California [Quenched]

[theBastard]

Bison King, you are realy very skilled in graphics, so I believe you can make the photo as drawn picture (by your hand or using any trick with any paint program). I´ve tried to do something with it and it looks better when all map (playable map and backgroung) look alike. I used "filters" in GIMP, but must say unfortunately I´m not very skilled...

[theBastard]

Hmm... any thoughts about the legend? What about no minimap and just using colored text?

I prefer Mini maps when they can fit. They're easier to read at a glance.

minimap is good...

[Victor Sullivan]

For the two you posted above, I say keep the font for Bay Area and L.A. on the first, but keep the rest like the second, though I think I'd prefer the font you had before for the minimap.

[The Bison King]

Bison King, you are realy very skilled in graphics, so I believe you can make the photo as drawn picture (by your hand or using any trick with any paint program). I´ve tried to do something with it and it looks better when all map (playable map and backgroung) look alike. I used "filters" in GIMP, but must say unfortunately I´m not very skilled...

Like a posterize filter or something? it might look good. I could try it out but often those can look sort of cheezy.

For the two you posted above, I say keep the font for Bay Area and L.A. on the first, but keep the rest like the second, though I think I'd prefer the font you had before for the minimap.

That doesn't make much sense to me. I think that would make the image very visually unbalanced.

If:
A=regular font (Calisto MT)
B=Baja

on the last post #1 is

B B B

#2 is:

A B A

but what you are suggesting is

B B A

[Industrial Helix]

Generally I prefer minimaps too... but the repeated pattern of California is an unpleasant thing, imo.

Speaking of the background... I'm generally wary of posterize filters because they make things look generic. I'm not saying don't try it, do try it and see if you can get it to work.

[The Bison King]

First here is the Image with some added drop shadows, a suggestion I remember Natty making a while ago:

1.
[bigimg]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/223/californiaupload.jpg[/bigimg]

And here is the some variations on the background using different filters:

2.
[bigimg]http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6936/californiafilter1.jpg[/bigimg]

3.
[bigimg]http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7343/californiafilter2.jpg[/bigimg]

4.
[bigimg]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6756/californiafilter3.jpg[/bigimg]

[Victor Sullivan]

I think 2 or 3 could work. And BBA, TBK!

[jefjef]

#1 looks really good!

As you progress the sunset/bridge really distorts.

[natty dread]

I actually like #4.

[AndyDufresne]

I actually like #4.

Wholeheartedly. It is by far my favorite.


--Andy

[theBastard]

4 is the best.

[MrBenn]

I hate to say it, but I really don;t think the visual style fits the theme of the map at all... while it worked for Thyseneal, I don't know how well it works here.

I agree, but does it matter at this stage? I feel like we still need to figure out some of the gameplay concepts, bonus areas, etc.

-Sulls

We're not in graphics yet. One thing at a time.

Now that we're in graphics, I'm going to bring this back up.

I really don't think the watercolour style works on this map. You could probably get away with it if you were doing something like this (below), but I don't know here Part of me thinks a complete graphical overhaul may be in order?

[img]Image[/img]

To be honest, the latest updates of the map are comparable with the current Africa map, which is one of the most-revampable maps out there. I still think a complete graphical overhaul is in order

[The Bison King]

I hate to say it, but I really don;t think the visual style fits the theme of the map at all... while it worked for Thyseneal, I don't know how well it works here.

I agree, but does it matter at this stage? I feel like we still need to figure out some of the gameplay concepts, bonus areas, etc.

-Sulls

We're not in graphics yet. One thing at a time.

Now that we're in graphics, I'm going to bring this back up.

I really don't think the watercolour style works on this map. You could probably get away with it if you were doing something like this (below), but I don't know here Part of me thinks a complete graphical overhaul may be in order?

[img]Image[/img]

To be honest, the latest updates of the map are comparable with the current Africa map, which is one of the most-revampable maps out there. I still think a complete graphical overhaul is in order

I've been spending about a day now trying to find a way to respond to this, but I'm still not sure. I mean how are you supposed to respond when someone throws acid in your face? I'm really trying to work with you guys and I'd really hope that you are trying to work with me, but saying "this sucks do it over" is not productive. I feel like the salmon trying to swim upstream while you are the waterfall rushing against me. Aren't the mods supposed to be the gentle steam that guides me to the correct spawning ground? There is no do over, I don't have that kind of time. I want to make this happen and there's still a lot that can be done to improve this but there's a limit to what I'm willing to put into this project. I honestly don't feel that it's necessary either, and I've never agreed with the sentiment that the water color style doesn't work here. That is such a subjective opinion anyway. Some people like the style and other people don't. I could see water colors not being "suited" for a map if it was of space or something futuristic, but I don't see a conflict with something as open ended as a state. I've been getting a lot of good comments and support from people, who can give me specific measures to what could improve this map. I feel that a complete graphic overhaul is completely back tracking, a complete waste of time, and completely unnecessary.

TBK

[thenobodies80]

About graphics, i personally think that when borders and connection will be fixed the map could be ready for a short sticky period and then moving to the FF.

