Conquer Club

I don't accept the currently fashionable assertion that any view is automatically as worthy of respect as any equal and opposite view. My view is that the moon is made of rock. If someone says to me, "Well, you haven't been there, have you? You haven't seen it for yourself, so my view that it is made of Norwegian beaver cheese is equally valid"-then I can't even be bothered to argue. There is such a thing as the burden of proof, and in the case of god, as in the case of the composition of the moon, this has shifted radically. God used to be the best explanation we'd got, and we've now got vastly better ones. God is no longer an explanation of anything, but has instead become something that would itself need an insurmountable amount of explaining. So I don't think that being convinced that there is no god is as irrational or arrogant a point of view as belief that there is. I don't think the matter calls for even-handedness at all.

So there.
BTW who said that?

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

Aradhus wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

"faith |fāθ| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something"

Timminz wrote:Is channel surfing a sport?

jonesthecurl wrote:...or pocket billiards?

-jonesthecurl


_________________________________






@jonesthecurl: Haha, you old bugger. <tips hat>

nah, i don't think it fits the definition of a religion. it is a belief, however.

the.killing.44 wrote:

Aradhus wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

"faith |fāθ| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something"

+1

Also, I get tired of every religion claiming that they are different from all other religions and therefore not a religion. The "we are the one exception" argument just doesn't cut it, and usually ends up discrediting the party that is propagating that line of reasoning.

Ray Rider wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

Aradhus wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

"faith |fāθ| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something"

+1

Also, I get tired of every religion claiming that they are different from all other religions and therefore not a religion. The "we are the one exception" argument just doesn't cut it, and usually ends up discrediting the party that is propagating that line of reasoning.

is not collecting stamps a hobby?

Baron Von PWN wrote:

Ray Rider wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

Aradhus wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

"faith |fāθ| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something"

+1

Also, I get tired of every religion claiming that they are different from all other religions and therefore not a religion. The "we are the one exception" argument just doesn't cut it, and usually ends up discrediting the party that is propagating that line of reasoning.

is not collecting stamps a hobby?

heyyy so, i addressed this on the first page, posts like this don't mean anything and aren't gonna change anybody's mind... just saying

Baron Von PWN wrote:

Ray Rider wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

Aradhus wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

"faith |fāθ| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something"

+1

Also, I get tired of every religion claiming that they are different from all other religions and therefore not a religion. The "we are the one exception" argument just doesn't cut it, and usually ends up discrediting the party that is propagating that line of reasoning.

is not collecting stamps a hobby?

No, but that's like comparing GPA and income (seewhatididthar?).

I love how ardent atheists are when people says atheism is a religion. Despite what you want to think, you do not have proof that god does not exist, so it is a belief. There also seems to be a strong central organization of atheism (Pope:Catholics::Dawkins:Atheists), so I tend to believe atheism is a religion.

I don't necessarily believe agnosticism is a religion, because there isn't really a central order (yet, or at least what I'm aware of).

Army of GOD wrote:
No, but that's like comparing GPA and income (seewhatididthar?).

I love how ardent atheists are when people says atheism is a religion. Despite what you want to think, you do not have proof that god does not exist, so it is a belief. There also seems to be a strong central organization of atheism (Pope:Catholics::Dawkins:Atheists), so I tend to believe atheism is a religion.

I don't necessarily believe agnosticism is a religion, because there isn't really a central order (yet, or at least what I'm aware of).

Fool. You know nothing of the religious and the un-religious side.

I know enough to know your mother's a whore, Trebek.

So... you wanna play rough, eh?

BigBallinStalin wrote:So... you wanna play rough, eh?

After last night with your mother, I'm a bit sore, Trebek.

Army of GOD wrote:

Ray Rider wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

Aradhus wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:Yes: "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith "

I believe you may be profoundly stupid, but there is no faith required in that belief.

"faith |fāθ| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something"

+1

Also, I get tired of every religion claiming that they are different from all other religions and therefore not a religion. The "we are the one exception" argument just doesn't cut it, and usually ends up discrediting the party that is propagating that line of reasoning.

No, but that's like comparing GPA and income (seewhatididthar?).

I love how ardent atheists are when people says atheism is a religion. Despite what you want to think, you do not have proof that god does not exist, so it is a belief. There also seems to be a strong central organization of atheism (Pope:Catholics::Dawkins:Atheists), so I tend to believe atheism is a religion*

I don't necessarily believe agnosticism is a religion, because there isn't really a central order (yet, or at least what I'm aware of).

agnosticism is also a belief, and there are lots of agnostics out there as vocal as skuawkings.

And your skuawkings argument was weaker than your joke about individualists.

* you tend to believe it because you're agnostic, and you back that with as much fervor as anybody does when they care about a belief)

are there any online agnostic communities out there? not atheist/agnostic, just agnostic

if agnostics got together frequently to pat each other on the back and reaffirm their own worldviews (as atheists do), then maybe i'd concede that agnosticism is a belief

No, agnosticism IS a belief. At least, the way I define it ("I BELIEVE that we can't know if there is/isn't any god(s)").

