Conquer Club

If you have any understanding of science, the facts of evolution are as obvious as night and day.

If you are afraid of a world without an intelligent design you will believe just about anything.

orion_ wrote::roll:

If you have any understanding of science, the facts of evolution are as obvious as night and day.

If you are afraid of a world without an intelligent design you will believe just about anything.

This has been said a thousand times and still jay won't pay it any attention and annoy the f*ck out of everyone here.

Jay
There is no point denying the fact that 99.9 % of Scientists believe in the theory,they may all be wrong but its unlikely. Therefore it would be correct to say that evolution is widely accepted as fact and there is no comparable theory based on known natural law. Picking flaws in a theory is fine,thats what expands our knowledge, but stubbornly refusing to recognise a probability is just stupid and ignorant.
You have chosen to take an uncompromising stand in regards to literal scripture,which puts you in a huge minority even amongst Christians, this however disadvantages you when confronted with logical thought and reduces you to stonewalling debate. This particular brand of faith does not educate or open ones eyes, it simply narrows them until you become blinded to all that you do not wish to see.

Skittles! wrote:Jay, at my old school, which is a Christian Seventh-Day Adventist school, they refuse to teach evolution with the excuse that it is against their faith. They're not a State school, but a private one.

Do you think this is wrong to not teach evolution because of their faith?

Well, they are a private school. They could just make crap up as they go along and it wouldn't be wrong, at least not in a moral sense. Besides, I'm pretty sure that a lot of Catholic schools are pretty much made to cater to the creationist crowd. That said, I'm a bit interested in what they do tell you when they get to that particular part in Biology or whatever equivalent class they might teach.

jay_a2j wrote:
joecoolfrog, I believe evolution should be taught....as a theory but not as a fact (which was presented as fact in my college first aid class). "The tailbone is what is left of our tail through evolution"

A theory in science is a model based on facts. Evolution is as close to a fact as you can reasonably get in this world. Gravity is also a theory.

heavycola wrote:It's based on a class you took aged... what, 13? That you have stated proudly you ignored? yet you seem to have the jump on the world's geologists, palaeotntologists and biologists.

Remember that jay also honestly believes he was cured of a disease by a television preacher-healer so science in of no value to him.

Backglass wrote:

heavycola wrote:It's based on a class you took aged... what, 13? That you have stated proudly you ignored? yet you seem to have the jump on the world's geologists, palaeotntologists and biologists.

Remember that jay also honestly believes he was cured of a disease by a television preacher-healer so science in of no value to him.

Perfectly believable, the majority of medicine works on placebo reactions anyway. So in a sense "god" did cure Jay, by Jay's belief that it would cure him.

Backglass wrote:

heavycola wrote:It's based on a class you took aged... what, 13? That you have stated proudly you ignored? yet you seem to have the jump on the world's geologists, palaeotntologists and biologists.

Remember that jay also honestly believes he was cured of a disease by a television preacher-healer so science in of no value to him.

Er...is this sarcasm or fact? Sorry, I'm new so I wouldn't know.

Iliad wrote:

Skittles! wrote:Jay, at my old school, which is a Christian Seventh-Day Adventist school, they refuse to teach evolution with the excuse that it is against their faith. They're not a State school, but a private one.

Do you think this is wrong to not teach evolution because of their faith?

I think it is wrong. You should still teach it even if it's against the faith. A strong believer in God will learn evolution in school and not cry and claim it's against his faith.

Thats true with Christians. Christians in state schools in my experiance dont mind learning evolution even if they dont believe it, but Muslims always try to get out of it in every way possible. Imo, they are more ignorant then Christians as some Christians at least admit that it takes faith to believe in their religion, whilst Muslims think that all the evidence points to the fact that their religion is perfect.

Titanic wrote:

Iliad wrote:

Skittles! wrote:Jay, at my old school, which is a Christian Seventh-Day Adventist school, they refuse to teach evolution with the excuse that it is against their faith. They're not a State school, but a private one.

