universalchiro wrote: CreepersWiener wrote:I am looking for evidence of God. If any of you have any...please post it here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lycop ... s_mcr1.JPGhttp://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... fossil.jpgPolystrata Petrification through many layers of soil. Wait a minute, if each layer of soil is said to take 100,000 to million years to form, then how is it that the tree waited around for all those layers to form & then petrified? Ha, because the layers formed quickly from soil settling out of the flood of Genesis 7:11. Not only did it rain for 40 days and 40 nights, but water burst out of the earth. Which means the flood waters would be filled with a lot of clay, sand, rock, silt, etc. And when the soil settled, it would settle according to density and form layers.
Anyway, the explanation of the particular site mentioned most often by creationists, in Yellowstone, is mentioned here... note that the terms you mention are NOT used by geologists (which helps ensure you, kids learning this stuff from creationists, don't see the real geology explanations for what happened).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossilhere is the voted "best" yahoo answer, quoted in full (link.. so you can verify:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 710AAgCR80 )
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
The petrified trees are what Creationists call "polystrate fossils" (for 'many strata') and you can google this term for more information. But it is not at all a 'stumper' (if you'll pardon the pun) for geologists, and in fact they've known about this since geologist John W. Dawson described and explained such a formation in 1868. But Creationists don't get to be Creationists by staying "up-to-date" (as in advancing past the 19th century) on the scientific literature.
Some good sites that explain it:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creat…
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystra…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_…
But in a nutshell this is a great example of how the arguments of Creationism depend very much on the audience having a limited exposure to a particular science topic (sometimes it's genetics, sometimes anatomy, thermodynamics, biochemistry ... in this case geology).
There are several things that the Creationist arguments fail to take into account:
* Geologists do not say, and have NEVER said that deposition is *ALWAYS* slow and takes millions of years. Sometimes burial is rapid, and can come from a significant flood, or a mudslide (such as a volcanic lahar).
* Creationists hear the word "flood" and go "Aha! A single worldwide flood!" But they ignore the fact that these polystrate trees are found in different geological layers, (sometimes Devonian, much deeper than any dinosaur fossils, and sometimes Holocene, far more recent and far above any dinosaur bones). And there are examples of trees (complete with roots, showing they were live trees) buried above other trees, which disproves the idea of a *single* flood.
* A root system can descend down into far more ancient soils (called paleosols).
* Trees can survive being partially buried, and show signs of regeneration, where a new root system grows partially up the trunk, and continued growth.
* Erosion can partially expose an existing petrified tree, and then new deposits can rebury it again, producing the effect of being buried in multiple geological layers.
* The *species* of trees (e.g. swamp mangroves) and/or the locations in which they are found (near areas of subsidence, or rising seal levels, or near volcanic domes) are consistent with many reasons would be buried rapidly.
* There are plenty of existing deposits where we can see all these processes in effect today ... such as redwood and cedar fossils found in the San Francisco area 20 feet below sea level, or willows and alders found off the coast of Japan in 70 feet of water. There is no need to invoke Noah's flood to explain these, as we can see these "polystrate" fossils in the making.
universalchiro wrote:Petrification of trees only occurs with quick cover of trees. Within 1 day to 1 year. With lots of pressure, soil & moisture. A tree will not, can not wait 50,000 years for the next layer to form. Let alone wait 100,000 years for the next layer to form. Let alone multiple layers that supposedly took 100,000 years to million years to form. The tree would long since decayed.
Ah, but a tree can be petrified, then the soils around eroded and other soils re-deposited, just to name one example. There are far more above, or in science literature.
universalchiro wrote:There are 100's of trees in North America, in the vertical position, transcending many layers of soil. They are telling a story. They are saying that the soil covered the tree quickly. Not over 100,000 years.
Not only trees that have petrified polystrata, but so too are fossilized fish transcending multiple layers of soil. No fish can wait around 100,000 years for a layer of soil to cover it. Representing that the superficial layers of the crust of the earth were formed relatively short period of time from the global Genesis Flood.
Again, read the facts. You recite multiple errors just in that one paragraph. Geologists don't just make stories that suit them, they look at the data and what the soils actually say. Creationists.. every picture I have seen, including those presented on these so-called "polystyrate fossils" show just a small area and not the surrounds.
Not sure where the fish bit comes in, but I am guessing you refer to one of the many fossils of a fish fossil eating another fish or such? Very, very easy to explain. The fish died and was buried, became a fossil just like any other fish becomes a fossil. Sedimentation on the bottom of the ocean or streambeds can be very quick at times. The conditions have to be precise, but nothing in this really proves what you are trying to put forward. In fact, the real data shows a very different story.
universalchiro wrote:When the soil mixed in the flood waters, (that came from water bursting out of the earth,) started to settle, There was dead creatures that settle as well. They would both settle according to density. But something special happened to the creatures. When the animals died, the bacteria living within them, did not die. The bacteria kept on consuming the dead creatures. Bacteria produce a methane gas. So bloating started to occur. But not to all. For crustaceans resist this change in density best and already started at the bottom. Then creatures with exoskeletons resisted this bloating and change of density well, but less than the crustaceans. Then those with scales resisted a little less & bloated more than those with exoskeletons. Then those that had a hide resisted less than those with scales. Then primates resisted less than those with a tough hide. Then those fleshy creatures, resisted the least.
Uh.. no. NOTHING in that story is correct. Sorry, but its not. Not even a story commonly given out by creationists because it is so off-base. (they tend to use things that are close enough to what scientists say to be believed by cursory reading, but not such way off base items).
universalchiro wrote:All of them settled according to density, with factoring the bacteria methane gas bloating that changed their density variations. The result?
The so called Geological column was born. When? at the time after the flood. How? Settling according to density with factoring bloating.
No. This is just not what happens. Explaining why would take a while. Begin with what I have posted. I can get into more if you really wish (truly!)
universalchiro wrote:The Genesis 7 global flood solves and answers a lot of questions. And it points back to the reliability, trustworthiness of the Bible.
Indeed it is the Word of God, breathed through mankind to write.
Uh. nice try, but I DO believe the Bible and the word of God. I also get very angry when people try to pretend that lies are necessary to make the Bible true. The Bible IS true, does not dispute science, but science very much disputes a lot of what pretenders claim, particularly a lot of so-called young earth creationists. I can forgive the ignorant, the misguided, but too many have to know full well they plain lie and distort. They are blasphemers. You have a chance to see the truth.. take it! God does not support liars. God supports truth. Seek truth, not put forward ignorance.
