Conquer Club

Metsfanmax wrote:Nice! legion is confirmed town now, and while I suppose it's possible that some other mechanic is at play here, this is by far the best scum hint we have (or are likely to get) today.

Metsfanmax wrote:Wait, what? I didn't add any information to what you already had, and you went from "we should be careful" to "this is obviously correct?"

You said it's the best case at the moment and I agreed as there is no way to prove there is possible (in italics as you wrote) change of mechanics. So yeah, while it was a blatant bandwagon onto the best case, I don't see what's wrong here?

Im sure there are a bunch of mechanics at play right now. The point of contention now would be Ragian which I am unsure why they put off the explanation but that will have to be dealt with later. I believe that this mechanic that legion brought is more than likely true because even the title of the day was "Intact?" which leads to the point that something was going to happen.

As for other mechanics, there is always the Busser retort but once Ragian claims, we can deal with that path of logic since they seem to be hinting at that. I am curious to see what comes of it cause there are a few pieces of the scene that still dont make sense.

dakky21 wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Nice! legion is confirmed town now, and while I suppose it's possible that some other mechanic is at play here, this is by far the best scum hint we have (or are likely to get) today.

Metsfanmax wrote:Wait, what? I didn't add any information to what you already had, and you went from "we should be careful" to "this is obviously correct?"

You said it's the best case at the moment and I agreed as there is no way to prove there is possible (in italics as you wrote) change of mechanics. So yeah, while it was a blatant bandwagon onto the best case, I don't see what's wrong here?

This is mafia. People don't change their mind in response to reasoned arguments. When they do, I get suspicious

nag's point is pretty important, why would scum have targeted mitch for a kill last night, especially if Ragian was the scum in question? Totally doesn't seem his MO. If I were him and I were scum, I'd have gone after someone more dangerous. With that being said, it doesn't clear Ragian. He could still have sent in a scum kill. People have suggested busdriver mechanics; if there's a bus in the game, maybe the bus was responsible for changing targets, if he didn't target mitch himself. If I were a bus driver, I'd definitely switch with whoever I cared about protecting, and mitch. But, if you're the bus driver and you did this, probably best not to reveal yourself until it's necessary.

Also agree with the others, the longer Ragian takes to give his own side of the story, the more suspicious it looks.

Metsfanmax wrote:

dakky21 wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Nice! legion is confirmed town now, and while I suppose it's possible that some other mechanic is at play here, this is by far the best scum hint we have (or are likely to get) today.

Metsfanmax wrote:Wait, what? I didn't add any information to what you already had, and you went from "we should be careful" to "this is obviously correct?"

You said it's the best case at the moment and I agreed as there is no way to prove there is possible (in italics as you wrote) change of mechanics. So yeah, while it was a blatant bandwagon onto the best case, I don't see what's wrong here?

This is mafia. People don't change their mind in response to reasoned arguments. When they do, I get suspicious

nag's point is pretty important, why would scum have targeted mitch for a kill last night, especially if Ragian was the scum in question? Totally doesn't seem his MO. If I were him and I were scum, I'd have gone after someone more dangerous. With that being said, it doesn't clear Ragian. He could still have sent in a scum kill. People have suggested busdriver mechanics; if there's a bus in the game, maybe the bus was responsible for changing targets, if he didn't target mitch himself. If I were a bus driver, I'd definitely switch with whoever I cared about protecting, and mitch. But, if you're the bus driver and you did this, probably best not to reveal yourself until it's necessary.

Also agree with the others, the longer Ragian takes to give his own side of the story, the more suspicious it looks.

No one has attempted to claim bus yet, nor has anyone said that they have been bussed. But here's this piece that we've forgotten about since this Mitch thing blew out.

Fircoal wrote:

Samlen wrote:What a jolly game so far. Maybe the mafia fell asleep from boredom =p Buuut do you plan on elaborating on your post fircoal? If you roleblocked someone they could likely be mafia or if you protected someone they could likely have been their target which would make them town. Or is that just a general 'ha mafia didn't do anything'?

Oh I have my reasons. But I don't think now is a good time to share why I do what I do.