Do you think this is wrong to not teach evolution because of their faith?

I think it is wrong. You should still teach it even if it's against the faith. A strong believer in God will learn evolution in school and not cry and claim it's against his faith.

Thats true with Christians. Christians in state schools in my experiance dont mind learning evolution even if they dont believe it, but Muslims always try to get out of it in every way possible. Imo, they are more ignorant then Christians as some Christians at least admit that it takes faith to believe in their religion, whilst Muslims think that all the evidence points to the fact that their religion is perfect.

Well Jay here's a Christian, and he seems to feel that evolution takes more faith than creation. I think that it's a lot more how religious you are and lot less which one you are in particular...head down to Mississippi and you'll see a heck of a lot of Christians who feel their religion is pretty perfect.

Yeah, Titanic is from the UK.

Snorri1234 wrote:Yeah, Titanic is from the UK.

Heheh, that would explain the difference in perspective.

Titanic wrote:

Iliad wrote:

Skittles! wrote:Jay, at my old school, which is a Christian Seventh-Day Adventist school, they refuse to teach evolution with the excuse that it is against their faith. They're not a State school, but a private one.

Do you think this is wrong to not teach evolution because of their faith?

I think it is wrong. You should still teach it even if it's against the faith. A strong believer in God will learn evolution in school and not cry and claim it's against his faith.

Thats true with Christians. Christians in state schools in my experiance dont mind learning evolution even if they dont believe it, but Muslims always try to get out of it in every way possible. Imo, they are more ignorant then Christians as some Christians at least admit that it takes faith to believe in their religion, whilst Muslims think that all the evidence points to the fact that their religion is perfect.

Visit the Bible Belt.

Iliad wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:That's because it is a fact. You still haven't shown me 3 flaws in evolution. And I can't believe all of your knowledge is based on your class in year 8 taught by a teacher who didn't even believe it!

Evolution IS NOT a fact. Its not based on 8th grade. It's based on ALL the questions evolution leaves unanswered. Or does not even attempt to answer.

Jay if it's not a fact show 3, only 3, flaws. You still haven't done that

I did and you couldn't come up with a logical rebuttal of those, so why post more?

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:That's because it is a fact. You still haven't shown me 3 flaws in evolution. And I can't believe all of your knowledge is based on your class in year 8 taught by a teacher who didn't even believe it!

Evolution IS NOT a fact. Its not based on 8th grade. It's based on ALL the questions evolution leaves unanswered. Or does not even attempt to answer.

Jay if it's not a fact show 3, only 3, flaws. You still haven't done that

I did and you couldn't come up with a logical rebuttal of those, so why post more?

Creation explains why you won't find the fossil of an animal alive today anywhere deep in the soil. Only simpler animals (barring the dinos) are found the deeper you dig. Creation doesn't explain that.

Backglass wrote:

heavycola wrote:It's based on a class you took aged... what, 13? That you have stated proudly you ignored? yet you seem to have the jump on the world's geologists, palaeotntologists and biologists.

Remember that jay also honestly believes he was cured of a disease by a television preacher-healer so science in of no value to him.

lol...I have medical documentation to back it up. Backglass, why bother? Jesus could come into your bedroom tonight and you'd run straight to a psychologist to find out what is wrong with you!

jay_a2j wrote:

Backglass wrote:

heavycola wrote:It's based on a class you took aged... what, 13? That you have stated proudly you ignored? yet you seem to have the jump on the world's geologists, palaeotntologists and biologists.

Remember that jay also honestly believes he was cured of a disease by a television preacher-healer so science in of no value to him.

lol...I have medical documentation to back it up. Backglass, why bother? Jesus could come into your bedroom tonight and you'd run straight to a psychologist to find out what is wrong with you!

