Conquer Club

RedBaron0 wrote:Text is probably fine as it, I do like the italicize look, maybe go a point or 2 bigger?

Unfortunately, enlargening is not an option... space constraints et cetera.

natty_dread wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:OOOps, almost forgot. When you do the glow, make it with a blue tint instead of yellow. Very important to achieve the effect over a blue back.

the glow has no tint, it's white...


edit: and still, if it's not too much to ask, please don't post even modified versions of old versions of my map. If you must show your ideas through modified images, please use the latest version for them, it helps keep us all on the same page.

Oooops, Sorry about that, was not thinking. I also should have gone ahead and just posted a cut down (insert), instead of the whole map.
Will do. I keep forgetting that you do not use photoshop. I use the old 7.0, and it has the glow automaticaly set to a very light yellow tint, off white. But you would never notice it, unless you opened up the settings.

Edit- Basically what you are trying to do in this instance, is, Make the outside edge of the glow not have a crisp line, but rather a fuzzy, gradient, that does not leave a hard edge on the glow. Then, just crank down the opacity to a level that is not noticeable. (or wherever you like).

Oooops, Sorry about that, was not thinking. I also should have gone ahead and just posted a cut down (insert), instead of the whole map.
Will do.

No biggie. For future reference, the latest version can always be found from the first post of the thread, I do a pretty good job of updating it (if I say so myself) so finding the latest shouldn't be too problematic

Anyway, as for the texts,



I'm thinking I'm going to go with Netherlands & Berlin for the text types. If nobody has any objections to that...?

Ps. pork, this should please you... I just wrote a very primitive but functional plugin for paint.net which allows me to adjust text kerning, so in future my territory labels will be having absolutely perfect kerning.



edit... oh, just one more thing.

How would the station names look in all caps? see amsterdam in below:

I rarely like the look of all caps, as it is usually not as easy to read as mixed case. This map is no exception. Stick to mixed case.

HOW'S THIS!

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img217/136/orientxv21c.png[/bigimg]


ps. notice the perfect kerning on the station names.


small version

The text looks fine to me. In fact I couldn't care less about the kerning. What's bothering me is the land monopoly legend in the top left corner. I think it either needs to be titled inward or at least needs to be tilted at a less dramatic angle, so that the numbers and words aren't tangent to the edge of the map (like the 3 on France, and the L in Land)

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.
The kerning looks good also. Perfect kerning is not something that people notice, but bad kerning is. And, it makes for a an unprofessional appearance.

The only thing that I can see to improve the text is, make the color contrast between the stations and territs, a wee bit higher. The territs have a red tint, I would make them just a little bit redder and/or lighter. Just enough to set them apart at a glance.

The Bison King wrote:The text looks fine to me. In fact I couldn't care less about the kerning. What's bothering me is the land monopoly legend in the top left corner. I think it either needs to be titled inward or at least needs to be tilted at a less dramatic angle, so that the numbers and words aren't tangent to the edge of the map (like the 3 on France, and the L in Land)

I've tried it, and believe it or not, the text actually fits worse with a lesser tilt.

porkenbeans wrote:The kerning looks good also. Perfect kerning is not something that people notice, but bad kerning is. And, it makes for a an unprofessional appearance.

Well, I have to slightly disagree there - sometimes imperfect kerning can be used as an effect to create an appearance of a text printed with old or low-end equipment... even so recently as 30-40 years ago, lots of printed text had kerning errors... especially in cheaper print jobs... but that's neither here or there, so...

porkenbeans wrote:The only thing that I can see to improve the text is, make the color contrast between the stations and territs, a wee bit higher. The territs have a red tint, I would make them just a little bit redder and/or lighter. Just enough to set them apart at a glance.

Personally I think there's already enough contrast between them. I can try some slight adjustment but not anything major..

've tried it, and believe it or not, the text actually fits worse with a lesser tilt.

Well I think less of a tilt is more of the secondary solution anyway, the most desirable being to flip it back the other way. I know Ender516 suggested that you set it the current way and I totally respect the guy, but I really really think, it works a lot better tilted in. Now, you know me, and know that I don't like to dig things up and bother them about little things like this unless I really think it's going to help. My reasoning behind supporting the inward tilt is because the outward tilt draws the eye out of the image through the top left corner. As a design element it's just a bad call. Tilting it inward does the complete opposite and creates a visual path pointing inward, directly center into the map.



As you can see in this version of the map the bottom of the legend points directly to Munich and Vienna. As a design element this is extremely desirable. To focus the eye on the center of the action. I swear I wouldn't bring this up 3 times if I didn't know what I was talking about, and I swear on my BFA of fine arts that it will be a better image if you re-orient the legend to match the I have posted above.

Looking pretty good. Look at the positioning of some of your territory names, some are kinda annoying to see. Think about abbreviating Austria, Brandonburg, and Rhone-Alpes. Also fudge the border of Greece and Tekir to the west a bit so the connector line clearly connects Turkey and Tekir. Its not too bad on the large, but on the small it's a hair's breathe from the border and could easily be mistaken as connecting to Greece instead. Consider slightly altering the border of Styria and/or Hungary so the border between Austria and Croatia is a little more clear. It will also give you some wiggle room for the Vienna territory name as well. That whole center around Vienna is quite busy, especially on the small map.

Bisonking, here's a compromise on the legend. I'm keeping the outer tilt but placed it a bit better so the letters aren't clipped.

(also, pork, the land territory labels are now more faded.)

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img828/1359/orientxv21d.png[/bigimg]




Now for newer comments:

RedBaron0 wrote:Looking pretty good. Look at the positioning of some of your territory names, some are kinda annoying to see. Think about abbreviating Austria, Brandonburg, and Rhone-Alpes.

