Conquer Club

Edoc, now you are saying I am foolish. Because what I posted had no substance.

I posted what I thought on the various discussion's that where happening at the time.

I put my 2 cents in on the theme of the game, what a siren was, who georgina might be. and the need to protect the dreamer.

No substance.

I believe the game needs to keep moving forward.

You singled me out D1 during the joke vote, saying no joke vote jgordon
when I asked you to explain,your response was scummy,but you had at that time
set up your move to have me claim,again very scummy

I dont believe me claiming will help town at this time.
But I do however believe that you and others pushing for it will turn the light right back in your direction after I am lynched. I dont think oh my mistake I thought he was scummy will sufice for an explanation from you.

With that in mind if I get lynched you go next, to me a win for town

And thats why I wont claim, neither scummy or foolish reason's

I have to go with jgordon on this. In the other game his activity is very similar, and while he may not be playing the game perfectly (he may have his own reasons).
But to call him out for his activity being scummy when that definitely can't be the case, and there are obviously others submarining much more blatantly, is definitely wrong.

i would have to agree. why would he be refusing to claim (i assume if he was mafia he would claim VT...), and why would he defend himself in such a way that many people do not trust. doesnt seem evil here

jgordon1111 wrote:Edoc, now you are saying I am foolish. Because what I posted had no substance.

I posted what I thought on the various discussion's that where happening at the time.

I put my 2 cents in on the theme of the game, what a siren was, who georgina might be. and the need to protect the dreamer.

No substance.

I believe the game needs to keep moving forward.

You singled me out D1 during the joke vote, saying no joke vote jgordon
when I asked you to explain,your response was scummy,but you had at that time
set up your move to have me claim,again very scummy

I dont believe me claiming will help town at this time.
But I do however believe that you and others pushing for it will turn the light right back in your direction after I am lynched. I dont think oh my mistake I thought he was scummy will sufice for an explanation from you.

With that in mind if I get lynched you go next, to me a win for town

And thats why I wont claim, neither scummy or foolish reason's

I have no trouble lybching you then. You refuse to take responsibility for the fact that it is not Edocils case lynching you but your attitude in your defense. If we are to back down in having you claim, what stops others from doing the same thing? You give us no choice but to call you out weather you are Town or Mafia. This is not about whats best for you this is about whats best for town. Saying you would rather be lynched then claim shows you do not have towns best interest.

Youve had several chances to offer a logical argument.

His argument is that you usually learn something from lynches, so if he does flip up town, then all we need to do is look at who pressured for his lynch? I understand your point IB, but I still think his stance has merit. If you're willing to lynch him, then be willing to accept responsibility for it?
It may not be your logical response, but we can't always play the game your same way?

IB, I gave my defense. The point is I am not playing like you are used to. Edoc called me out because He knew I would fight having to claim,therefore to me at this point he is the scummiest player in the game.

And If Edoc knew I would fight claiming as per other games,ask yourself the simplest question why then would he do it. One town down more to go.

I will make the same deal with Edoc I did another player in a game. Edoc you claim then I will.

If not I take the lynch and its stil a win for town because they will know who to focus their night actions on.

I didnt do a night action N1, because I am cautious not to hurt town in any way by making a mistake.

So no I am not foolish in my reason or defense as is being asserted.

I play to win. If I got to take one for my team to have a better chance I will.

I know that is a foreign concept but thats just me.

In Red.

jgordon1111 wrote:Edoc, now you are saying I am foolish. Because what I posted had no substance.
If you were following what I posted you would have gathered that foolish was in your refusal to claim.

I posted what I thought on the various discussion's that where happening at the time.
An in every case followed the lead of another.

I put my 2 cents in on the theme of the game, what a siren was, who georgina might be. and the need to protect the dreamer.
Useless flavor spec at this point. Any scum will try to be helpful to the town like this, so as to speak without contributing. You don't even know the dreamer, if there is a dreamer or anything so the need to protect them is nonexistant.
No substance.

I believe the game needs to keep moving forward.

