Conquer Club

DiM wrote:as long as the map is just the image of a cow i think the idea is bad. i don't car if it's drawn like a butcher's chart, like a realistic looking island or like an alien mother ship shaped like a cow. no matter how you draw it it will still be a cow and that's basically the issue.
the main problem i (and others) have with this map is that is based on an arbitrary ordinary generic thing like a cow (a piano, a keyboard, a pig, brain, etc). so no matter how you disguise it, it will be the generic thing we hated in the first place and it will open the path for all other generic things that were tried and abandoned over the years.

i'll say this again, you have obvious drawing skills, use them for a proper map idea not for a cow map.
here's one great idea for a map

Planets, battles and cities are all arbitrary ordinary and generic things.

DoomYoshi wrote:

DiM wrote:as long as the map is just the image of a cow i think the idea is bad. i don't car if it's drawn like a butcher's chart, like a realistic looking island or like an alien mother ship shaped like a cow. no matter how you draw it it will still be a cow and that's basically the issue.
the main problem i (and others) have with this map is that is based on an arbitrary ordinary generic thing like a cow (a piano, a keyboard, a pig, brain, etc). so no matter how you disguise it, it will be the generic thing we hated in the first place and it will open the path for all other generic things that were tried and abandoned over the years.

i'll say this again, you have obvious drawing skills, use them for a proper map idea not for a cow map.
here's one great idea for a map

Planets, battles and cities are all arbitrary ordinary and generic things.

it depends on the context. in the CC context they aren't. in fact planets, famous battles and various cities make perfect themes for maps.

There was some serious talking between me and dana about this map and i think he is developing a good version that could please everyone. The people that can't think about just a cow on this site and the people that wants a cow on this site. In few words it seems we find an agreement about the context.

Now before that those who don't want the map also in this case start to complain, let me state clear that I have also talked seriously with Lackattack and he is ok with this map if developed in the right way with the help of the CAs.

Be aware that this doesn't mean we're going to allow any type of animal maps, pig, sheeps or whatever else is related with a gimmick/sarcastic copy of this map/clans or whatever you want to start just to create chaos or to show your disapproval about this map. I will lock all the threads about those maps as soon as they will be posted and I'll consider all those project just spam.

Moreover I'll keep an eye on this thread, if anyone will start again to bitch or complain about this map without post any constructive idea about how this map can be developed and NOT why this map should be placed in the bin (or the like)...then those people expect a severe spanking from me.
That argument is no more topic of discussion since I talked with Lackattack and I have his approval for the idea. This is why I unlocked this thread.

This is the final word about all this mess.
No compromises, no more discussions, no complaining, at least till the day you will buy this site.
Full stop.

Now, about the map development I'll leave to dana1971, one of the most open minded mapmaker I 've ever met on this site, the honour to explain what he is going to do with his map.

Nobodies

I didn't know buying the site was an option readily available to me

I have not read any of the previous comments on this map, nor do I intend to scan multiple pages but does anyone else think that small island thing look like the cow dropped a turd?

Hi all,

Thought I'd let you know what I have planned next. Talked to "thenobodies" and we discussed going back to the original butcher map and dropping the island. What is going to change is the setting. The map will be put on the wall of a butcher shop making it clear that the map is a poster on the wall to educate people where their cuts are coming from.

This may mean I have to drop or change the cow pat because that doesn't seem appropriate for a butcher shop wall, unless off course a juvenile delinquent had drawn it there when the butcher wasn't looking.
In terms of game play I'd like something there so I was thinking maybe a bucket of milk, or maybe even a bucket of fertilizer, but that's probably the same thing.

Any watch for a new update in a few days or so when I get time.

I'm open to suggestions along this theme.

Best Wishes,
Dana

sounds good dana - looking forward to some cool poster graphics !

dana1971 wrote:I'm open to suggestions along this theme.

Best Wishes,
Dana

Dana, cannot wait to see what you produce. As soon as you get a new image up, I will comment on the GP side of things but till then, will have to wait to see what you do. If you have a layout already without the nice graphics, can you post that so we can see what you have. Then maybe we can come up with an idea before you spend hours on the graphics side.

dana1971 wrote:Hi all,

Thought I'd let you know what I have planned next. Talked to "thenobodies" and we discussed going back to the original butcher map and dropping the island. What is going to change is the setting. The map will be put on the wall of a butcher shop making it clear that the map is a poster on the wall to educate people where their cuts are coming from.

