuing resolution needs to be passed. The last I heard, there were some 40 Republicans in the House who want bigger and deeper spending cuts and were thus opposed to the Bill passed by the Senate.

We shall watch and see what happens on immigration (and deportations). We will also watch what happens regardging peace, cuts to the Government, and the Economy and many other issues. I think Trump's handling of tariffs shows that he does respond to criticisms and to what happens, for example to Wall Street and the Bond market.

jimboston wrote:Meanwhile the idiots on the Right continue to MISS THE POINT when it comes to the Garcia Case.

1) It’s acknowledged he’s here illegally.
2) It’s acknowledge by the CURRENT Administration they deported him wrongfully.
3) Dems say he “has no record” as if this is PROOF he’s an “upstanding citizen” and so he should be allowed to stay.
4) Repubs say he “has finger tattoos” as if this is PROOF he’s a gang member.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE… NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

A COURT OF LAW has ruled he “was wrongfully deported and should get a full hearing.
PERIOD

There should be no further debate.

It’s not about the guy… it’s about respecting the Constitution and the Separation of Powers!
This is the point… and Republicans under Trump continue to prove they have no respect for these Institutions.
THIS IS A DANGEROUS GAME.

Trump got Venezuela to take all these deportees… the idea that the Venezuelan President couldn’t/wouldn’t this guy if Trump asked is silly. He’s transactional. He 100% would return Garcia if Trump asked. They’re just playing a dumb game to try to “beat the system”. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking complete idiot.

Abrego Garcia did get a hearing, and in fact, he got TWO. One hearing, thus fulfilling his right to due process, said he should be deported. Another hearing said that he cannot be deported back to El Salvador. JimB continues to ignore THOSE Facts. I have already said that I think that the Administrative error regarding this man is that he was deported to El Salvador. And further, there is no clear legal guidance in this matter on the meaning of the word "facilitate." Again, JimB ignores facts and ignores this part of the DECISION by SCOTUS.

{edit} I just noticed this: another mistake by JimB. It is the President of El Salvador, not Venezuela, that took all these deported criminals and locked them up in one of that nation's prisons. Please do not confuse Latin American nations, as apparently some DOJ lawyer did, who was NOT part of the Courts (i.e., the judicial branch).

60 Minutes - Newsmakers
U.S. sent 238 migrants to Salvadoran mega-prison
60-minutes
By Cecilia Vega
April 6, 2025 / 7:00 PM EDT / CBS News

Three weeks ago, 238 Venezuelan migrants were flown from Texas to a maximum security prison in El Salvador.

That country's president offered to take them and the Trump administration used a law not invoked since World War II to send them -- claiming they are all terrorists and violent gang members.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-recor ... ranscript/

and JimB may have been confused by this bit of news:

El Salvador's president has offered to repatriate 252 Venezuelans deported by the US and imprisoned in his country - if Venezuela releases the same number of political prisoners.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn5xl5ppzr2o

jusplay4fun wrote:

jimboston wrote:Meanwhile the idiots on the Right continue to MISS THE POINT when it comes to the Garcia Case.

1) It’s acknowledged he’s here illegally.
2) It’s acknowledge by the CURRENT Administration they deported him wrongfully.
3) Dems say he “has no record” as if this is PROOF he’s an “upstanding citizen” and so he should be allowed to stay.
4) Repubs say he “has finger tattoos” as if this is PROOF he’s a gang member.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE… NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

A COURT OF LAW has ruled he “was wrongfully deported and should get a full hearing.
PERIOD

There should be no further debate.

It’s not about the guy… it’s about respecting the Constitution and the Separation of Powers!
This is the point… and Republicans under Trump continue to prove they have no respect for these Institutions.
THIS IS A DANGEROUS GAME.

Trump got Venezuela to take all these deportees… the idea that the Venezuelan President couldn’t/wouldn’t this guy if Trump asked is silly. He’s transactional. He 100% would return Garcia if Trump asked. They’re just playing a dumb game to try to “beat the system”. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking complete idiot.

Abrego Garcia did get a hearing, and in fact, he got TWO. One hearing, thus fulfilling his right to due process, said he should be deported. Another hearing said that he cannot be deported back to El Salvador. JimB continues to ignore THOSE Facts. I have already said that I think that the Administrative error regarding this man is that he was deported to El Salvador. And further, there is no clear legal guidance in this matter on the meaning of the word "facilitate." Again, JimB ignores facts and ignores this part of the DECISION by SCOTUS.

I would just like to point out to Jim that in 2019 Ice arrest Garcia OUTSIDE OF A HOME DEPOT WHILE SOLICITING WORK ...THAT'S FOOOOOKING RIGHT JIM, IT WAS OUTSIDE OF A HOME DEPOT, BOOOYAKASHA

And Liberal Dems (AOC, Bernie, those who lob Molotov Cocktails at Teslas, & others) continue to do DUM DEM things:

If he had due process… why does a court say he needs to come back?

If it’s just an “administrative error” why not bring him back and let him have his day in court.

also Venezuela = El Salvador

Same fucking thing… you understood my point… details like this really don’t matter.

You can forgive a President (or his people) who make an “administrative error” and send a guy to a very violent and dangerous prison… but not a guy on the internet who confused Venezuela with El Salvador, and caused no one any harm?