As soon as I suspected Mitch, Fircoal hasn't said anything in the past few days. Whether this is the BD we're all wondering about raises the question.
Not trying to change the subject, but Fircoal hasn't said anything at all these past couple days.

Official vote count tonight. I'll verify later but I believe RagIan is at L2.

f*ck me. You can't leave for one boozie footie match without everyone thinking that it's stalling despite no one having been involved in the game so far. That's friggin' lame (cursing modified three times). Also, I'm very impressed that some think it's controversial that I haven't just barfed out my role and my night ability the minute Legion offered his piece of information.

Now, as mentioned I do have a night action, and since, apparently, I'm at L-2, I'll spill the beans: I'm Paul Edgecomb and last night I jailed Samlen. Given him entertaining a no lynch, I figured that he might be a valuable asset to preserve (PR), fearing that if I had that figured out, so would scum.

This is not a defence. I can't defend against what Legion is saying. If he targetted me last night, I have no reason to believe that his action did not go through, and therefore I do understand why he's gunning for me (I would've done the same thing). All I'm saying is that if you lynch me, do not let the lynch go to waste; there have been two opportinist votes for my blood: Dakky and DDS as I see it.

Lastly, if there's a busdriver who's tampered with this, don't claim-claim. We've lost a cop already and a busdriver is a valuable. Instead, read people's reactions to my claim and act accordingly. There's no reason for any busdriver to paint a target on her/his back.

As you were. I'm going to crash.

Well that's interesting. If I remember correctly, jailing is a roleblock/protect in one. I did not take any action last night, so I cannot confirm on whether or not I was roleblocked (Unless I'm supposed to be notified when I'm jailed). Though if legion's claim is truthful, then would that mean I'm jailed during this day? There're a lot of what-ifs and whatnot.
Possibilities:
Legion is mafia that got inno'd because of being godfather or lawyer ability and used this oppurtunity to fakeclaim/place blame on someone else
Coincidence: Mafia kill was blocked/delayed/is day kill and legion just happened to target ragian the jailer
Busdriver -> meaning whomever the busdriver bussed with ragian is likely mafia
Ragian is mafia and has just fakeclaimed. The problem with this one is if I HAD taken an action last night, I could have confirmed/denied if I was roleblocked, making ragian's claim more likely to be real than not.
Mafia sided roleblocker

I love having no solid info, makes the possibilities endless...

Wouldn't there be a notification if you were jailed regardless of action taken?

I don't know. It depends on the host and whatever modifications they made to the role. But if he was lying why choose jailer which, in most cases, can be easily proven/disproved?

Samlen may I ask why you took no action at night?

DirtyDishSoap wrote:Wouldn't there be a notification if you were jailed regardless of action taken?

Agree with Samlen. A lot of mods won't notify you.

TimWoodbury wrote:Samlen may I ask why you took no action at night?

I do not feel like that is information that should be revealed right now.

Vote Count

Ragian (3)-Legion, Dakky, DDS
Samlen (1)-Tim
Legion
DDS
Dakky
Mets
Tim
Nag
Skoffin
Chu
Djfireside

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

So you know about the poison then you claim to have taken no night action and won't reveal why my vote stays on you. Your hiding things that could help us figure out what happened last night and I don't like it.

Metsfanmax wrote:

DirtyDishSoap wrote:Wouldn't there be a notification if you were jailed regardless of action taken?

Agree with Samlen. A lot of mods won't notify you.

Well with that, there's nothing more to go on. I still would like to hear from Fircoal or even Skoffin at this point, whom I'm guessing are lurking about.

Unvote Ragian

TimWoodbury wrote:So you know about the poison then you claim to have taken no night action and won't reveal why my vote stays on you. Your hiding things that could help us figure out what happened last night and I don't like it.

Know? All I have said in regards to poison was speculation. I'm assuming this is poor wording on your part, but you make it sound like YOU know it's poison, which would make you mafia. As in regards for not revealing my exact reasoning, it's to keep information from the mafia. Telling the town my reasoning won't help us but it would certainly help the mafia.

Samlen wrote:

TimWoodbury wrote:So you know about the poison then you claim to have taken no night action and won't reveal why my vote stays on you. Your hiding things that could help us figure out what happened last night and I don't like it.