This may mean I have to drop or change the cow pat because that doesn't seem appropriate for a butcher shop wall, unless off course a juvenile delinquent had drawn it there when the butcher wasn't looking.
In terms of game play I'd like something there so I was thinking maybe a bucket of milk, or maybe even a bucket of fertilizer, but that's probably the same thing.

Any watch for a new update in a few days or so when I get time.

I'm open to suggestions along this theme.

Best Wishes,
Dana

This sounds excellent, and way cooler than a cow island map. Haha. I think Lackattack mentioned this map to a friend or relative of his, who is a butcher in real life, and he might join CC just to play on it.

Best of luck,


--Andy

dana1971 wrote:Hi all,

Thought I'd let you know what I have planned next. Talked to "thenobodies" and we discussed going back to the original butcher map and dropping the island. What is going to change is the setting. The map will be put on the wall of a butcher shop making it clear that the map is a poster on the wall to educate people where their cuts are coming from.

This may mean I have to drop or change the cow pat because that doesn't seem appropriate for a butcher shop wall, unless off course a juvenile delinquent had drawn it there when the butcher wasn't looking.
In terms of game play I'd like something there so I was thinking maybe a bucket of milk, or maybe even a bucket of fertilizer, but that's probably the same thing.

Any watch for a new update in a few days or so when I get time.

I'm open to suggestions along this theme.

Best Wishes,
Dana

I'm all for this twist to it! The cow island was a poor idea from the start! The whole idea was to try to avoid making it look like a cow even though it clearly was. This is more of a genuine attempt at making a cow map with a theme. I'm not going to say too much until Dana has made his first draft of it. After all it could be hideous !

AndyDufresne wrote:
This sounds excellent, and way cooler than a cow island map. Haha. I think Lackattack mentioned this map to a friend or relative of his, who is a butcher in real life, and he might join CC just to play on it.

Best of luck,


--Andy

If that's not support from the powers that be, I don't know what is!

Good to hear it's going forward.

So I guess now it's the waiting game for the new graphics.

Hi all,
Here's the latest work in progress:

I've made it into a poster on a white tile wall which you see in a lot of butcher shops.
I've roughly painted in some extra fat barriers to see what you all think. Once we're happy with the game play I'll clean up the graphics.

The idea is that this is a poster hanging in a butcher shop and the butchers who work there have turned it into a CC map by sticking pieces of paper on the poster explaining the rules.
Since a real poster would never have a cow pat on it one of the Butchers with a sense of humor stuck a piece of paper with a cow pat drawing on it.
Also thought of replacing the cow pat with a bucket, but because of where it was it just looked like a bucket to collect poo.

Visually the map is a little heavy on the left side so I plan to balance it out by using more pieces of paper stuck to the right side, but I thought I should post it as is before I finish it off.

[bigimg]http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/dana197111/cow_v20_v03_1200.jpg[/bigimg]

Let me know what you all think. I'm especially interested in comments on Game play.

Maybe look at the Battle for Cow island version for possible ideas of how to change the boarders?
Best Wishes,
Dana

Ok, how is this any different from the original cow map? All you did was add a wall in the background.

If that map was unacceptable by foundry standards, how does adding a wall make it acceptable? I don't get it.

natty dread wrote:...If that map was unacceptable by foundry standards....

I still don't get this. It's acceptable for me.

I like the wall and think it enhances the map even more.

Yeah I like the new look. Keep it up!

Also thought of replacing the cow pat with a bucket, but because of where it was it just looked like a bucket to collect poo.

I think that's a good idea. anything to keep the image of poo of the map. I'm not fond of that.

Also you should put some blood splatter on the wall or poster.

I thought you were developing something that is not "just a cow" map, like a map about a butcher shop or something, but all I see is that same map of a cow that you've had since the beginning. Nothing's changed, even the shit and flies are still there, the gameplay is exactly the same. All you've done is added a wall to the image.

If you want to make this into a proper map, you're going to need to do more. If the map's theme is supposed to be a butcher shop, then the gameplay AND graphics both need to support that theme. Currently, it looks again like the butcher shop theme is just an excuse for you to stick to the same map you've had and not change anything.

What I'm saying is that the map lacks thematic consistency. You say it's about a butcher shop, but NOTHING on this map says butcher shop to me. Yeah, it's a cow picture on a wall, but it might as well be a page of a newspaper on the wall of a public toilet... For instance, why would the flies, the shit, or the piece of grass even be there is the map was about a butcher shop? It just doesn't add up.