It isn't nearly as organized as atheism though, so I don't want to call it a religion (yet). Maybe I'm wrong, but there isn't really a "Dawkins" for agnostics. Honestly, I don't give a shit if we're considered a religion. That word doesn't bring about so much hatred in me.








And Aradhus, I know you love me <3

"we can't know if God exists" is strong agnosticism, which is a belief. weak agnosticism ("we don't know if God exists and make no claim one way or the other") isn't really a belief, it's more of a neutral statement of fact.

john9blue wrote:if agnostics got together frequently to pat each other on the back and reaffirm their own worldviews (as atheists do), then maybe i'd concede that agnosticism is a belief

What, you mean like you guys do here?

Most of the people still debating religion on this forum are "agnostics", you, AoG, natty, BBS.
Which atheists are still about? Juan, me(a little, I get bored quickly nowadays), erm, Neoteny?, who else?

inb4 "I'm not an agnostic, I'm an <insert obscure subgroup here>".

john9blue wrote: weak agnosticism ("we don't know if God exists and make no claim one way or the other") isn't really a belief, it's more of a neutral statement of fact.

Of course it's a statement of fact, which is why everyone who's not a "weak agnostic" is irrational.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

john9blue wrote:if agnostics got together frequently to pat each other on the back and reaffirm their own worldviews (as atheists do), then maybe i'd concede that agnosticism is a belief

What, you mean like you guys do here?

Most of the people still debating religion on this forum are "agnostics", you, AoG, natty, BBS.
Which atheists are still about? Juan, me(a little, I get bored quickly nowadays), erm, Neoteny?, who else?

inb4 "I'm not an agnostic, I'm an <insert obscure subgroup here>".

I'm not an agnostic. I'm a Groucho Marxist. <wiggles eyebrows, taps ash off cigar>

Classing atheism as a belief works for me as long as we class anything unprovable as a belief, which seems to be a bit redundant. What word should I use to class myself as someone who doesn't believe in astrology, or in unicorns.

I think the problem is that atheism is often described in the language of religion, when atheists generally don't think in those terms. Many religious people seem to want to explain atheism within a set of concepts designed to describe religion. Sorry AOG, but Richard Dawkins is not the pope of atheism.

J9Blue is I think closest in describing how I think about this. A belief, not a religion, however I'm wary of just saying it's a belief and walking away. There's an infinite amount of stuff we can believe in. There are things I believe in for which I have no evidence beyond my personal feelings. There are things I believe in that I have evidence for from experience. There are things that I believe that have external evidence but could be disproven.

Some atheists do use this line- belief in God is the same as belief in unicorns. It has a tiny bit of merit, but doesn't pass the smell test. Some religious people come use the same argument from the opposite side- not believing in God is also a matter of faith as it can't be proved. Unfortunately that equates belief in God with the unicorns argument again.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

john9blue wrote:if agnostics got together frequently to pat each other on the back and reaffirm their own worldviews (as atheists do), then maybe i'd concede that agnosticism is a belief

What, you mean like you guys do here?

Most of the people still debating religion on this forum are "agnostics", you, AoG, natty, BBS.
Which atheists are still about? Juan, me(a little, I get bored quickly nowadays), erm, Neoteny?, who else?

inb4 "I'm not an agnostic, I'm an <insert obscure subgroup here>".

i guess, but these are hardly debates compared to what went on back in the day, those were much more heated and divisive and i don't think that my religious views are the same as the people you listed...

Army of GOD wrote:
No, but that's like comparing GPA and income (seewhatididthar?).

I love how ardent atheists are when people says atheism is a religion. Despite what you want to think, you do not have proof that god does not exist, so it is a belief. There also seems to be a strong central organization of atheism (Pope:Catholics::Dawkins:Atheists), so I tend to believe atheism is a religion.

I don't necessarily believe agnosticism is a religion, because there isn't really a central order (yet, or at least what I'm aware of).

Yes it is a belief. Does a single belief make a religion? Because if that's all Atheism entails, a rejection of the supernatural or spiritual. It has no dogmas, it has no scriptures or prophets. Dawkins writes about atheism, but he does not speak for atheists as a whole, equating Dawkins to the pope would be like equating Osteen to the head honcho of all protestants. If all a religion takes is one belief, then fine Atheism is a "religion". In my opinion calling atheism a "religion" is somewhat of a cheapening of the word religion.

@Symmetry, Baron; all I hear is "blah blah blah I love Dawkins and want his cawk"

Army of GOD wrote:@Symmetry, Baron; all I hear is "blah blah blah I love Dawkins and want his cawk"

I'm not really a big fan of Dawkins, I find him pretty direspectfull and rude. However believe whatever you like.