You singled me out D1 during the joke vote, saying no joke vote jgordon
when I asked you to explain,your response was scummy,but you had at that time
set up your move to have me claim,again very scummy
Surely you can recognize a joke vote? I was poking fun at you for getting serious so early. Not scummy at, you are just lashing out with OMGUS to a level that it is almost embarrassing.
I dont believe me claiming will help town at this time.
This is my largest issue. Your latest post confirms you are no the doc, so there is literally not a single town role in the game (ok perhaps a stump, but it isn't in this game) that we would benefit from your death, and while a Power Role claim may put you in danger it isn't a death sentence.
But I do however believe that you and others pushing for it will turn the light right back in your direction after I am lynched. I dont think oh my mistake I thought he was scummy will sufice for an explanation from you.
I won't hang this game
With that in mind if I get lynched you go next, to me a win for town
This is naught but OMGUS, you should know better then this. If a townie is coming hard after you for a lynch, it's your own damn fault for making a poor defense.
And thats why I wont claim, neither scummy or foolish reason's

In conclusion the only time IMO it is permissible to not claim is to suicide out of protest. However there are no great wrongs being done here, no Metagame cases, no revealed roles from a sore loser, no Random Lynch, nothing besides a case that was made and then heavily perused when you dug your heels in.

Leehar wrote:His argument is that you usually learn something from lynches, so if he does flip up town, then all we need to do is look at who pressured for his lynch? I understand your point IB, but I still think his stance has merit. If you're willing to lynch him, then be willing to accept responsibility for it?
It may not be your logical response, but we can't always play the game your same way?

Well yes, if the case was unsubstantiated, then I have seen people basically offer to take responsibility if a mislynch occurs (see Firefly, Greek Gods Mafias), but I do think edoc has a valid point and I always claim when the pressure is on. Honestly, jgordons refusal to claim leads me to believe he's either a VT or a weaker town role (mason or something). Because if we're talking about "helping the team", jgordon refusing to claim if he's a power role is only going to hurt town.

Also, a refusal to claim under pressure, if we let it happen, basically sets the precedent for mafia to get free passes later on. If jgordon can do it, that basically means that nobody is going to have to claim under pressure, and we're never going to catch mafia lying about night actions or counterclaims from townies, which is usually the best way to catch scum besides investigations.

Good enough I stated my defence,edoc countered it. I am not the doc. Do what you feel is best and let the scum die in the night after me. My targets would be Edoc for running the train on me and BG for doing exactly what edoc is accusing me of.

Now some of you take a minute and go back read Edoc's substantial input

BG's substantial input

And mine, then tell me why Edoc is pushing and BG jumped on.

And because Edoc is way off on me I will not claim.

jgordon1111 wrote:Good enough I stated my defence,edoc countered it. I am not the doc. Do what you feel is best and let the scum die in the night after me. My targets would be Edoc for running the train on me and BG for doing exactly what edoc is accusing me of.

Now some of you take a minute and go back read Edoc's substantial input

BG's substantial input

And mine, then tell me why Edoc is pushing and BG jumped on.

And because Edoc is way off on me I will not claim.

Normally I refrain from this sort of thing, but if you don't feel like playing the fucking game don't fucking sign up. Hopefully I don't have to apologize for this when you turn out to be a jester or something.

jgordon1111 wrote:Good enough I stated my defence,edoc countered it. I am not the doc. Do what you feel is best and let the scum die in the night after me. My targets would be Edoc for running the train on me and BG for doing exactly what edoc is accusing me of.

Now some of you take a minute and go back read Edoc's substantial input

BG's substantial input

And mine, then tell me why Edoc is pushing and BG jumped on.

And because Edoc is way off on me I will not claim.

So what is to stop you from using this as a defense in future games while playing as mafia?

It is not an actual defence, I am countering what edoc has said,with the belief some of you will find that trying to push me into a claim on BS info will show that the actual investigation needs to be on Edoc and BG.

But me not claiming and then being lynched is better than claiming and getting lynched any way beings time has almost ran out, dont want either me or someone else speed lynched just because.

Because then the ones who watched will know who to target.
Again that in my opinion is a win for town.

Alot of you seem to have gotten used to playing a certain way and me not claiming seems to go against what you want.

lets try something new beings I havent seen a rule that says I got to claim.
lets try lynching someone on actual evidence.

And if you think Edoc has a better case against me than I do him then by all means lynch me.

****

BG if there was a actual case where I had acted scummy in the slightest way, I would have claimed. But with all the submariners around(including your now 8 substantial post's) I dont think Edoc fishing for my role is enough for me to claim.

After all that is edoc's case against me I havent put forth anything of substance.

So it's not that I am being rude by not claiming as Edcod wants me to, It's me calling BS. And that you and Edoc need to explain yourselves before I do.

I dont not think I am above claiming if I make a mistake and I look scummy out of stupidity or in error.