As a map with GP, it is coming along but things need to change now that it is a poster. No poster would have flies on it in a food shop so they need to go. Same for the cow pat and grass. These two with there high neutrals will never get taken. The fly swarm, although it is a nice idea would need a lot of symbols to denote what it can attack (look at flapcakes trench map). Take all threee of these out. Not needed in any way for GP and none fit the poster you have now. Like you did for the island, bring in the back legs. If you have a sale poster in the middle instead of the grass, you can use that as the territ that allows the legs to attack each other. If you remove the flies and shit, make Tri tip and tenderloin a normal 1 bonus with 3 starting neutrals on them.

Remove that dark paper and make it white. Who would buy from a dirty butcher.

koontz1973 wrote:No poster would have flies on it in a food shop so they need to go. Same for the cow pat and grass.

And it's not just enough removing those elements. Even if you remove the shit and flies and grass, you still only have an image of cow, on a piece of paper, on a wall. The butcher element is still missing.

You need to figure out something that clues the player in on the idea that this is supposed to be a butcher shop. Be it graphics or gameplay, but you need to have something. Simply adding a paper and a wall and asking the players to somehow guess that the wall belongs to a butcher shop is simply stretching it.

You need to figure out something that clues the player in on the idea that this is supposed to be a butcher shop. Be it graphics or gameplay, but you need to have something. Simply adding a paper and a wall and asking the players to somehow guess that the wall belongs to a butcher shop is simply stretching it.

Agreed, but Dana said he wanted to get the GP sorted. Any nobodies warned players about making non map related posts. So if and when dana gets the GP stamp, we can all butcher his graphics then. There is no point right now, trying to do this apart from getting rid of he elements that do not work like the cow pat, flies and grass.

As others have said before me, remove the flies, grass and cow pat. They might be good for gameplay but try to justify how any of that would be on a butchers wall. It's impossible! I would like to see more of the wall and the bonuses made in a way that somehow fits a butchers picture of a cow. Maybe a minimap would be more fitting?

Gillipig wrote:As others have said before me, remove the flies, grass and cow pat. They might be good for gameplay but try to justify how any of that would be on a butchers wall. It's impossible! I would like to see more of the wall and the bonuses made in a way that somehow fits a butchers picture of a cow. Maybe a minimap would be more fitting?

Instead of doing a mini map, try for a chalk board and instead of having bonuses, how about prices. So it would be
£6 Sirloin
£5 Rump
and so on.

koontz1973 wrote:Agreed, but Dana said he wanted to get the GP sorted. Any nobodies warned players about making non map related posts. So if and when dana gets the GP stamp, we can all butcher his graphics then. There is no point right now, trying to do this apart from getting rid of he elements that do not work like the cow pat, flies and grass.

Um, this is map related. And besides, mapmaking is not compartmentalized. Even if a mapmaker is working on gameplay and hasn't received the GP stamp it does not mean that no one can give feedback for things other than gameplay. If there are problems with the underlying concept, or the execution of said concept, then it needs to be sorted before the gameplay is fixed in place, because after that it can't be helped.

So there is very much point in doing this right now. The map does not work as it is now. There's no theme, or the theme that is supposedly being attempted for is not showing on the map. The problem is that the mapmaker is just trying to use the theme as an excuse to do that same old "just a cow map" and do minimal or no changes to it at all. But you can't just artificially plaster a theme on top of a map. It just doesn't work, never has.

Therefore, this whole map needs to be redesigned. The map needs to be designed around that butcher theme, in such a way that the graphics and gameplay both support the theme. Not just add/remove some stuff, or do some minor cosmetic changes... if your car tire is full of holes you don't keep patching it every 2 kilometers, you just get a new tire.

natty, I am agreeing with you but we both have completely different styles of how we express ourselves. The actual image of the cow is fine, as it is what it is, but it is everything else that fails. There is no point saying to scrap this completely because if he draws a new one from scratch, we may just shread it for the GP side of things. We might as well use this image to get the GP sorted and then work on the graphics side of things. But how does the same message over and over again help dana?

natty dread wrote:if your car tire is full of holes you don't keep patching it every 2 kilometers, you just get a new tire.

Or just run on it to the tire fall of and then continue on the rim