real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

[Dako]

he found a loophole in the rules and abused it. This is what people want changed.

then why blame him constantly? blame the ones who made loophole if you think that loophole is made, and try to change it for future. but dont try to get higher punishment for him for behaviour that no higher punishment are declared in current rules.

I think 70% of the people here are discussing the loophole, not the punishment.

[rouge_baron]

I just don't see what the thought process would be behind Blitz taking down a guy's score so that he could get the odd additional point here and there through teaming up with him. If he was that worried about it, then he wouldn't be playing clandemonium games with lieutenants and captains... he tends to take the lead in those games (for obvious reasons) and so would benefit much more from teaming up with stripes for those passive team member roles.

He seems to me to be a person that plays with a wide range of players, against a wide range of players... why would he intentially take down the score of a friend who is present in such a small proportion of his games? I've looked after accounts before where I've accepted new game requests because I don't want those people to miss out on the games that are coming along. In those instances I expected the player to return and I'm sure it was the case for Blitz and Jobi... but it just didn't happen that way for special circumstances.

It feels as though a few people are 'piling on' a bit here. Like Zhukov, I don't usually get involved in all the politics, I'm just on here to play the game. All this feels like a bit of an over-reaction, no?

It would be good if baby-sitting could be done through the site to formalise it a bit... whereby a user gave another user permission to play his games in a set time window. Each game/turn could then be automatically stamped with the info. This way no passwords need to be swapped, and everything is transparent. I'm not sure if this is technically possible/desirable..?

[gdbudman]

Hey new recurits for my crybaby club , hurry its filling fast

[SirSebstar]

Hey new recurits for my crybaby club , hurry its filling fast

Not filled, but certainly locked:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=137506&p=3002186#p3002186

[TheMissionary]

I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

I haven't read past this post here yet.

So as members of a community who are paying for a service, we are overreacting when we are unsatisfied with the way the service is playing out? So if I understand you right, if you go to a restaurant and buy a meal that shows up cold and disgusting, you're still going to pay for it? I agree with CoF and Woodruff. As I said before, Blitz has been here far too long, and he has been far too community oriented to not know the rules. I've seen people banned for far less.

[pearljamrox2]

I also would just mention that, the original C and A report only mentioned point dumping and account sitting abuse.

What happens in 2 or 3 months when Jobiwan never comes back for his account. How long does Jobiwan need to be gone for you to think that it was just Blitz taking advantage of his abilities to play as a cook?

Maybe it wasn't some diabolical plan from the beginning. Maybe it was just something that kinda happened. But after a few times, he must have thought...somewhere in the back of his mind,...gee, ya know, this might be a little sketchy. And then continued to do it.

But all that shouldn't matter. Why would his thoughts and feelings(or really anything he says) about it really matter. All that matters is the actions.

Those actions again were...
1)joining cook to tournament games. and quad games w/Blitz
2)not playing said tournament games, allowing for points to be dumped, and tournaments to be disrupted and delayed
3)playing all the turns in his own games, as both himself and the cook

I'm sorry for Jobi and his loss of a loved one. Although it isn't exactly the same, my dog died in October. She was my best friend. I met her the day she was born, and i was there with her when she died. She was my little girl for 12 and a half years. I would have given my life to protect her. So it was very sad for me, Oct, Nov, Dec..and even now still. Every little thing in my life reminds me of her. So, there are definitely times for me, when some little computer game doesn't seem very important at all.

If it was a case of,"hey, my aunt died, she lives in a different state, i will be gone for the week to attend the funeral." That would be an appropriate situation to have an account sitter.

But, if it was someone much closer, something that changes your whole world, and you have no intention, or ability to carry on with life as normal. This is different. If Jobi just doesn't care anymore, and has left indefinitely, then what Blitz has done is take over a dormant account. It must have been so hard for him to know a premium cook was going to waste, and he had the password.

Account sitting is like babysitting. "hi. I have to go to work, and i can't bring my child with me. Could you stay and watch over, and make sure he isn't neglected and keep him safe"

I understand the rules don't say anything about having to take a players turns when you are sitting for them, obviously. But to put things into context, Blitz wasn't doing Jobi a favor. He wasn't concerned for his friend and just trying to help him out. He wasn't sitting his account. That would have required him taking Jobi's turns. All Blitz did was join Jobi to his team in some games, and played those games, for his own selfish reasons. You can't even call that account sitting. That is simply Blitz playing under an alias. It's not account sitting. It's account adoption....or at the very least, having a foster account.

It's like cinderella. There was cinderella, cleaning the toilets and washing the walls. Then the wicked step mother would hold parties, and all the guest would comment on how beautiful the place was, and how did she have such pretty nails and how were her hands so soft, and without callouses.

I'm not jealous of Blitz, by the way. I'm quite happy with my rank/points. I know i will never be Conqueror, whether Blitz is up there or not. There are just too many great players. Too many highly skilled Freestylers, too many farmers. I enjoy tournaments, team games, 6 man escalating..and 5 man assassins. I don't care enough to change games to reach the top. The only thing i do on purpose to gain more points is to try to win every game i play. I do, however, call bullshit when i see it. And i would say, this one buried the needle on my BS meter.

[AndyDufresne]

It's clear that Blitzaholic is a polarizing figure---but I think everyone has long knew that. It's clear that there is a lot of opinion regarding those for and against Blitz---or however your choose to delineate the sides. It's clear that a portion of the Community would like to case re-looked at, so I'm going to use my executive authority to reopen the case for investigation.

Lets all look at the evidence again, and in a line by line sort of manner, and see if we can also reconstruct the timeline.

The primary concerns seem to revolve around both Account Sitting/Point Dumping (and taking turns or not) and a general Gross Abuse of the game. So:

What is game by game list of the real games in question?

----> Lets go to this new topic to discuss the evidence.: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=143145

This topic can remain for other area of public discussion.


--Andy

[Dako]

Thank you, Andy.

[Fruitcake]

Admin (Andy) has reopened the case (and well done you)

Let's all quietly review what actually happened.

[AndyDufresne]

Let's all quietly review what actually happened.

Well, we don't have to be super quiet, but as long as we are all discussing the whole of the evidence in a generally calm manner, I think we can get to the bottom of everything.

If anyone has vitriol, please try to keep it out of the new C&A topic.

And as always, your help in compiling the evidence and facts of the case are welcomed.


--Andy

[Chariot of Fire]

Plaudits for reopening this case - an excellent step in the right direction to resolving this matter when in possession of all the salient details.

PearlJam....excellent post (very moving, though I hope your aunt doesn't read it). You made Points 1-3 and I believe there's room for a 4th - a very important one. It's the creation of new games, e.g. Game 8771781 after knowing Jobiwan was absent yet still inviting him and subsequently joining him into those games and playing his turns. This goes beyond other examples where one might say "Well the game had been created and he'd already joined it before he vanished and we then waited two weeks for the oppo to fill the slots". Oh no. This is a premeditated example of setting up games in the knowledge the other party you are bringing in is absent yet you will knowingly be taking his turns (while at the same time not taking any turns in his other games).

Cold, calculated and cunning.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

I haven't read past this post here yet.

So as members of a community who are paying for a service, we are overreacting when we are unsatisfied with the way the service is playing out? So if I understand you right, if you go to a restaurant and buy a meal that shows up cold and disgusting, you're still going to pay for it? I agree with CoF and Woodruff. As I said before, Blitz has been here far too long, and he has been far too community oriented to not know the rules. I've seen people banned for far less.

This is in no way the equivalent of walking out because your meal showing up cold and disgusting. It's the equivalent of walking out because the guy sitting five tables away from you got free dessert with his meal.

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, the point of my post was that sure, you might be annoyed about perceived inconsistency among the admins. But that ought not affect your enjoyment of the games you're currently playing, should it? Sure, some people were hurt by the tournament games Jobiwan was joined into by Blitz, but unfortunately the rules protected that action.

[Metsfanmax]

Oh no. This is a premeditated example of setting up games in the knowledge the other party you are bringing in is absent yet you will knowingly be taking his turns (while at the same time not taking any turns in his other games).

Cold, calculated and cunning.

Yes, he was found guilty of this action and punished accordingly. I'm not sure what any of you want the admins to do. Even if you can somehow wrangle them into finding him guilty on other counts, can you justify an action like a point reset or a temp ban? I mean really, justify it, which no one yet has done. You've all said the current punishment wasn't strong enough, but you haven't made any arguments as to how those other punishments would do anything other than satisfy your desire for retribution. Do you think Blitz didn't get the point from this whole debacle? Do you really think he's going to risk doing it again? I think it's evident that the point was made.

[owenshooter]

the case has been reopened in C&A... obviously those that questioned the ruling have made enough of a case to have it seriously reviewed and reconsidered.-the black jesus

Oh no. This is a premeditated example of setting up games in the knowledge the other party you are bringing in is absent yet you will knowingly be taking his turns (while at the same time not taking any turns in his other games).

Cold, calculated and cunning.

Yes, he was found guilty of this action and punished accordingly. I'm not sure what any of you want the admins to do. Even if you can somehow wrangle them into finding him guilty on other counts, can you justify an action like a point reset or a temp ban? I mean really, justify it, which no one yet has done. You've all said the current punishment wasn't strong enough, but you haven't made any arguments as to how those other punishments would do anything other than satisfy your desire for retribution. Do you think Blitz didn't get the point from this whole debacle? Do you really think he's going to risk doing it again? I think it's evident that the point was made.

[Metsfanmax]

the case has been reopened in C&A... obviously those that questioned the ruling have made enough of a case to have it seriously reviewed and reconsidered.-the black jesus

What you've done is to make enough noise to get it noticed by Andy, who didn't say he agreed with the content of your criticism; the point of the review is to confirm whether the initial decision was correct. Complain loud enough about anything and you'll get noticed; that doesn't mean your comments are more valid.

[pearljamrox2]

though I hope your aunt doesn't read it.

Ouch. Yea, that didn't sound right. Bad example for me personally, I love all of my aunts very much. Any death is a sad time for someone. Some just hit you harder than others. That's all I meant.

[owenshooter]

i haven't bashed blitz or even given an opinion other than i don't think the full scope of what happened was reviewed by the admins/mods. if you follow the evidence, a 1500 point dump occurred and that is troubling. toss in tournaments were ruined and severely delayed, and an account was frozen and it needs to be looked at to figure out what happened, when it happened, and to make sure it never happens again. what i am troubled by is the fact that jobi was punished for actions he took no part in, and his account is still being controlled by the person that created the point dump (intentional or unintentional)... it needs to be reviewed. this thread stayed on topic, people offered up lots of evidence that wasn't able to be posted in the C&A thread due to a premature lock (there wasn't any flaming or baiting in there either)... that is all i ever thought was needed. i like blitz, i have played like 500 games with him, but i find this whole thing confusing and troubling...-the black jesus

the case has been reopened in C&A... obviously those that questioned the ruling have made enough of a case to have it seriously reviewed and reconsidered.-the black jesus

What you've done is to make enough noise to get it noticed by Andy, who didn't say he agreed with the content of your criticism; the point of the review is to confirm whether the initial decision was correct. Complain loud enough about anything and you'll get noticed; that doesn't mean your comments are more valid.

[Metsfanmax]

i haven't bashed blitz or even given an opinion other than i don't think the full scope of what happened was reviewed by the admins/mods.

Well, that's an interesting point, and I don't think it was really made clear before. Most people aren't arguing that the admins don't have a full understanding of the situation; they were arguing that the admins did know what was going on, and let Blitz off lightly - that is, they disagreed with the decision made, not with the process used to make that decision. If you have evidence to suggest that the admins were lacking information when they made their decision, that should be stressed much more than anything else being said here.

[Funkyterrance]

Joski Wrote: "I think warning is enough punishment. admins should respect what Blitz did for CC in last few years, including medal for noteworthy contribution that he got, and many other activities, including reporting cheaters."

While this all may be true I don't think it really is evidence of sterling character. A lot of players contribute just for the sake of getting a better standing in the community or even purely for the sake of the medal itself (I have seen people admit to this). I am not saying I know what his motives were for helping out in these areas I am just saying that it could go either way. Also, while it may seem illogical and hypocritical, cheaters can get VERY upset when someone else dares to cheat. It has something to do with ego lol.

[Seulessliathan]

If people break the rules, then it doesn´t matter if they got any contribution medals before or not, rules are made for everybody.

[Leehar]

I however there is a difference between an honest mistake and an intentional cheat (for want of a better word.)
To me it all leads from motivation, nobody can really find any effective reason for Blitz to cheat here (and where much of the defense from Thota etc comes from) ergo, it seems to me that this was an unfortunate error with no other imperious objective, and in which case this needs to be approached accordingly.

[Denise]

I agree with that. If Blitz was manipulating Jobiwan's account for points, he should have a point reset. It's a judgment call. Hopefully the powers will have enough evidence to make the correct decision.

You post was good, pearljamrox2. It is more of a convincing post than many others.

[Chariot of Fire]

To me it all leads from motivation, nobody can really find any effective reason for Blitz to cheat here

OK, consider this. The guy has been Conqueror before (so nothing more to prove really). Now he is Conqueror again. Not only that but he is still creating his farming games. What for? Why the desire to earn more points when there's no-one above you?

So what motivates a guy who loves being at the top of every list? Maybe this.....

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=129507

[BoganGod]

I have accepted that I will never be conqueror. I enjoy team games, and playing with those that can play team games. I also enjoy teaching clan brothers/sisters team games not caring about their rank. I held brig for 15months, and could have gotten to field marshal and held it, but that would have affected both my enjoyment of the site, and my capicity to teach/mentor clan members and friends. In the pirates we help all members get manual, fog, all team, crossmap, etc. Any medals we can get together we do for members. This is not a pirate brag post. Just saying where I'm coming from. I've spent the last few months only taking turns, haven't had the time for forums. Started looking at forums, and it seems to be a bring blitz down theme. Rather than go after blitz, think about constructive, logical rule/structural changes maybe. Kill blitz, who does a lot for the site, someone else will climb to the top..... Maybe they won't do as much for the site. Tighten up the rules? Maybe have a few score sheets. Say a different rank for comparative rank of enemies etc. Rather than going after a possible symptom rather than the disease. Just think about it please kids.

[Funkyterrance]

Bogan, no offense but did you read the WHOLE thread?