That hasnt happened I have neither acted scummy or done anything stupid, All I have done is say I wont claim On a BS case with BS evidence.

edocsil wrote:

jgordon1111 wrote:Good enough I stated my defence,edoc countered it. I am not the doc. Do what you feel is best and let the scum die in the night after me. My targets would be Edoc for running the train on me and BG for doing exactly what edoc is accusing me of.

Now some of you take a minute and go back read Edoc's substantial input

BG's substantial input

And mine, then tell me why Edoc is pushing and BG jumped on.

And because Edoc is way off on me I will not claim.

Normally I refrain from this sort of thing, but if you don't feel like playing the fucking game don't fucking sign up. Hopefully I don't have to apologize for this when you turn out to be a jester or something.

My god, just because you believe edoc is way off on you doesn't mean that he's the only one accusing you. Obviously enough people believe he has a valid case, enough that they voted you. So don't try to frame this as a you vs. edoc thing.

Honestly, I think we're just going in circles here, I'd like to see a VC and then if nothing else is going to change, might as well drop the hammer.

You present a dilemma.

On the one hand I beleive their is a better chance you are Town then Mafia BUT your history indicates that you dont feel you need to play by the mores and rules we have play by.

I remember your first game, which was Magic the Gathering. You made a claim and you were asked to back up your statement with evidence to support your claim, which you refused to do. safari was part of that exchange as was Rodion. You were new so they cut you some slack and did not pursue it. They also both turned out to be town. If a band wagon had been formed and you had been lynched, the people who pressured you would have been town as well. So you argument that Edocil must be Mafia because he is bringing a case against you is meaningless.

I beleive what this boils down to is that you know your town and anyone who attacks you or brings a case must be mafia.

This is a case of you being stubburn and not taking responsibility for your lack of a rational defense. Your basicly saying I know Im town so I would rather suicide/ be lycnched then be forced to do somthing I do not wish to do. My play experience with you suggests you are a stubborn person who does not like working from a perspective other then their own.

You also make Mafias job easy. They can just stand back and watch the side show you have created from your stubborness.
My vote will stand even though I know there is chance you are town.

This is a team game.

Iron Butterfly wrote:You present a dilemma.

On the one hand I beleive their is a better chance you are Town then Mafia BUT your history indicates that you dont feel you need to play by the mores and rules we have play by.

I remember your first game, which was Magic the Gathering. You made a claim and you were asked to back up your statement with evidence to support your claim, which you refused to do. safari was part of that exchange as was Rodion. You were new so they cut you some slack and did not pursue it. They also both turned out to be town. If a band wagon had been formed and you had been lynched, the people who pressured you would have been town as well. So you argument that Edocil must be Mafia because he is bringing a case against you is meaningless.

I beleive what this boils down to is that you know your town and anyone who attacks you or brings a case must be mafia.

This is a case of you being stubburn and not taking responsibility for your lack of a rational defense. Your basicly saying I know Im town so I would rather suicide/ be lycnched then be forced to do somthing I do not wish to do. My play experience with you suggests you are a stubborn person who does not like working from a perspective other then their own.

You also make Mafias job easy. They can just stand back and watch the side show you have created from your stubborness.
My vote will stand even though I know there is chance you are town.

This is a team game.

This is my issue. If I were to take a gamble I would say town, but that's because i understand statistics. My chances of my first serious case for the game being spot on are slim. That being said we cannot allow a player continue who doesn't follow the rules. That precedent will just make things a mess.

safariguy5 wrote:

edocsil wrote:

jgordon1111 wrote:Good enough I stated my defence,edoc countered it. I am not the doc. Do what you feel is best and let the scum die in the night after me. My targets would be Edoc for running the train on me and BG for doing exactly what edoc is accusing me of.

Now some of you take a minute and go back read Edoc's substantial input

BG's substantial input

And mine, then tell me why Edoc is pushing and BG jumped on.

And because Edoc is way off on me I will not claim.

Normally I refrain from this sort of thing, but if you don't feel like playing the fucking game don't fucking sign up. Hopefully I don't have to apologize for this when you turn out to be a jester or something.

My god, just because you believe edoc is way off on you doesn't mean that he's the only one accusing you. Obviously enough people believe he has a valid case, enough that they voted you. So don't try to frame this as a you vs. edoc thing.

Honestly, I think we're just going in circles here, I'd like to see a VC and then if nothing else is going to change, might as well drop the hammer.

Anytime you want an uptodate vote cout, check the OP. it's usually pretty accurate.

Next week I Have 5 midterms. I won't be on as much as usual, but I can keep checking in and keep vote counts updated I will put one in thread minimum every other page. Will put one up tonight.

Tell me the rule I have broken. If you are saying I should just play the way its always been done,then that is mighty narrow minded.

LoL Edoc thats a good cover, hey we dont play that way lets hammer him. therefore I dont look scummy for doing it.

So let me get this correct then. Because Edoc erroneously calls me out I have to claim. because I still say I have not acted scummy,Edoc did by his callout
saying I was flying under the radar (30 posts) as active as himself and IB, Then of not saying anything of substance(everything I said was of substance and responding when I had misunderstood something or when a question was asked) So in my mind for those 2 reasons alone Edoc seems scummy to me.
and yet that keeps going by all of you long term players because Edoc says so.

therefore I am being told I am not playing by the rules, for going against Edoc scummy behavior(to me) and not claiming.

Sorry I find this very strange indeed. and will not claim until Edoc and BG does, very simple really a different way of finding the truth out.

But you have to know that some of the players here a kinda new to,so when I turn up town Edoc and BG are most likely gonna die.

IB,Skill, and leehar, I propose making them claim in turn for my claim.

I will not suicide not my style, If you thinking my not claiming is suicide, no not really it will take care of 2 players at least one of whom I am pretty sure is the scum that will tip this game to towns favor.

Precedents are always set, Make them claim and I will

And safari I take playing the game seriously. please dont curse at me I dont do it to anyone and dont expect it to be done to me.

Sorry for the double post my apologies safari it wasnt you that cussed me. Edoc my previous statement at the bottom is for you then. It's a game there is no need to get upset like that.

Vote Count:
Jgordon111 (4) - edocsil, BGtheBrain, Iron Butterfly, safariguy5 L-2
BGtheBrain (1) - Jgordon


With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Scene

The bickering halts briefly as they notice the screen dropping down from above once again.

"Hello. Our medical staff has confirmed that Giorgina is alive, however her condition is, well, hm... I'll let her speak for herself."

Ivac's image disappears and a horrifying feathered, reptilian creature appears.

"Who, or what, the hell are you?" one exclaims.

The beast replies: "I am Giorgina. The face you see before you, however, is not of my own. My soul remains, but my body has changed. This is no masking trick; any body-memories I had are no longer with me, and even the moments before my death remain a void in my brain-memory. As such, there is not much I can say or do to help your investigation. Ivac will continue to guide you as he can while I recover and recuperate. Good luck and gods-speed."

Day 2 Continue!

-Sully

jgordon1111 wrote:Tell me the rule I have broken. If you are saying I should just play the way its always been done,then that is mighty narrow minded.

LoL Edoc thats a good cover, hey we dont play that way lets hammer him. therefore I dont look scummy for doing it.

So let me get this correct then. Because Edoc erroneously calls me out I have to claim. because I still say I have not acted scummy,Edoc did by his callout
saying I was flying under the radar (30 posts) as active as himself and IB, Then of not saying anything of substance(everything I said was of substance and responding when I had misunderstood something or when a question was asked) So in my mind for those 2 reasons alone Edoc seems scummy to me.
and yet that keeps going by all of you long term players because Edoc says so.

therefore I am being told I am not playing by the rules, for going against Edoc scummy behavior(to me) and not claiming.

Sorry I find this very strange indeed. and will not claim until Edoc and BG does, very simple really a different way of finding the truth out.

But you have to know that some of the players here a kinda new to,so when I turn up town Edoc and BG are most likely gonna die.

IB,Skill, and leehar, I propose making them claim in turn for my claim.

I will not suicide not my style, If you thinking my not claiming is suicide, no not really it will take care of 2 players at least one of whom I am pretty sure is the scum that will tip this game to towns favor.

Precedents are always set, Make them claim and I will

And safari I take playing the game seriously. please dont curse at me I dont do it to anyone and dont expect it to be done to me.

Whatever. You are willingly ignoring all the logic of my posts. If nothing else you are getting hung for completely ignoring the issues I and others have raised, you don't even seem to grasp what is going on. I tire of this and barring anything new happening I feel no need to discuss this further. The one thing I will say about the rule to however is to prevent this same nonsense happening again. the rule is simple. If you find yourself at L-1 or 2 you claim. End of story. Lie if needed if you are scum or to cover your identity as the doc, but none the less do not simply say no.

****

Cabro, unblockable vigilante, Tree person. Which is why I questioned Edoc out the gate on his statement burn the heritic and no joke vote jgordon D1.

Two bad statements in my eyes out the gate.

Now lynch me and be done.

I think how the bandwagon works on Non evidence is crazy.

But you have this guarantee If I live one of you 2 is dead, unblockable