Conquer Club

dagreatbroomhead wrote:P.S. i am sorry, really bad joke, kinda went over the line there(if you believe)

The Christians are lucky that Jesus was crucified in Roman times and not executed in the more modern era. If he was executed in the last 50 years everyone would be walking around with little electric chairs around their necks.

vtmarik wrote:The Christians are lucky that Jesus was crucified in Roman times and not executed in the more modern era. If he was executed in the last 50 years everyone would be walking around with little electric chairs around their necks.

haha, or a noose

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

vtmarik wrote:The Christians are lucky that Jesus was crucified in Roman times and not executed in the more modern era. If he was executed in the last 50 years everyone would be walking around with little electric chairs around their necks.

haha, or a noose

Or syringes in their arms...

If Jesus was this smug and patronising it's no wonder the romans nailed him up.

And i hate the look that goes with it, that 'i pity your eternally damned heathen soul' look. If heaven is full of these arseholes, give me hell anyday. I can hang out with bill hicks instead.

jay_a2j wrote:Evolution my friend is an imposibility.... Science teaches the ability to SPEAK is a LEARNED behavior! Who then taught the apes to speak? and not just 1 language but hundreds of them????

Furthermore if evolution is always happening WHY do we not see it all around us??? Perhaps a bird with gills or a lizard with feathers?? Even a single fossil of a gekko growing a wing bone! EVOLUTION IS A LIE.... much like the drivel you posted.

Oh my... Ok, here we go. Class 101 on evolution. "Evolution" is part of the thing we call "biology" and can be defined as the measurable change in the heritable traits of a population over successive generations. The key-word here is "generation." Even though long-time concepts such as "generations" or the geologic time scale of "eons" may be hard to grasp for the MTV-generation there actually are developments that fall outside the from of "instant."

Anyway, today's understanding of evolution is based on Darwin's and Russel Wallace's theory of natural selection (that was back in the 1850's, now there's a neo-Darwinism around). Basically, evolution is the changes that take place within a population's gene bank from one generation to another. There are mechanisms that produce these changes (natural selection and genetic drift due to mutation, genetic recombination and gene flow). Even though occurring on a tiny scale, evolution is a powerful thing that is - in fact - ultimately the source of the vast diversity of the biological world. Over time, the evolutionary process has - and will - result in the origin of new species (which is called "speciation").

When claiming that evolution is impossible etc. I guess you refer to the so called "creationist" arguments. Well, about "speciation" (i.e. the origin of new species) and the claim that it has never been directly observed - that is simply wrong. In fact, speciation has been directly observed. See, http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html#part5

Regarding the origin of language - you have an entire science dedicated to that field (called glottogony or glossogeny). Most languages today can be classified into language families. It's not an easy task to track a language since most languages have a very short recorded history. But, it is done by using a comparative method (which is a method that reconstructs a language). Anyway, going way back it's known that, at least once during human evolution, a system of verbal communication emerged from previous non-linguistic means of communication. However, beyond that there is not that much to be said (after all, we're talking about some pretty vast time scales here... MTV-generation beware).

All in all. I don't see your point. You make all sorts of statements, but I see little that backs them up.

I thought this post died out (along with the apes that became umm human). Speech is a learned behavior, your post did not address this. If you put a newborn baby in a room, feed him, love him, care for him but NEVER speak to that child...It will never speak. Why? Because you have to be taught to speak. Thus a bunch of apes will always be just that, a bunch of apes. Unless someone taught them to speak, evolution meets a barrior (one of many).

jay_a2j wrote:I thought this post died out (along with the apes that became umm human). Speech is a learned behavior, your post did not address this. If you put a newborn baby in a room, feed him, love him, care for him but NEVER speak to that child...It will never speak. Why? Because you have to be taught to speak. Thus a bunch of apes will always be just that, a bunch of apes. Unless someone taught them to speak, evolution meets a barrior (one of many).

Um, may I interject?

Language is not necessary for the progression and subsequent alteration of genetic codes.

Thank you.

*bows*

vtmarik wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:I thought this post died out (along with the apes that became umm human). Speech is a learned behavior, your post did not address this. If you put a newborn baby in a room, feed him, love him, care for him but NEVER speak to that child...It will never speak. Why? Because you have to be taught to speak. Thus a bunch of apes will always be just that, a bunch of apes. Unless someone taught them to speak, evolution meets a barrior (one of many).

Um, may I interject?

Language is not necessary for the progression and subsequent alteration of genetic codes.

Thank you.

*bows*

Everyone knows languages came after God destroyed the tower of Babel. Humans tried to build a tower to reach heaven and God made them speak different languages to stop them.

Never mind the fact that regular office towers are taller, and that we reached outer space (didn't find god there). Maybe god created an alternate universe in which the story was true and then put it into the bible. yeah, that must be it

pilate065 wrote:Everyone knows languages came after God destroyed the tower of Babel. Humans tried to build a tower to reach heaven and God made them speak different languages to stop them.

Never mind the fact that regular office towers are taller, and that we reached outer space (didn't find god there). Maybe god created an alternate universe in which the story was true and then put it into the bible. yeah, that must be it

Well, if we go by the theory that there are more than 3 spatial dimensions, then God-forms can exist in the 4th spatial dimension which is at right angles to reality.

Check out the book Surfing through Hyperspace for more info.

^^^ We could just be in a pocket of 3 dimensions, lots of fun reading on such things.


--Andy

vtmarik wrote:

pilate065 wrote:Everyone knows languages came after God destroyed the tower of Babel. Humans tried to build a tower to reach heaven and God made them speak different languages to stop them.