Know? All I have said in regards to poison was speculation. I'm assuming this is poor wording on your part, but you make it sound like YOU know it's poison, which would make you mafia. As in regards for not revealing my exact reasoning, it's to keep information from the mafia. Telling the town my reasoning won't help us but it would certainly help the mafia.

Defo agree here. However, knowing Tim, it could be written off as poorly phrased. I think he genuinely thinks that you know something about poison and that you have intel that could clear/incriminate me. Taken out of thin air, though.

Could we prod some of the inactive players? Unless, of course, they're scumarining hoping that I'm going down

I'm unsure if what he knows helps or hurts you raigan guess you could say a little tunell vision on my part. Between ga and salmen I got bad vibes

Pretty sure ga isn't in this game. While talking about inactive people, I forgot the skoffin and fircoal were apart of this game >,> I'm pretty sure a couple others disappeared for the past couple days too.

You sir are correct I was thinking ga7 from the other one so guess I'm getting a bad vibe from you. I'll reread d1 and d2 today see if I can get off the tunnel vision

Tim, he has clearly stated that he doesn't know anything that might clear this up. He never performed an action last night (if he has one or not).

DirtyDishSoap wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

DirtyDishSoap wrote:Wouldn't there be a notification if you were jailed regardless of action taken?

Agree with Samlen. A lot of mods won't notify you.

Well with that, there's nothing more to go on. I still would like to hear from Fircoal or even Skoffin at this point, whom I'm guessing are lurking about.

Not even lurking. Just hadn't paid attention to this thread for a couple of days. Just finished reading through the thread. I'll post my thoughts.

Ok so we've had two sort of wagons here and in my eyes both of them seem scummy. Here is at least my reasoning for why:

Mitch: Well let's face it, mitch is a bad player. But is he this bad of a player? Maybe. My biggest issue with this is what mitch himself had said:

madmitch wrote:Well Legion is still alive , I guess he may have been protected or might be mafia or just got lucky again, or maybe he is truly an innocent person ? have to rethink everything

What part of this statement makes you all think that mitch could have been mafia who targeted legion? First off legion is a very weird pick for a nigh kill considering how the last day had gone. Second off talking about a lynch makes more sense since legion was the guy that was just in line to get lynched. Third, in all of his wordage it more wanders around than offer anything else in there. Yes I get the issue with saying "He may have been protected", but considering what had happened before it's much more likely that he was talking about the previous day and not the night. Also if he is slipping up the might be mafia part sorta counters the slip from before. Considering it's mitch and legion was the last choice it seems like a weak attempt to try to start a bandwagon.



The second wagon is the Ragian wagon which again seems weak. Yes legions action on legion would make sense with why the kill was so delayed but think about it for a second.

What's more likely:
Ragian targeted mitch.
Ragian targeted someone else who happened to be driven with mitch.
Someone day kill ability tried to kill the claimed cop.

To me it's clear that option 3 is the most likely option. He pretty much claimed cop, that's an easy sign for someone to try to kill. And considering this is an unbalenced and NV set up it's very possible that there is a daykiller. And in fact because of legion's power it's even more likely. It creates more muck. More confusion and stuff like that. If there's one power that can send to day why stop there? Why not introduce more and really mess with things?

the other stories just seem too convient. Furthermore Ragian's claim was quite risky and it's going to be easy enough to test in later days. If he doesn't block like he says he has we'll know that he's a baddie. The one thing that gives me pause is that he could be a bad gut with a jailing ability. So while the claim is nice it doesn't exactly clear him.

What I think is stronger is the fact that is there was a daykiller the mitch kill is obvious. That and targeting mitch night seems like something no one would ever do. Both options 2 and 3 rely on a specific role being in there but 3 makes more sense than 2 does.


As far as it goes DDS has been on both of these bandwagons, which to me seems pretty suspect. What I'm not sure is if he's just unaware to the new meta of our games or if he's trying to play that up in order to defend the weak wagons that he's joining on.

More than anything I feel like this Ragian wagon might have some scum on it. Dakky, DDS, and mets would you care to explain?

Fircoal wrote:More than anything I feel like this Ragian wagon might have some scum on it. Dakky, DDS, and mets would you care to explain?