There's only one problem: he's been dead for 2000 years, and 'rage' is a fictional disease.

joecoolfrog wrote:Jay
There is no point denying the fact that 99.9 % of Scientists believe in the theory,they may all be wrong but its unlikely. Therefore it would be correct to say that evolution is widely accepted as fact and there is no comparable theory based on known natural law. Picking flaws in a theory is fine,thats what expands our knowledge, but stubbornly refusing to recognise a probability is just stupid and ignorant.
You have chosen to take an uncompromising stand in regards to literal scripture,which puts you in a huge minority even amongst Christians, this however disadvantages you when confronted with logical thought and reduces you to stonewalling debate. This particular brand of faith does not educate or open ones eyes, it simply narrows them until you become blinded to all that you do not wish to see.

It's not 99.9 % Lets keep it official shall we?


1997-NOV data is little changed. Note the massive differences between the beliefs of the general population and of scientists:
Belief system Creationist view Theistic evolution Naturalistic
Everyone 44% 39% 10%
Scientists 5% 40% 55%

unriggable wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Backglass wrote:

heavycola wrote:It's based on a class you took aged... what, 13? That you have stated proudly you ignored? yet you seem to have the jump on the world's geologists, palaeotntologists and biologists.

Remember that jay also honestly believes he was cured of a disease by a television preacher-healer so science in of no value to him.

lol...I have medical documentation to back it up. Backglass, why bother? Jesus could come into your bedroom tonight and you'd run straight to a psychologist to find out what is wrong with you!

There's only one problem: he's been dead for 2000 years, and 'rage' is a fictional disease.

He's been alive for 2000 years. (could we at least be accurate please?)

Ten years ago. Ten years ago my balls didn't work yet. Ten years is a long time.

Hold on, why is it evolution that needs to be defended anyway, since the vast majority of people agree that it's correct. You defend your point of view for a change!

OK, some problems I have with creationism.

1) As Jay has quite rightly said carbon dating is accurate to 70,000 years. The bible says the earth is considerably younger than that. Explain this glaringly obvious problem.

2) Why don't you find fossils of modern day animals? I mean, according to your reasoning surely there should be fossils of animals that lived 100 years ago ...

3) WITHOUT USING YOUR BIBLE, is there any actual evidence that you can point to that shows the earth was created. And please, don't go down the "it's too complicated for me to understand so therefore god did it" route either. I don't understand how Shakespeare managed to write brilliant plays but it doesn't mean that god did it for him. Actual evidence that you do understand that proves your idiotic theory.

That should give you something to be getting on with. I'll give you some more problems if/when you manage to answer those questions for me.

Not to mention that we can see stars millions of light years away.

unriggable wrote:Not to mention that we can see stars millions of light years away.

Hah, don't you know that science is wrong and that light doesn't actually travel at the speed of light?

unriggable wrote:Not to mention that we can see stars millions of light years away.

ya we hit a comet 72 million miles away with some kind of probe.

jay_a2j wrote:

joecoolfrog wrote:Jay
There is no point denying the fact that 99.9 % of Scientists believe in the theory,they may all be wrong but its unlikely. Therefore it would be correct to say that evolution is widely accepted as fact and there is no comparable theory based on known natural law. Picking flaws in a theory is fine,thats what expands our knowledge, but stubbornly refusing to recognise a probability is just stupid and ignorant.
You have chosen to take an uncompromising stand in regards to literal scripture,which puts you in a huge minority even amongst Christians, this however disadvantages you when confronted with logical thought and reduces you to stonewalling debate. This particular brand of faith does not educate or open ones eyes, it simply narrows them until you become blinded to all that you do not wish to see.

It's not 99.9 % Lets keep it official shall we?


1997-NOV data is little changed. Note the massive differences between the beliefs of the general population and of scientists:
Belief system Creationist view Theistic evolution Naturalistic
Everyone 44% 39% 10%
Scientists 5% 40% 55%

Yep sorry Jay the exact figure was 99.86 % and comes from the same source as your figures which only add up to 95% , despite the organisations best efforts to put creationism in the most positive light.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm