Game Statistics

[Hamtrigger]

I hate this counter. A lot of the strategy in risk is being sneaky--making yourself look weak while actually being strong. This takes out alot of the fun of risk:(

[erikiscool]

Kind of a rip from BOB don't you think? In any case my suggestion would be to remove the navigation bar from the left side in game mode. It's not really necessary since you have the navigation buttons like "home" at the top. My screen is not wide enough to show it completely the way it is now.

[the.killing.44]

It's funny reading all the complainers who didn't realize people have BOB.

Kind of proves the point how even such a great and well-known plug-in like BOB only reaches a certain amount of CC.

[drunkmonkey]

I really do not like it. Part of the game of Risk, is to take the effort to count and figure out what your enemy will make. The territories occupied, and the cards are fine, but not he # of troops or how much they will get next turn. Would it be possible to make the stat thing optional on games?

So, counting is part of the strategy. Hm. 22 pages...it's amazing no one's brought this up yet.

[R.theghost]

For the players who are mad because noobs will be stronger, there is nothing no fear. Look: we learn how to count before we learn how to read so before that we cant know what the reinforcements and armies numbers mean, so those players can beat these kids that can count but cant read yet, say, less then 6 years old kids, in fact we should create a special forum for players under 6 years old and for the players who want to challenge them so they can find them easier
this idea should come in a new update... many people would be happy


this is how ridicule some of the complaints are...

[Elijah S]

I'm on the fence about this one...
One of the things that has given an attentive player an advantage over one who isn't paying attention is surveying a map and determining who's getting what bonuses, etc.
On the other hand, this update puts it all in black and white, reducing the time involved for everyone to make their moves.
So, from one perspective, we all save time, but from the other, an element of creating strategies and trying to gain an upper-hand as a result of greater involvement has been compromised.

I applaud the intentions, but don't think creating parity is a great benefit. -Besides, there's always BOB for those die-hard statistical players.

One thumb up and one thumb down.

Just goes to show, you can't please all the people all the time.

[AzureX]

I really dislike the stat bar. It takes the cerebral aspect of the game away. It takes away strategy. AND IT MAKES SPEED GAMES ALMOST POINTLESS.

Two thumbs down.

[nippersean]

I really dislike the stat bar. It takes the cerebral aspect of the game away. It takes away strategy. AND IT MAKES SPEED GAMES ALMOST POINTLESS.

Two thumbs down.

Is this satire?

[Caymanmew]

I really dislike the stat bar. It takes the cerebral aspect of the game away. It takes away strategy. AND IT MAKES SPEED GAMES ALMOST POINTLESS.

Two thumbs down.

i though speed game was there so you can have a fast game..
just becuase i know how many troops you have dose not mean there less stratagy the strategy is how you use the troops not if you have them

edit- great update lack thanks

[Hamtrigger]

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

[soundman]

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

Well said, I totally agree.

[R.theghost]

The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting.

yea its a great strategy... vs noobs... so u are also against this because it may make newbier players stronger?

[GRIMGOR]

I don't see what peoples problem is here

NO NEW INFORMATION IS GIVEN

[Bruceswar]

I don't see what peoples problem is here

NO NEW INFORMATION IS GIVEN

One of the drawbacks people are speaking of is something like this Player A has 3 troops left and player B has 30 and Player C who is moving has 25 + 4 to drop. Player D has 30

Cash is at 40 troops so killing player A with 4 cards locks the game up for you. B tried to kill A and missed. Now if C rushes his move or did not see A with 1 spot left then .... With the plugin it is near impossible to miss it now. It just gives those lazy players more reason to be lazy.

[sully800]

Bruce, you've argued against this addition for about 10 different reasons now. If there was something specific that you didn't like you would be fine by now because all of the previous points you made have been addressed. Now it seems that you just want to continue arguing. If you want to help improve a feature of the site that is fine, but arguing for the sake of it is not very productive. I understand that you don't appreciate the addition and that's okay - lack will never be able to please every user perfectly, but he does listen to input and that is the reason behind the "Game Layout Discussion" in the general forum.

Those same stats and same situation you just described have always been available through Grease Monkey. It is not possible to ban the grease monkey script or to prevent people from logging the number of territories in some other manner, so veteran's will always have an easier (ie faster and more efficient) time than new recruits and players who don't use the forums. So if your point is that you want to be able to beat New Recruits more easily, then there is still a valid argument...

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

Hamtrigger - I agree with you, one of the main points of this game is to use diplomacy to convince your opponents to attack each other and not you. This feature does not take that aspect of the game away, it just changes it a little bit. Now your opponents have all the info at a glance, but why does that mean you can't convince them that you are weaker than you really are?

Show how you have more troops but your opponent is expanding faster. Or the opposite. Or strike a deal and get a temporary alliance so you can quickly increase your strength before your opponent can do anything. All the same aspects of diplomacy and trickery are still around, except now you know that even new recruits have the stats at a glance. This makes it easier to see through lies in the game chat, but that just makes the diplomacy more fun (because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive)

[JoshyBoy]

Bruce, you've argued against this addition for about 10 different reasons now. If there was something specific that you didn't like you would be fine by now because all of the previous points you made have been addressed. Now it seems that you just want to continue arguing. If you want to help improve a feature of the site that is fine, but arguing for the sake of it is not very productive. I understand that you don't appreciate the addition and that's okay - lack will never be able to please every user perfectly, but he does listen to input and that is the reason behind the "Game Layout Discussion" in the general forum.

Those same stats and same situation you just described have always been available through Grease Monkey. It is not possible to ban the grease monkey script or to prevent people from logging the number of territories in some other manner, so veteran's will always have an easier (ie faster and more efficient) time than new recruits and players who don't use the forums. So if your point is that you want to be able to beat New Recruits more easily, then there is still a valid argument...

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

Hamtrigger - I agree with you, one of the main points of this game is to use diplomacy to convince your opponents to attack each other and not you. This feature does not take that aspect of the game away, it just changes it a little bit. Now your opponents have all the info at a glance, but why does that mean you can't convince them that you are weaker than you really are?

Show how you have more troops but your opponent is expanding faster. Or the opposite. Or strike a deal and get a temporary alliance so you can quickly increase your strength before your opponent can do anything. All the same aspects of diplomacy and trickery are still around, except now you know that even new recruits have the stats at a glance. This makes it easier to see through lies in the game chat, but that just makes the diplomacy more fun (because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive)

Typical... TeamCC sticking together.

[drunkmonkey]

Let's be honest...the only remaining complaint is "it's not as easy to beat lazy players anymore".

[the.killing.44]

It's funny reading all the complainers who didn't realize people have BOB.

Kind of proves the point how even such a great and well-known plug-in like BOB only reaches a certain amount of CC.

[nippersean]

Bruce, you've argued against this addition for about 10 different reasons now. If there was something specific that you didn't like you would be fine by now because all of the previous points you made have been addressed. Now it seems that you just want to continue arguing. If you want to help improve a feature of the site that is fine, but arguing for the sake of it is not very productive. I understand that you don't appreciate the addition and that's okay - lack will never be able to please every user perfectly, but he does listen to input and that is the reason behind the "Game Layout Discussion" in the general forum.

Those same stats and same situation you just described have always been available through Grease Monkey. It is not possible to ban the grease monkey script or to prevent people from logging the number of territories in some other manner, so veteran's will always have an easier (ie faster and more efficient) time than new recruits and players who don't use the forums. So if your point is that you want to be able to beat New Recruits more easily, then there is still a valid argument...

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

Hamtrigger - I agree with you, one of the main points of this game is to use diplomacy to convince your opponents to attack each other and not you. This feature does not take that aspect of the game away, it just changes it a little bit. Now your opponents have all the info at a glance, but why does that mean you can't convince them that you are weaker than you really are?

Show how you have more troops but your opponent is expanding faster. Or the opposite. Or strike a deal and get a temporary alliance so you can quickly increase your strength before your opponent can do anything. All the same aspects of diplomacy and trickery are still around, except now you know that even new recruits have the stats at a glance. This makes it easier to see through lies in the game chat, but that just makes the diplomacy more fun (because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive)

Just - well said - I honestly thought most of the arguments against this improvement were joking.

Wow!

All I can add is that if people think they can win by their opponents failing to count. Just take on tougher opponents.

This improvement clearly increased the strategy element (so you can't take the piss out of inexperienced opponents), and levelled the playing field, for all players, I continue to be amazed...

These guys that that think strategy got just taken away. No bud, it got given to you.......
To re-iterate if your strategy is to take advantage of opponenets that can't count - pick on someone your own size.

Yours in bewilderment,

Nippersean

ps - the only problem i had was the nanana on my clock - I thought the police were at my doorstep again....

[nippersean]

Deleted

[Seraphic]

Has there ever been a more contentious addition? I think we should put it to a vote as to whether it remains or not. I know I'm just a freemium, but I think you at least owe that to your paying customers.

[Hamtrigger]

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

Hamtrigger - I agree with you, one of the main points of this game is to use diplomacy to convince your opponents to attack each other and not you. This feature does not take that aspect of the game away, it just changes it a little bit. Now your opponents have all the info at a glance, but why does that mean you can't convince them that you are weaker than you really are?

Show how you have more troops but your opponent is expanding faster. Or the opposite. Or strike a deal and get a temporary alliance so you can quickly increase your strength before your opponent can do anything. All the same aspects of diplomacy and trickery are still around, except now you know that even new recruits have the stats at a glance. This makes it easier to see through lies in the game chat, but that just makes the diplomacy more fun (because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive)

Thank you Sully for actually responding to my points. You're the first poster to do that. I appreciate the fact that you actually read my post. I see what you’re saying about still convincing my opponents that I am weaker. Although just convincing them isn’t the point I was actually trying to make. The point I was trying to make is on the actually game board, looking weaker than you are. Not just convincing your opponents into thinking you’re weak. This could mean a variety of things, some of which I put in my earlier post. Some more include not having a huge amount of troops in one/two spots (map dependent), but maybe having them in close territories but more spread out (Of course this is game dependent). Your counter point is that I can still convince them that I am weaker, but I find it much MUCh more difficult to convince somebody that I am weaker when I am actually getting more re-enforcements and/or have a better position etc.

To expand on that.. A common tactic that I use is after a player is strong and threatens the game. There is a point when everybody realizes and starts taking action. Once he is weakend to the point where he is almost at the level of the other players, I still push at how strong he is. And how he’s just about to take it all back or something to that. It’s very hard to convince when the counter says I’m getting more troops than he.

You say this makes the game more fun because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive, but it’s like trying to tell me that 2+2 is actually 5. Because I can CLEARLY see that 2 + 2 is in fact four just by looking at the stat counter!

As a solution, I think that the counter should be made a game option. Obviously, some enjoy it. And obvioulsy, some do not enjoy it. Making it an option would allow those who like the counter to play with it, and those who don't like the counter to play without it.
Best regards towards the game of risk, Hamtrigger

[porkenbeans]

I think some of the supports of this statbar are missing the point that people are trying to make against it.

There is strategy to risk. There is also a good bit of a diplomacy factor.

Now listen closely, I've read hundereds of replies that say "WEll everyone can count duh".
I know that all of you can count. I know all the stat bar is doing is counting for you. The point that I--and others--are trying to make is that it takes out an element of fun/diplomacy and EVEN strategy. Part of Free For All strategy is trying to look weaker than you really are; that way other players don't think of you as much--and don't look at how many troops you are actually getting. As all good risk players know, you never take tons of bonuses when you will be left easily breakable. Going back to a there being strategy in looking weaker, somtimes it is a better option to take a bunch of random territories than a bonus and thus get underneath the radar.

I really hope CC takes another look at this addon and looks at how it affects gameplay. Maybe even make it a game option?

Hamtrigger - I agree with you, one of the main points of this game is to use diplomacy to convince your opponents to attack each other and not you. This feature does not take that aspect of the game away, it just changes it a little bit. Now your opponents have all the info at a glance, but why does that mean you can't convince them that you are weaker than you really are?

Show how you have more troops but your opponent is expanding faster. Or the opposite. Or strike a deal and get a temporary alliance so you can quickly increase your strength before your opponent can do anything. All the same aspects of diplomacy and trickery are still around, except now you know that even new recruits have the stats at a glance. This makes it easier to see through lies in the game chat, but that just makes the diplomacy more fun (because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive)

Thank you Sully for actually responding to my points. You're the first poster to do that. I appreciate the fact that you actually read my post. I see what you’re saying about still convincing my opponents that I am weaker. Although just convincing them isn’t the point I was actually trying to make. The point I was trying to make is on the actually game board, looking weaker than you are. Not just convincing your opponents into thinking you’re weak. This could mean a variety of things, some of which I put in my earlier post. Some more include not having a huge amount of troops in one/two spots (map dependent), but maybe having them in close territories but more spread out (Of course this is game dependent). Your counter point is that I can still convince them that I am weaker, but I find it much MUCh more difficult to convince somebody that I am weaker when I am actually getting more re-enforcements and/or have a better position etc.

To expand on that.. A common tactic that I use is after a player is strong and threatens the game. There is a point when everybody realizes and starts taking action. Once he is weakend to the point where he is almost at the level of the other players, I still push at how strong he is. And how he’s just about to take it all back or something to that. It’s very hard to convince when the counter says I’m getting more troops than he.

You say this makes the game more fun because you have to be more persuasive or more deceptive, but it’s like trying to tell me that 2+2 is actually 5. Because I can CLEARLY see that 2 + 2 is in fact four just by looking at the stat counter!

As a solution, I think that the counter should be made a game option. Obviously, some enjoy it. And obvioulsy, some do not enjoy it. Making it an option would allow those who like the counter to play with it, and those who don't like the counter to play without it.
Best regards towards the game of risk, Hamtrigger

You make a good point, but you seem to be somewhat out of the loop. I do not think that you realize that many players have "Bob". I think that it is better if everyone has this info. And, it seems that CC agrees.

[AzureX]

Please remove stat bar, it takes away the cerebral aspect of the game and part of the fun was making mistakes and having others make mistakes (e.g. missing a bonus).

[nippersean]

pork 'n - you don't need bob to see who's winning -it's obvious.

If these guys can have more armies and actually sell it yo a 12 yr old ,that they have less, then I'm gobsmacked ,and frankly don't feel that any strategy was lost Just that the lies, that certain people,God bless them, tell, they really think that's strategy, and some people actually fall for it!
Just Wow! an double Wow! I really didnt think there was these people. Well have had an educatiinn (tks tgt)

Teks all sotts i gess - just fucking wow!