Archipelago [Quenched]

[Mjinga]

SWEET! Thanks for the FF, Andy, and thanks for the congratz, guys.

[jiminski]

i thought i had written a congratulations.. must've gone somewhere before hitting submit.

Marvellous work you 2! i can't wait to play on your board!

[jiminski]

i have just been reading through and following the development of this thread into the map we have now.
after just reading the first 4 or 5 pages, i am amazed you ever made it to here. that alone is testament to your impassioned resilience.

At each stage you have maintained the integrity of the image, whilst including all views and ideas, with great style and generosity!

charting the visual and gameplay developments in here, i can, with the glory of perfect hindsight, say that you made all the correct judgments and changes. Changes not always in accordance with my own initial viewpoint i may add!

Comparing the various stages of its evolution, what you have now is so obviously right, that it is hard to believe there was even debate.

well done indeed!.... now just the bloody volcano..

[Mjinga]

Thanks jiminski!

Another go at the volcano, Version 15.6. I directly stole an idea of jiminski's that I thought was good. He pointed out that the basic problem with the volcano is that it comes out of totally flat land and doesn't look like it belongs there. He suggested that I not try and make it blend so much, but rather stick out more, and not try to breach the difference between the volcano and the land. I think it works well, but what do you all think?

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap15-6.png[/bigimg]

[Androidz]

Its really is a big improvement nice work.

[edbeard]

I don't quite get the logic of this gameplay (bonuses) and why it was stamped. I'd like to get more input as to why they were made as they are.


the blue and yellow regions are almost exactly the same

6 territories vs 5 territories
4 borders each
4 other regions border it
5 territories attack it vs 4 territories attack it

the only difference is that yellow borders purple and blue borders brown (both border red, each other and a 2 bonus region). brown is less likely to be held so I guess that's one thing in yellow's favour in terms of difficulty.


another question I have is the 8 bonus for brown. 10 territories is tough. 5 borders. only 3 regions from 4 territories can attack it though. this means you can lower your borders by taking a territory.


I'd say that red, yellow, blue, and purple are probably all worth 4. And, brown might be worth 8 since it's so large. But, I'd lean more towards 6.


I'd like to hear the thoughts of the map makers and the stampers. maybe I'm just missing something



the volcano is good btw

[jiminski]

Thanks jiminski!

Another go at the volcano, Version 15.6. I directly stole an idea of jiminski's that I thought was good. He pointed out that the basic problem with the volcano is that it comes out of totally flat land and doesn't look like it belongs there. He suggested that I not try and make it blend so much, but rather stick out more, and not try to breach the difference between the volcano and the land. I think it works well, but what do you all think?

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap15-6.png[/bigimg]

Really fantastic Volcano Mj, I reckon that works doesn't it!
(thanks very much for the idea credit but i really deserve none)

[ZeakCytho]

I don't quite get the logic of this gameplay (bonuses) and why it was stamped. I'd like to get more input as to why they were made as they are.


the blue and yellow regions are almost exactly the same

6 territories vs 5 territories
4 borders each
4 other regions border it
5 territories attack it vs 4 territories attack it

the only difference is that yellow borders purple and blue borders brown (both border red, each other and a 2 bonus region). brown is less likely to be held so I guess that's one thing in yellow's favour in terms of difficulty.


another question I have is the 8 bonus for brown. 10 territories is tough. 5 borders. only 3 regions from 4 territories can attack it though. this means you can lower your borders by taking a territory.


I'd say that red, yellow, blue, and purple are probably all worth 4. And, brown might be worth 8 since it's so large. But, I'd lean more towards 6.

The reason yellow was made +5 instead of +4 was because of its position dead-center in the map - every player will attack someone who drops there, since it borders almost every continent. Giving it an extra +1 would help reduce the disadvantage for someone trying to take it. A few people were also thinking blue should be +5, but I didn't see much reason for that. If other people are in favor of knocking yellow's bonus down to 4, we could do that, I suppose.

Brown is going to be incredibly hard to take and hold, hence its large bonus. I think 6 is too low, but 8 might be too high. We could compromise on 7 if others think 8 is too high.

