Conquer Club

jay_a2j wrote:

MeDeFe wrote:But if it's in the plan it would be granted whether you pray or not.

Not necessarily, I was healed of MS. I don't recall ever praying for a healing myself but I know others were. I have prayed for others to be healed and they were not. God sees the big picture. Prayers can consist of many things, not just requests. Prayer is how we humans communicate with God.

But what's the point? If an omniscient being wnts something to have done, you can be damn sure a few humans praying ain't giong to stop this "divine plan" eh jay?

And don't start that MS thing again

Why is their no flying spaghetti option in the poll?

Gregrios wrote:No I don't believe he knew that Adam and Eve were going to go against his wishes as it states in Genesis when God walks through paradise looking for Adam who was hiding in the bushes. This clearly shows that God did not have forknowledge because if he did he wouldn't have been looking for Adam and wondering where he was. Instead he would have just went right to the bush where Adam was hiding. My take on it is that it was Satan's actions that he didn't see coming. That's just my opinion and not of popular belief as far as I know.

So then you ....

1) Believe that God is not all knowing. This creates conflict with multiple areas...

a) That God isn't omnipotent.
b) That God is able to know the future in areas such as Revelations - if he didn't know about Adam and such, how could he predict all the other things that are to come?
c) You take into account that God has many human assets... the anthropomorphism shown in the Old Testament, most notably Genesis, provides us to question whether God is subject to emotions outside his control (does he experience anger, jealousy, regret, etc.).

I still haven't seen any proponent of the existence of a god provide any "logic" that dictates her existance.

jay_a2j wrote:

jonesthecurl wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Well, here's by 2 cents. God knew where Adam was all along.

OOH dissension in the Xian ranks.

Stipulating the Genesis story to be true for a moment, I think you're right, Jay.
But it does take the wind out of the sails of the rest of Gregrios' comments on the free-will question above, don't you think?

If you choose to see it that way, I suppose. God has a plan. The plan will be completed to the end. God intervenes to keep the plan on track. Thus when we pray for something outside of God's plan, it will not be granted. The big picture is something that none of us can see.

No dissension, Christians vary in what they believe on the "little things". I talked to a guy yesterday that believes that there where baby dinosaurs on Noah's ark. He is free to believe that if he wishes, I don't.

2 Grown men discussing the semantics of a fairy story - you couldn't make it up could you its so ridiculous Seriously dont you think there are more pressing things in the World to think about, more important things to spend your time on, its comparable to 2 ten year olds speculating about Wonder Womens tits though less understandable

wonder womans tits were omniscient

cassanooba wrote:wonder womans tits were omniscient

No they were simply ubiquitous.

comic boy wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

jonesthecurl wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Well, here's by 2 cents. God knew where Adam was all along.

OOH dissension in the Xian ranks.

Stipulating the Genesis story to be true for a moment, I think you're right, Jay.
But it does take the wind out of the sails of the rest of Gregrios' comments on the free-will question above, don't you think?

If you choose to see it that way, I suppose. God has a plan. The plan will be completed to the end. God intervenes to keep the plan on track. Thus when we pray for something outside of God's plan, it will not be granted. The big picture is something that none of us can see.

No dissension, Christians vary in what they believe on the "little things". I talked to a guy yesterday that believes that there where baby dinosaurs on Noah's ark. He is free to believe that if he wishes, I don't.

2 Grown men discussing the semantics of a fairy story - you couldn't make it up could you its so ridiculous Seriously dont you think there are more pressing things in the World to think about, more important things to spend your time on, its comparable to 2 ten year olds speculating about Wonder Womens tits though less understandable

Well, you're reading it.

jonesthecurl wrote:

comic boy wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

jonesthecurl wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Well, here's by 2 cents. God knew where Adam was all along.

OOH dissension in the Xian ranks.

Stipulating the Genesis story to be true for a moment, I think you're right, Jay.
But it does take the wind out of the sails of the rest of Gregrios' comments on the free-will question above, don't you think?

If you choose to see it that way, I suppose. God has a plan. The plan will be completed to the end. God intervenes to keep the plan on track. Thus when we pray for something outside of God's plan, it will not be granted. The big picture is something that none of us can see.

No dissension, Christians vary in what they believe on the "little things". I talked to a guy yesterday that believes that there where baby dinosaurs on Noah's ark. He is free to believe that if he wishes, I don't.

2 Grown men discussing the semantics of a fairy story - you couldn't make it up could you its so ridiculous Seriously dont you think there are more pressing things in the World to think about, more important things to spend your time on, its comparable to 2 ten year olds speculating about Wonder Womens tits though less understandable

Well, you're reading it.

Smells like something's burning.

comic boy wrote:
2 Grown men discussing the semantics of a fairy story - you couldn't make it up could you its so ridiculous Seriously dont you think there are more pressing things in the World to think about, more important things to spend your time on, its comparable to 2 ten year olds speculating about Wonder Womens tits though less understandable

Nothing is more important than one's relationship with God. Although only a very few will realize this.

Well, isn't that special, or rather aren't you special, one of the chosen, one of the saved? Such smugness is what leads the horrific inhumanity through the centuries in the name of god.

Where is the "logic" that dictates that there is a god? After all that is the thread's subject. None of you fundamentalist have given any presentation of such "logic."

mpjh wrote:Well, isn't that special, or rather aren't you special, one of the chosen, one of the saved? Such smugness is what leads the horrific inhumanity through the centuries in the name of god.

Where is the "logic" that dictates that there is a god? After all that is the thread's subject. None of you fundamentalist have given any presentation of such "logic."

Read the OP.


Not "smugness", it's just how things will be. God giving men free will, the majority of men will choose to live apart from God. To live as they want to. Just the facts sir, just the facts.

The smugness is that you think you have all the answers, that you are god's voice, that you are better than everyone who doesn't see it your way.

That is not a demonstration of "logic," it is a demonstration of an immature mind and spirit, of narcissism.

mpjh wrote:The smugness is that you think you have all the answers, that you are god's voice, that you are better than everyone who doesn't see it your way.

That is not a demonstration of "logic," it is a demonstration of an immature mind and spirit, of narcissism.

I don't have all the answers, the Bible does. I am better than no one, and its not about "seeing it my way", its about seeing it God's way.


When you can provide evidence that life can either come from non-life or that life can just appear from nothing we can continue on this "search for logic".

But you claim to be able to tell what "god's way" is.



And I like mpjh because he doesn't use emoticons.

MeDeFe wrote:But you claim to be able to tell what "god's way" is.



And I like mpjh because he doesn't use emoticons.

No, God's way is laid out in the Bible. (Which I didn't author)


(guess you really dislike me)

jay_a2j wrote:No, God's way is laid out in the Bible. (Which I didn't author)

You do your fair share of interpreting though.

jay_a2j wrote:

mpjh wrote:The smugness is that you think you have all the answers, that you are god's voice, that you are better than everyone who doesn't see it your way.

That is not a demonstration of "logic," it is a demonstration of an immature mind and spirit, of narcissism.

I don't have all the answers, the Bible does. I am better than no one, and its not about "seeing it my way", its about seeing it God's way.


When you can provide evidence that life can either come from non-life or that life can just appear from nothing we can continue on this "search for logic".

I didn't start this thread. I am making no claim as to whether there is or is not a god. I am simply saying that, from the evidence I see in the world any god would have to be a vacuous entity without compassion. You are the one claiming there is a god and that "logic dictates" so. Where is the logic?

mpjh wrote: Where is the logic?

In the OP.

jay_a2j wrote:

mpjh wrote: Where is the logic?

In the OP.

*checks OP*
Logic not found, the premises are faulty.

I agree, the opening paragraph sets up a straw man in making a claim for science that science does not make for itself. There is no logical proof of anything in that paragraph.

Is that all you got?

jay_a2j wrote:

comic boy wrote:
2 Grown men discussing the semantics of a fairy story - you couldn't make it up could you its so ridiculous Seriously dont you think there are more pressing things in the World to think about, more important things to spend your time on, its comparable to 2 ten year olds speculating about Wonder Womens tits though less understandable

Nothing is more important than one's relationship with God. Although only a very few will realize this.

That is precisely where certain people go astray, rather than using religion to enrich their lives they allow it to take over and become their life....big mistake !

mpjh wrote:The smugness is that you think you have all the answers, that you are god's voice, that you are better than everyone who doesn't see it your way.

That is not a demonstration of "logic," it is a demonstration of an immature mind and spirit, of narcissism.

The fact that you're attacking Jay's character only shows your own level of immaturity.

joecoolfrog wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

comic boy wrote:
2 Grown men discussing the semantics of a fairy story - you couldn't make it up could you its so ridiculous Seriously dont you think there are more pressing things in the World to think about, more important things to spend your time on, its comparable to 2 ten year olds speculating about Wonder Womens tits though less understandable

Nothing is more important than one's relationship with God. Although only a very few will realize this.

That is precisely where certain people go astray, rather than using religion to enrich their lives they allow it to take over and become their life....big mistake !

Wrong! The big mistake is thinking like you do.

I didn't attack Jay's character. He probably is a fine person. I just described his conduct and questioned his lack of support for the "logic" which is supposed to be the topic of this thread.