Whatever happened to this? It's been about a month now since this was stickied. If there's something specific you're waiting to see please tell me so that I can make whatever changes are needed?

I'm here again. Sorry for taking so long to reply to your question but real life was hectic in these days.
First of all i want to say that i prefer version 4, it is the one in which the two different styles are mixed better. Why you didn't applied it also to the insets?

Now..... after reading the last pages, I have decided to go backward through the thread to see if the concerns recently expressed on the map have been already addressed and if it was given a logical reply to them. I must admit that the map was accompanied from the beginning by those concerns and, in my opinion, they have never been addressed in a satisfactory manner. So, trying to give you an idea of what i'm saying, let me quote some of the posts i've found:

Watercolors/Background
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=120#p2854070

I hate to say it, but I really don;t think the visual style fits the theme of the map at all... while it worked for Thyseneal, I don't know how well it works here.

I agree, but does it matter at this stage? I feel like we still need to figure out some of the gameplay concepts, bonus areas, etc.

-Sulls

We're not in graphics yet. One thing at a time.

Now that we're in graphics, I'm going to bring this back up.

I really don't think the watercolour style works on this map. You could probably get away with it if you were doing something like this (below), but I don't know here Part of me thinks a complete graphical overhaul may be in order?

[img]imagehere[/img]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=135#p2875880

As to the graphics, I like the overall look, but feel that a place as flashy as California should have a little more "pop" to it. Something with stronger colors and less of a watercolored look.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=270#p2939472

One of the things I've always disliked---is a mix between realism---photographs---and drawn images---the landmass and other emblems. If the photo looked like the bear in style, I'd give it my thumbs up.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=300#p2955478

Bison King, you are realy very skilled in graphics, so I believe you can make the photo as drawn picture (by your hand or using any trick with any paint program). I´ve tried to do something with it and it looks better when all map (playable map and backgroung) look alike. I used "filters" in GIMP, but must say unfortunately I´m not very skilled...

Minimap
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=75#p2791304

Believe it or not, I think the minimap is too big. It distracts from the main map IMO, since it's like 1/3 the size.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=285#p2955472

Hmm... any thoughts about the legend? What about no minimap and just using colored text?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=468&t=126233&start=300#p2956422

Generally I prefer minimaps too... but the repeated pattern of California is an unpleasant thing, imo.

The things posted here above are just some of them, but they show to you the main concerns that currently hold the map into the graphics workshop. I hope this list could help you to focus on things that need some work.

In addition there're another couple of things :
Sierra Nevada e Mojave Desert have unfriendly colors for colorblind people
[spoiler=vischeck][bigimg]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/3/21/2373685/Foundry/californiaallbaja2.jpg[/bigimg][bigimg]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/3/21/2373685/Foundry/californiaallbaja1.jpg[/bigimg][/spoiler]
Finally the title, it's certainly nice, but the font is not freeware (read the txt included with the file) so must be changed.

So considering the above,I have to say you that, as it is now, the map will not be used on CC.
What i suggest you is to take your time, focus on what can be improved and fix the issues.
If you develope a map you need to have a clear idea of what you want but you should also listen (or at least give a more thoughtful reply than a simple: No, I like it) to the suggestions given, specially if those are repeated.

Nobodies

[The Bison King]

First of all i want to say that i prefer version 4, it is the one in which the two different styles are mixed better. Why you didn't applied it also to the insets?

It does seem to be the favorite. I didn't apply it to the insets because I thought it would help them stand out. could though.

Now..... after reading the last pages, I have decided to go backward through the thread to see if the concerns recently expressed on the map have been already addressed and if it was given a logical reply to them. I must admit that the map was accompanied from the beginning by those concerns and, in my opinion, they have never been addressed in a satisfactory manner. So, trying to give you an idea of what i'm saying, let me quote some of the posts i've found:

Some of them I have addressed and some of them I will address now.

Now that we're in graphics, I'm going to bring this back up.

I really don't think the watercolour style works on this map. You could probably get away with it if you were doing something like this (below), but I don't know here Part of me thinks a complete graphical overhaul may be in order?

The post directly above yours is completely dedicated to answering this question. I defer to it.

As to the graphics, I like the overall look, but feel that a place as flashy as California should have a little more "pop" to it. Something with stronger colors and less of a watercolored look.

Since this post I actually have gone in and pumped up the colors. This was also before the stars were added and the Hollywood font was implemented, all attempts to add flashiness.

One of the things I've always disliked---is a mix between realism---photographs---and drawn images---the landmass and other emblems. If the photo looked like the bear in style, I'd give it my thumbs up.

That's exactly what the photofilters are being used for. I think that they actually do give it a similar blocky shape sort of modulation that is used on the bear. I think #4 does actually do this pretty well.

Bison King, you are realy very skilled in graphics, so I believe you can make the photo as drawn picture (by your hand or using any trick with any paint program). I´ve tried to do something with it and it looks better when all map (playable map and backgroung) look alike. I used "filters" in GIMP, but must say unfortunately I´m not very skilled...

again it was actually this specific comment that prompted me to use the photofilters.