[Mjinga]

Isris is +4 because it's not so many territs, but it is bordered by continents that people will be holding, except Vienlorre. No one will try to hold Vienlorre early game. If ever. Biceror, on the other hand, is entirely bordered by continents that people will try to hold, as well as being the fastest crossing from continents on opposite corners of the map, hence the +5.

Vienlorre is huge. The +8 is to try and help anyone who wastes all their troops trying to get it early game, even though I doubt very much that anyone could hold it long enough to get the +8. As you say, taking Dodria would reduce the number of borders to be held. However, considering that Kalwar will be one of the first continents snapped up, I highly doubt that anyone trying to get Vienlorre would have enough troops to take and hold Dodria, unless it was a well-advanced buildup game.

I will not change the bonuses unless Oaktown says I must. Sorry, but we already went through all the bonuses about ten pages ago, and I don't want to do it again.

[ZeakCytho]

So is everyone happy with this mountain? Or is it so hideous that you guys don't have anything nice to say, so you're not saying anything at all?

I've been lazy and slow about centering the XML, but test results should be up soon.

[cairnswk]

So is everyone happy with this mountain? Or is it so hideous that you guys don't have anything nice to say, so you're not saying anything at all?

I've been lazy and slow about centering the XML, but test results should be up soon.

Zeak and Mjinga...i hate to be so honest but you asked....
the mountain itself is good. but it suffers from not being part of the landscape...you have an undulating mountain on top of flat terrain....looks a bit weird to me as there are two differing style at play here.
had you had other terrain on the other islands it wouldn't look out of place.
your call, but i'd abandon the mountain in favour of a lake if you're not going to place terrain on the other islands to some degree. IMHO.

[jiminski]

I respectfully disagree with Cairns. (though as you know my first choice was always the lake .. hehe perhaps with a mini-volcano in the middle, which also evades the vying texture issue)

I think the reason that the new volcano* now works is for the very reason that Cairns says it does not work.
It no longer attempts to meld into the island; to do that would mean altering almost the entire surface of Bisham and then it would lose its place in amongst the rest of the smooth-skinned archipelago.

In this way, with the volcano obviously distinct from the smooth island surface, the eye and brain are not in a jarring debate as to whether the volcano works as an innate part of the greater area.
With the Volcano so obviously as an entity of its own, the brain is free to accept it as a realistic depiction of its kind, against the surreal abstract background of the unfaltering landscape.
this is counterintuitive but because there is no longer an uncomfortable battle between real and surreal it becomes gestalt.


* I do take Cairns's point regarding it being a feature alone and the need for other features on other islands. I would agree with this more if it were only a mountain. the fact of it being a volcano means that it can be a defining, standalone feature. Its uniqueness allows it to successfully operate in solitary.

[Hydrargentium]

Well, whatever other complaints people have about this map, I like it, and I want to play it. Isn't that the most important point?



Hg

[yeti_c]

You could consider putting a ring of Lava around the base of the volcano - thus removing any need for melding into flat textures?

C.

[jiminski]

You could consider putting a ring of Lava around the base of the volcano - thus removing any need for melding into flat textures?

C.

yeah .. i've been toying with that too yeti, (i suggested either shadow with a sunken area to give a transition of texture or a river/moat-like feature to MJ .. not sure that she liked it though ; ) )

but a moat of lava would be better and carry the theme on!

[Mjinga]

Hi guys! Sorry that this has been inactive for so long. Zeak's in Montana, doing... whatever there is in Montana to do... and I've been out of town house-sitting my sister's place. I haven't got my psd with me and he hasn't got a reliable connection for us to conference on, and so the map has temporarily stalled.

We should be back to work Saturday night. Sorry for the delay!

[ZeakCytho]

Finally, an update! Mjinga tweaked the mountains a number of times, but we finally decided that the best looking ones were in version 15.6, as seen on the last page. Any final complaints?

Version 16 (Large)
[bigimg]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap16.png[/bigimg]

Version 16 with 88s (Large)
[bigimg]http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/ZeakCytho/CC/Archipelago/ArchMap16-Large-XML88s.jpg[/bigimg]

Version 16 with 888s (Large)
[bigimg]http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/ZeakCytho/CC/Archipelago/ArchMap16-Large-XML888s.jpg[/bigimg]

Version 16 (Small)
[bigimg]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap16Small.png[/bigimg]

Version 16 with 88s (Small)


Version 16 with 888s (Small)


XML:
http://h1.ripway.com/ZeakCytho/Archipel ... %20XML.xml

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<map>
           <title>Archipelago</title>
           <smallwidth>630</smallwidth>
          <smallheight>394</smallheight>
   <largewidth>800</largewidth>
          <largeheight>500</largeheight>
           <filetype>png</filetype>
           <continent>
              <name>Isris Islands</name>
               <bonus>4</bonus>
               <components>
                       <territory>Dektel</territory>
                        <territory>Drage</territory>
                       <territory>Fenur</territory>
                        <territory>Nyard</territory>
                  <territory>Leraru</territory>
                  <territory>Rol Keys</territory>
               </components>
   </continent>
    <continent>
               <name>Kalwar</name>
               <bonus>2</bonus>
               <components>
                    <territory>Yerser Beach</territory>
                        <territory>Sakuk</territory>
                        <territory>Inton</territory>
                        <territory>Dodria</territory>
               </components>
      </continent>
      <continent>
               <name>Vienlorre</name>
               <bonus>8</bonus>
               <components>
                       <territory>Seral</territory>
                        <territory>Seis</territory>
                        <territory>Rilok</territory>
                        <territory>Taramur</territory>
                  <territory>Luron Coast</territory>
                  <territory>Torim</territory>
                  <territory>Kelata</territory>
                  <territory>Shemar</territory>
                  <territory>Lyconia</territory>
                  <territory>Mura Coast</territory>
               </components>
      </continent>
      <continent>
               <name>Thres</name>
               <bonus>4</bonus>
               <components>
                       <territory>Falmor</territory>
                        <territory>Toril</territory>
                        <territory>Chakala</territory>
                        <territory>Bokep Island</territory>
                  <territory>Hersis</territory>
                  <territory>Strent</territory>
                  <territory>Fidan Peninsula</territory>
               </components>
      </continent>
      <continent>
               <name>Caen Islands</name>
               <bonus>2</bonus>
               <components>
                       <territory>Isle of Kell</territory>
                        <territory>Iori Keys</territory>
                        <territory>Tasaad</territory>
                        <territory>Asaad</territory>
                  <territory>Orold</territory>
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      </continent>
      <continent>
               <name>Bishan Island</name>
               <bonus>4</bonus>
               <components>
                       <territory>Islor Coast</territory>
                        <territory>Ces</territory>
                        <territory>Eten</territory>
                        <territory>Daur</territory>
                  <territory>Synkor</territory>
                  <territory>Odesse</territory>
               </components>
      </continent>
      <continent>
               <name>Biceror Isles</name>
               <bonus>5</bonus>
               <components>
                       <territory>Kyson</territory>
                        <territory>Surubi</territory>
                        <territory>Atimy</territory>
                        <territory>Basela</territory>
                  <territory>Niagis</territory>
               </components>
    </continent>
      <territory>
              <name>Dektel</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Drage</border>
                        <border>Fenur</border>
                </borders>
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         <largex>29</largex>
         <largey>91</largey>
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      </territory>
      <territory>
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              <borders>
                      <border>Drage</border>
                        <border>Dektel</border>
                  <border>Nyard</border>
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     <territory>
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      <territory>
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                  <smallx>153</smallx>
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      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Leraru</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Nyard</border>
                        <border>Kyson</border>
                  <border>Rol Keys</border>
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         <largex>294</largex>
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      <territory>
              <name>Rol Keys</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Yerser Beach</border>
                        <border>Leraru</border>
                  <border>Lyconia</border>
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               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>352</smallx>
                  <smally>117</smally>   
         <largex>444</largex>
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              <name>Yerser Beach</name>
              <borders>
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                        <border>Sakuk</border>
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      </territory>
      <territory>
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                      <border>Yerser Beach</border>
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                  <border>Inton</border>
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                      <border>Luron Coast</border>
                        <border>Kelata</border>
                  <border>Mura Coast</border>
                  <border>Shemar</border>
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                      <border>Luron Coast</border>
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                  <border>Mura Coast</border>
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      <territory>
              <name>Mura Coast</name>
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                      <border>Kelata</border>
                        <border>Torim</border>
                  <border>Lyconia</border>
                  <border>Shemar</border>
                  <border>Fidan Peninsula</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>457</smallx>
                 <smally>170</smally>
         <largex>582</largex>
         <largey>209</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Shemar</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Torim</border>
                        <border>Mura Coast</border>
                  <border>Lyconia</border>
                  <border>Dodria</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>454</smallx>
                  <smally>106</smally>
         <largex>584</largex>
         <largey>126</largey>
               </coordinates>
     </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Lyconia</name>
              <borders>
                  <border>Rol Keys</border>
                        <border>Shemar</border>
                  <border>Mura Coast</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>431</smallx>
                  <smally>152</smally>
         <largex>545</largex>
         <largey>189</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Falmor</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Luron Coast</border>
                        <border>Bokep Island</border>
                  <border>Toril</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>565</smallx>
                  <smally>279</smally>   
         <largex>720</largex>
         <largey>347</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Toril</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Falmor</border>
                        <border>Bokep Island</border>
                  <border>Chakala</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>546</smallx>
                  <smally>338</smally>
         <largex>688</largex>
         <largey>428</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Chakala</name>
              <borders>
                     <border>Toril</border>
                        <border>Bokep Island</border>
                 <border>Strent</border>
                  <border>Hersis</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>494</smallx>
                  <smally>383</smally>
         <largex>631</largex>
         <largey>481</largey>
              </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Bokep Island</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Falmor</border>
                        <border>Toril</border>
                  <border>Chakala</border>
                  <border>Hersis</border>
        </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>491</smallx>
                  <smally>292</smally>
         <largex>623</largex>
         <largey>365</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Hersis</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Fidan Peninsula</border>
                        <border>Bokep Island</border>
                  <border>Chakala</border>
                  <border>Strent</border>
                </borders>
      <coordinates>
                  <smallx>422</smallx>
                  <smally>317</smally>         
         <largex>536</largex>
         <largey>393</largey>
               </coordinates>
     </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Fidan Peninsula</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Mura Coast</border>
                        <border>Surubi</border>
                  <border>Hersis</border>
                  <border>Strent</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>392</smallx>
                  <smally>282</smally>
         <largex>498</largex>
         <largey>353</largey>
              </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Strent</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Chakala</border>
                        <border>Hersis</border>
                  <border>Fidan Peninsula</border>
                  <border>Isle of Kell</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>414</smallx>
                  <smally>363</smally>
         <largex>527</largex>
         <largey>457</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Isle of Kell</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Strent</border>
                        <border>Iori Keys</border>
              </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>355</smallx>
                  <smally>381</smally>
          <largex>454</largex>
         <largey>481</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Iori Keys</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Isle of Kell</border>
                        <border>Asaad</border>
                  <border>Tasaad</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>325</smallx>
                  <smally>341</smally>
         <largex>411</largex>
         <largey>424</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Tasaad</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Iori Keys</border>
                        <border>Asaad</border>
               </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>234</smallx>
                  <smally>403</smally>
          <largex>295</largex>
         <largey>503</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Asaad</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Iori Keys</border>
                        <border>Tasaad</border>
                  <border>Orold</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>212</smallx>
                  <smally>343</smally>
         <largex>271</largex>
         <largey>430</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Orold</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Asaad</border>
                        <border>Niagis</border>
                  <border>Islor Coast</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>170</smallx>
                  <smally>326</smally>
         <largex>218</largex>
         <largey>406</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Islor Coast</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Orold</border>
                        <border>Ces</border>
                  <border>Odesse</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>127</smallx>
                  <smally>257</smally>
         <largex>163</largex>
         <largey>321</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Ces</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Eten</border>
                        <border>Daur</border>
                  <border>Islor Coast</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>81</smallx>
                  <smally>225</smally>
         <largex>106</largex>
         <largey>276</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Eten</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Drage</border>
                        <border>Ces</border>
                  <border>Daur</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>63</smallx>
                  <smally>198</smally>
         <largex>81</largex>
         <largey>243</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Daur</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Nyard</border>
                        <border>Synkor</border>
                  <border>Eten</border>
                  <border>Ces</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>111</smallx>
                  <smally>177</smally>
         <largex>143</largex>
         <largey>217</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Synkor</name>
             <borders>
                      <border>Daur</border>
                        <border>Odesse</border>
               </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>153</smallx>
                  <smally>177</smally>
         <largex>198</largex>
         <largey>219</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Odesse</name>
                 <borders>
                      <border>Synkor</border>
                        <border>Islor Coast</border>
                  <border>Atimy</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>164</smallx>
                  <smally>228</smally>
         <largex>211</largex>
         <largey>281</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Atimy</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Odesse</border>
                        <border>Niagis</border>
                  <border>Kyson</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>226</smallx>
                  <smally>231</smally>
         <largex>287</largex>
         <largey>288</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Kyson</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Surubi</border>
                        <border>Atimy</border>
                  <border>Leraru</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>240</smallx>
                  <smally>164</smally>
         <largex>306</largex>
         <largey>203</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Surubi</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Kyson</border>
                        <border>Fidan Peninsula</border>
                  <border>Basela</border>
                </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>325</smallx>
                  <smally>223</smally>
         <largex>414</largex>
         <largey>279</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Basela</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Surubi</border>
                        <border>Niagis</border>
               </borders>
               <coordinates>
                  <smallx>299</smallx>
                  <smally>272</smally>
         <largex>380</largex>
         <largey>340</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
              <name>Niagis</name>
              <borders>
                      <border>Basela</border>
                       <border>Atimy</border>
                  <border>Orold</border>
               </borders>
               <coordinates>   
                  <smallx>235</smallx>
                  <smally>275</smally>
         <largex>299</largex>
         <largey>344</largey>
               </coordinates>
      </territory>
</map>

Summary: 0 errors and 0 warnings detected in Archipelago XML (7 continents, 43 territories)


What you need to know:
Number of territories: 42
Number of continents: 7
Gameplay Info: Classic gameplay
Map Size (Large): 500x800
Map Size (Large): 400x630

Changes In This Version:
1) Volcano tweaked
2) Army circles tweaked
3) Signature tweaked
4) XML completed and centered

Points of Discussion:
1) Volcano look good?
2) Armies all centered?

To Do:
1) Get the XML stamp
2) Quench!

[jiminski]

Finally, an update! Mjinga tweaked the mountains a number of times, but we finally decided that the best looking ones were in version 15.6, as seen on the last page. Any final complaints?
Version 16 (Large)
[bigimg]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap16.png[/bigimg]

sorry, i am not quite sure which one 15.6 is: the one above?

if so, no complaints from me.

[yeti_c]

All looks pretty good to me.

C.

[Forza AZ]

I just checked the XML and it is OK.

[ZeakCytho]

Finally, an update! Mjinga tweaked the mountains a number of times, but we finally decided that the best looking ones were in version 15.6, as seen on the last page. Any final complaints?
Version 16 (Large)
[bigimg]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap16.png[/bigimg]

sorry, i am not quite sure which one 15.6 is: the one above?

if so, no complaints from me.

Version 15.6 is:
[bigimg]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Rhiannonaecastilla/CC/Maps/Archipelago/ArchMap15-6.png[/bigimg]

The volcano is identical to the one in Version 16, which is what you quoted. A few things changed, such as army circle design and placement, and the signatures.

[jiminski]

All looks Grand to me!!

Edit: hah! i did not even notice the Sig! i do apologise for my lack of grace! too kind, far too kind!!!!
thank you, that would a great honour to be marked on such a fine map! (even though wholly undeserved)

[Mjinga]

I hate to ask and invite complaints, but... any complaints with the map?

[jiminski]

I hate to ask and invite complaints, but... any complaints with the map?

yes it is too pretty! could you ugly it up a little so the other maps don't suffer so?

[benny profane]

Some army numbers are off, most of which seem to need only to be pulled up one pixel.

On the large: all of Thres and the Caen Islands, as well as Niagis, Atimy, Islor Coast, Shemar, Lyconia, Mura Coast, and Torim.

On the small: Strent, Hersis, Toril, Iori Keys, Tasaad, Orold, Rol Keys, and Seral.

Same for triple 8's, I think.