I think I explained myself already. Legion stated what was his action, I concluded that might be true while also thinking it's possible that mitch/ragian was bussed, because who would kill mitch during night... and then mets jumped in and concluded the fact we probably won't have a better scum tell today and there you go, blatant change of mind and jump on the wagon. I'm not trying here to defend myself, rather a summary of what happened. My vote stays on Ragian as, again, we do not have better option currently.

Fircoal wrote:Ok so we've had two sort of wagons here and in my eyes both of them seem scummy. Here is at least my reasoning for why:

Mitch: Well let's face it, mitch is a bad player. But is he this bad of a player? Maybe. My biggest issue with this is what mitch himself had said:

madmitch wrote:Well Legion is still alive , I guess he may have been protected or might be mafia or just got lucky again, or maybe he is truly an innocent person ? have to rethink everything

Fircoal wrote:What part of this statement makes you all think that mitch could have been mafia who targeted legion? First off legion is a very weird pick for a nigh kill considering how the last day had gone. Second off talking about a lynch makes more sense since legion was the guy that was just in line to get lynched. Third, in all of his wordage it more wanders around than offer anything else in there. Yes I get the issue with saying "He may have been protected", but considering what had happened before it's much more likely that he was talking about the previous day and not the night. Also if he is slipping up the might be mafia part sorta counters the slip from before. Considering it's mitch and legion was the last choice it seems like a weak attempt to try to start a bandwagon.

I don't know Mitch, so when I get the explanation that "Mitch is just Mitch", it's a flimsy argument. See my village idiot statements. No one would suspect him for scum just for being Mitch. Is this point not clear enough for everybody yet? 2nd, I went ahead with what Dakky had said with "possible" slip. At the time, it was the only thing we had, and then you disappeared when that happened, and then for most of the Ragian wagon. Skoffin as well.

Fircoal wrote:The second wagon is the Ragian wagon which again seems weak. Yes legions action on legion would make sense with why the kill was so delayed but think about it for a second.

What's more likely:
Ragian targeted mitch.

Ragian wrote: Now, as mentioned I do have a night action, and since, apparently, I'm at L-2, I'll spill the beans: I'm Paul Edgecomb and last night I jailed Samlen.

Either you purposfulley misquoted this, misread, or skimmed past it.

Ragian targeted someone else who happened to be driven with mitch.

We've established that Ragian has claimed that he targeted Samlen. Actually, the more I just think about it, the more likely it is, considering that Mitch claimed that legion was non suspicious. No one has claimed for bussing, however, but the theory is out there.

Someone day kill ability tried to kill the claimed cop.
This is the only valid thing we've came across, other than what Legion had claimed, which is bold and risky.

Bolded for counter.

Fircoal wrote:To me it's clear that option 3 is the most likely option. He pretty much claimed cop, that's an easy sign for someone to try to kill. And considering this is an unbalenced and NV set up it's very possible that there is a daykiller. And in fact because of legion's power it's even more likely. It creates more muck. More confusion and stuff like that. If there's one power that can send to day why stop there? Why not introduce more and really mess with things?

the other stories just seem too convient. Furthermore Ragian's claim was quite risky and it's going to be easy enough to test in later days. If he doesn't block like he says he has we'll know that he's a baddie. The one thing that gives me pause is that he could be a bad gut with a jailing ability. So while the claim is nice it doesn't exactly clear him.

What I think is stronger is the fact that is there was a daykiller the mitch kill is obvious. That and targeting mitch night seems like something no one would ever do. Both options 2 and 3 rely on a specific role being in there but 3 makes more sense than 2 does.


As far as it goes DDS has been on both of these bandwagons, which to me seems pretty suspect. What I'm not sure is if he's just unaware to the new meta of our games or if he's trying to play that up in order to defend the weak wagons that he's joining on.

More than anything I feel like this Ragian wagon might have some scum on it. Dakky, DDS, and mets would you care to explain?

I'll admit that I had started the wagon on Mitch, and I pressed it for the reasons stated earlier.
Second, as stated by Dakky, and Mets earlier, it was the only thing we could go off of. If you have some sort of lead, then by all means, throw it out there, investigate it, but at this moment, this conudrum we have with Ragian, Samlen and Legion is the only lead we have.