Never mind the fact that regular office towers are taller, and that we reached outer space (didn't find god there). Maybe god created an alternate universe in which the story was true and then put it into the bible. yeah, that must be it

Well, if we go by the theory that there are more than 3 spatial dimensions, then God-forms can exist in the 4th spatial dimension which is at right angles to reality.

Check out the book Surfing through Hyperspace for more info.

It's possible, i'll give you that.

But it's MORE possible, that the Tower of Babel is simply a story that...

1) teaches people to be humble
2) explains the origin of language

Seriously, I don't expect antiquity Israelites to have knowledge of modern physics.

pilate065 wrote:It's possible, i'll give you that.

But it's MORE possible, that the Tower of Babel is simply a story that...

1) teaches people to be humble
2) explains the origin of language

Seriously, I don't expect antiquity Israelites to have knowledge of modern physics.

Hey, I'm all for being humble. Remembering those four magic words is difficult but it can be done.

My problem with a story like the Tower of Babel is that it doesn't explain anything. It's because it's just a story. Like the story of the Sky Goat coming along and eating part of the moon every so often doesn't really explain anything about lunar phases.

It's great as a fable or an allegory, but it sucks as history.

vtmarik wrote:My problem with a story like the Tower of Babel is that it doesn't explain anything. It's because it's just a story. Like the story of the Sky Goat coming along and eating part of the moon every so often doesn't really explain anything about lunar phases.

It's great as a fable or an allegory, but it sucks as history.

The tower of babel explains alot.

1. Where all the languages came from

2. Where all the races came from.



When God saw that nothing would be impossible for man because they all spoke the same tounge, He scattered them giving them different tounges.


Now caucasions originated in europe, blacks in africa, asians in asia, indians in north and south america. All were separate. Now we are to believe that apes evolves into man? Where these apes different kinds of apes to get the different races? Evolution is just not believable.... and still does not answer the language question or the ORGIN of life question.

jay_a2j wrote:

vtmarik wrote:My problem with a story like the Tower of Babel is that it doesn't explain anything. It's because it's just a story. Like the story of the Sky Goat coming along and eating part of the moon every so often doesn't really explain anything about lunar phases.

It's great as a fable or an allegory, but it sucks as history.

The tower of babel explains alot.

1. Where all the languages came from

2. Where all the races came from.

.

Like vtmarik said, it's a good story.

Calling it a "story" doesn't make it one. Just as not believing in God doesn't make Him any less real.

jay_a2j wrote:Now caucasions originated in europe, blacks in africa, asians in asia, indians in north and south america. All were separate. Now we are to believe that apes evolves into man? Where these apes different kinds of apes to get the different races? Evolution is just not believable.... and still does not answer the language question or the ORGIN of life question.

Okay you should stop. Theories are ad hoc, you ignore facts and definitions, you decide on a conclusion and work backwards from there.

Evolution is believable. You are not.

(Oh, by the way, Catholics agree that evolution is perfectly acceptable in their religion. Given Catholics came first and YOU GUYS split off from them, you're probably wrong even in a theological sense. Haven't you ever thought that maybe god made evolution? Oh sure, you USE him to explain all your AD HOC theories, but god making evolution is impossible)

jay_a2j wrote:Calling it a "story" doesn't make it one. Just as not believing in God doesn't make Him any less real.

You have a problem with definitions

yes it is impossible...because it contradicts His word.

pilate065 wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Calling it a "story" doesn't make it one. Just as not believing in God doesn't make Him any less real.

You have a problem with definitions

you seem to have a problem with God.

Language evolved, like we did. Dogs bark, birds sing, crickets chirp, bees dance, dolphins click. Animals communicate. Language is highly evolved grunting. Evolution explains absolutely everything. There is not one part of the living world - no organ, cell, behaviour or attribute - that cumulative natural selection cannot account for. Try and name one.


And as for the rest: The tower of Babel, Genesis; these were early attempts to explain the origins of life, the universe and language. Every ancient culture has a creation myth - and that's all these stories are. They were and are valuable, they are compelling and well-told tales, but they are still just part of a mythology. Like Mount Olympus or the Dreamtime. And why anyone, even christians, would feel compelled to take it literally is beyond me.

yes it is impossible...because it contradicts His word.

Here is the problem. You cannot argue with this, even though it flies in the face of scientific method, reason and common sense, because to do so is like banging your head off a wall.

Language evolves eh? What gets me is people believe things like "language evolved" and do not believe in God! In order for language to evolve it would have to do so extreamly rapidly! Like in one lifetime. The evolution of speech is an atheists dream nothing more. It's not even logical. We have taught apes sign language but I have yet to see an ape teach their young sign language! It can not be done.

What does the bible say about lesbians & gays?

The Bible says, "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:9-10)

And most of us fall into at least one of these catagories. But God made a way through His son. God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

jay_a2j wrote:

There is 0% chance God does not exist.

Ignorant.

jay_a2j wrote:I thought this post died out (along with the apes that became umm human). Speech is a learned behavior, your post did not address this. If you put a newborn baby in a room, feed him, love him, care for him but NEVER speak to that child...It will never speak. Why? Because you have to be taught to speak. Thus a bunch of apes will always be just that, a bunch of apes. Unless someone taught them to speak, evolution meets a barrior (one of many).

Just because something is a learned behavior(speech) doesn't mean it can only be taught through mimicing. I would think that much of evolution arose from need. Wheter that means a need for an ability or need for survival, etc. , etc. If that baby is never spoken to, then it finds alternate forms of communication, and speaking is unnecessarry.