I hate abbreviations. My opinion is that all other options need to be explored before resorting to them, they should be kept to a minimum which I try to do on all of my maps.

Rhone-alpes can be cut into two lines easily as it is already hyphenated (similarily to Croatia-Slavonia.) Brandenburg I don't really see a problem with - at least if I move it down a px or two. Austria, well... I could try moving both Vienna station and the Austria label 1-2 px to the right which should fix it.

RedBaron0 wrote:Also fudge the border of Greece and Tekir to the west a bit so the connector line clearly connects Turkey and Tekir. Its not too bad on the large, but on the small it's a hair's breathe from the border and could easily be mistaken as connecting to Greece instead.

Will do.

Consider slightly altering the border of Styria and/or Hungary so the border between Austria and Croatia is a little more clear. It will also give you some wiggle room for the Vienna territory name as well. That whole center around Vienna is quite busy, especially on the small map.

Yeah, will do also.

The Bison King wrote:Well I think less of a tilt is more of the secondary solution anyway, the most desirable being to flip it back the other way.

The Bison King wrote:My reasoning behind supporting the inward tilt is because the outward tilt draws the eye out of the image through the top left corner.

Bison, I appreciate your feedback, but IMO you're getting a bit too hung up on this one thing. Your reasoning is solid, but you have to also consider other factors. Overall, the clockwise tilt works better because it follows the outlines of the map better, instead of clashing against them, and it also allows a better composition inside the legend itself.

The text looks wonderful. Positioning needs to be tightened up here and there, but all of that can wait until punch-out.

Bisonking, here's a compromise on the legend. I'm keeping the outer tilt but placed it a bit better so the letters aren't clipped.

Whatever, I don't know what you have against the inward tilt but I'll just drop it already. What you did is an improvement, but sort of missed the point on what I was trying to say.

The thing is I have given ample reason for the inward tilt, but I haven't heard a single reason for it to face outward.

The Bison King wrote:

Bisonking, here's a compromise on the legend. I'm keeping the outer tilt but placed it a bit better so the letters aren't clipped.

Whatever, I don't know what you have against the inward tilt but I'll just drop it already. What you did is an improvement, but sort of missed the point on what I was trying to say.

I adressed your point at the end of my post which you apparently missed.

You are right! I didn't read that last bit...

Well now I have... I don't really agree with it, but whatever man I'm done, I tried, it still looks great. Good job.

I hope this goes to the forge soon.

The Bison King wrote:You are right! I didn't read that last bit...

Well now I have... I don't really agree with it, but whatever man I'm done, I tried, it still looks great. Good job.

I hope this goes to the forge soon.

Between the two, I am with BK, but it is such a small and subjective thing, that it does not really matter all that much.

Ok, well, with all that resolved, I personally am beginning to be fairly satisfied with the map:

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img829/5569/orientxv21e.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img842/6372/orientxv21esmall.png[/bigimg]


Corrected the issues pointed out by Rb0, also moved some other territory names to better locations, corrected a few other territory borders...

So unless anyone can point out any huge flaws that have gone unnoticed, perhaps we can get this moving on some time soon?

I haven't taken the time to read all the posts in this thread but to me the text for the abbreviations in the lower left is difficult to read. I think it is a combination of the font and the changing colors in the behind it. Maybe shadowing the text or something would help with the readability.

Both versions?

The border between Austria and Slovakia can be moved over a few pixels to the right. On the small especially it could be possible to think Vienna connects to Slovakia. The same for Bohemia to the north, move that border up a few pixels away from Vienna.

I agree with wise, in fact I'd suggest using that same font you have for the Belgrade note for continuity.

RedBaron0 wrote:The border between Austria and Slovakia can be moved over a few pixels to the right. On the small especially it could be possible to think Vienna connects to Slovakia. The same for Bohemia to the north, move that border up a few pixels away from Vienna.

I agree with wise, in fact I'd suggest using that same font you have for the Belgrade note for continuity.

Yes I agree. The same kind of border cheating can be done down in Greece and Tekir. So as to fit on the entire label, without them going over the line.

Good, good. Anything else?

Ok, everything should be kosher now.

I corrected every border that was asked plus a few others (like Westphalia.) Also made the abbreviations list & the belgrade text the same font as the lower legend, made the text blend with the map a bit better. I think it looks good like this.

v22: large

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img827/3659/orientxv22.png[/bigimg]

small




XML test results in animated gifs:

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img832/6384/orientxv22tra.gif[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://a.imageshack.us/img834/1524/orientxv22smalltra.gif[/bigimg]

Sorry for the poor gif quality - I was going to do animated png:s, but they'd have been way too big and some browsers won't show them...

I LOVE THINGS THAT ARE ANIMATED!!!!

Everything fits snug as a bug, this looks fantastic, great work!

The animated GIFs are certainly good evidence of the superiority of PNGs, although the graininess almost makes them look like they were painted on fabric.

The troop locations on the large map look fine, but if I could make a few suggestions for the small map:

• If Aquitane's troops were repositioned below its label, it would not be at risk of being overwritten by a large Bordeaux value.
• Muntenia could be moved one digit to the right, to give Bucharest room to grow.
• It would nice to provide more space between
  • Tekir and Constantinople,
  • Albania and Greece, and
  • Greece and Thessalonica,
  but these would likely require boundary shifts, and even then they might be impossible, or at least too ugly and/or geographically inaccurate to tolerate.

I realize that nothing actually overlaps with the 888's, which is the standard to which maps are usually held, but if a small change can help larger numbers (or numbers with colour codes), then I think it should be considered.