Believe it or not, I think the minimap is too big. It distracts from the main map IMO, since it's like 1/3 the size.

I might have missed this comment or had forgotten about it. I could shrink the mini map, I don't have a problem with that.

Hmm... any thoughts about the legend? What about no minimap and just using colored text?

I just don't think this is a good idea, is there anything wrong with that? Mini maps are simple and effective.

Generally I prefer minimaps too... but the repeated pattern of California is an unpleasant thing, imo.

This is pretty much the exact same comment and he even acknowledges that it is simply his own opinion. One that is not shared with by me, and no one else besides IH has suggested that there is anything wrong with using a mini map over a legend.

In addition there're another couple of things :
Sierra Nevada e Mojave Desert have unfriendly colors for colorblind people

ah yes I see that. You're right that'll have to be changed.

Finally the title, it's certainly nice, but the font is not freeware (read the txt included with the file) so must be changed.

...crap. I was unaware of that. That really sucks that font was perfect! ugh I guess I'll have to find something else.

[The Bison King]

Finally the title, it's certainly nice, but the font is not freeware (read the txt included with the file) so must be changed.

This font is only for non-commercial usage.
To use this font for commercial gain, profit, business, merchandise and prints please visit the shop available at shop.sickcapital.com

Thank you,
Andrew2

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean that I'm in the clear? I'm not using it for commercial gain, it's not being used for business, It's not attached to any merchandise, and it won't be printed.

[Victor Sullivan]

I would imagine it would go under business.

[The Bison King]

I would imagine it would go under business.

Business implies money.

[AndyDufresne]

I would imagine it would go under business.

Business implies money.

Since Conquer Club would be using it, it is better to find something Free Ware just so there aren't any kinks.


--Andy

[The Bison King]

Mkay well I'll get around to changing the header font on the next update. For now this is what I've done:

-Punched up the colors further.
-Touched up the background.
-Applied the filter to the insets.
-Darkened Sierra Nevada so that it should hopefully pass the colorblind test.
-Shrunk the Mini map down.


[bigimg]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/223/californiaupload.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/3665/californiapro4uploadsma.jpg[/bigimg]

[The Bison King]

I was playing around with what it would be like with no mini map. This is what I came up with.

[bigimg]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4236/californiaprofilter3.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7343/californiafilter2.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6936/californiafilter1.jpg[/bigimg]

[Willy!]

Wow this map's still in the gameplay workshop? I thought it would be moved into beta way back when i made my first post! Oh well, if the map's not good enough I guess it can't move on yet. The map is still VERY visually appealing and is still my favorite map in the gameplay workshop. I have one concern though. Aren't the two inset map territory bonuses unbalanced? The Bay Area is worth +6 with 5 border territories (which is fine). However, Los Angeles is only worth +5 with 6 border territories. Shouldn't this be adjusted? By the way, the background is much better than when I saw it last and the whole picture looks better without the inset map.

Willy!

[The Bison King]

Wow this map's still in the gameplay workshop? I thought it would be moved into beta way back when i made my first post!

well...

The map is still VERY visually appealing and is still my favorite map in the gameplay workshop.

Graphics, but thanks. It's refreshing to hear someone actually say something nice about this map.

The Bay Area is worth +6 with 5 border territories (which is fine). However, Los Angeles is only worth +5 with 6 border territories. Shouldn't this be adjusted?

Well the thinking is that it's extremely unlikely that any of these bonuses will be taken as someones first. Expanded out LA can be defended from 3 while Bay can only be defended from 4 at best. Bay also has 9 territories to LA's 8. So the short answer is that LA is less because it has less territories and better expansion potential.

By the way, the background is much better than when I saw it last and the whole picture looks better without the inset map.

Again thank's it's good to know that the changes are at least appreciated. When you say inset map do you mean mini map?

[thenobodies80]

It looks 1000 times better without the minimap! Some quick thoughts: the first and the second results are nice, the last one is also interesting, but i think that the yellow background stands out a bit too much. You should work a bit on legend colors to have them that match the colors you have on the map, specially the violet, it looks really strong if compared with the "original" one, you used.
A thing that really bothers me is the part of the legend about cities...All those big black letters. Is really necessary to have them so visible?
I think that the cities bonus has the same importance than the "standard zone bonus", so i think thay should have the same font size, or at least they should appear more balanced each other, if I look the map now it seems to me that the game goes around the cities or that there is a city objective....

[The Bison King]

It looks 1000 times better without the minimap! Some quick thoughts: the first and the second results are nice, the last one is also interesting, but i think that the yellow background stands out a bit too much. You should work a bit on legend colors to have them that match the colors you have on the map, specially the violet, it looks really strong if compared with the "original" one, you used.
A thing that really bothers me is the part of the legend about cities...All those big black letters. Is really necessary to have them so visible?
I think that the cities bonus has the same importance than the "standard zone bonus", so i think thay should have the same font size, or at least they should appear more balanced each other, if I look the map now it seems to me that the game goes around the cities or that there is a city objective....

Sorry for the slow response I've been busy with a lot of other stuff lately. I'll do a new update soon. Have you checked this on the color blind test again yet? does it pass?