Conquer Club

edbeard wrote:...well south africa is a horrible place to try and hold. you can be attacked in 7 places. africa in general is terribly difficult. if you start out in chinese empire an expand by getting the japanese empire, you're doing quite well...

Historically acurate then !

pamoa wrote:

edbeard wrote:...well south africa is a horrible place to try and hold. you can be attacked in 7 places. africa in general is terribly difficult. if you start out in chinese empire an expand by getting the japanese empire, you're doing quite well...

Historically acurate then !

ha. I was going to write that in the post too.

it's nice to be historically accurate but these maps are for playing a game. not saying the gameplay is bad on this map. I'm just saying it in general. And, I only bring all this up because of Oaktown's comment which I quoted before.

I've read the last posts, and it has driven me to re-visit the bonus spreadsheet.

Right now I have south africa at +5... my formula puts it at 6.45 if I consider the TC's attacking territories (which they are) and every colony a defending territory (which they also are). That's enough evidence for me to bring it up to a +6.

Horn of Africa comes out at +1.8, so I don't think it would hurt to bring that up to +2.

North Africa I think it a pretty solid +4.

What all of this means is that if somebody manages to hold all of Africa is will be a +12 with only three points which can actually be invaded, in addition to the eight territories that can be bombarded. I guess I can live with this, since the flip side of having only three invasion points is having only three expansion points. I think Africa will indeed be a tough start, but probably easier than Europe and way easier than Russia. I think Africa was made significantly easier with the addition of the Horn, as Africa now contains the smallest bonus region on the map and should be a pretty easier capture considering the # of armies everybody should start their first turns with.

I think the Horn of Africa could very well be a +2.
Where can you go holding the Horn with a +1? I think it could be possible if it were +2 to capture the Horn and then extend into either south or north africa which, seeing as the trading co's start with 4 neutrals, would be possible to hold, and get maybe a round or two of bonuses from that before having to worry about the trading co's.

Is it just me or does the flag for the German Trading ship looks like the Flag of Iraq?

l3eater wrote:Is it just me or does the flag for the German Trading ship looks like the Flag of Iraq?

Iraq flag:


German Empire Flag:

MrBenn wrote:

l3eater wrote:Is it just me or does the flag for the German Trading ship looks like the Flag of Iraq?

Iraq flag:


German Empire Flag:

Ok, i might no look like the Iraqi Flag but it does remind me of a flag, If you look closely you kinda see a dot

it doesn't really look like the iraqi flag at all... it's upside down.

l3eater wrote:Ok, i might no look like the Iraqi Flag but it does remind me of a flag, If you look closely you kinda see a dot

I think the 'dot' you can see is actually a 'ripple' from the flag blowing in the wind...

our russian empire has 12 territories with somewhat arbitrary boundaries. have u considered using the 13 military districts of the empire as a basis for territories, but treating ukraine (kiev and odessa) as one district rather than two, so that the overall number doesn't change?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_d ... ian_Empire)

the differences are listed below.

amur: amur plus kolyma (merged)
irkutsk: sakha plus taymyr (merged)
omsk: siberia
caucasus: stavropol
kazan: the southeastern part of perm
moscow (the glaringly-obvious omission!): the southwestern part of perm
warsaw: poland without the coastline, bordering vilno and ukraine
vilno: coastal poland plus southern st petersburg, bordering warsaw, ukraine, moscow and st petersburg, but not finland
st petersburg: central and northern st petersburg plus northern perm
turkestan, ukraine and finland: no change

the southern part of the ural mountains can be moved to the right to accommodate the extra western territories.

ian.

This map sucks.... I hate it...

Sameroh2 wrote:This map sucks.... I hate it...

got to state a reason why man. i dont like it for the ships and flags cause it overcomplicates a classic play map, other than that, it looks great.

dont badmouth peoples work unless u have a valid reason.

Sameroh2,

Those with multiple accounts should be careful attracting attention to themselves.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:Sameroh2,

Those with multiple accounts should be careful attracting attention to themselves.


--Andy

Keep up the good work - and keep the awesome mountains!!! (Gotta ensure there is positivity to the mountains!!)

C.

I dunno Oakey, I still think the gameplay is going to be totally crappy once its in play. The innovative portions of this map are centered around a few territories in europe. If you don't get any European territs from the drop its going to be a boring game. Also all of asia seems like a total waste. It's like you have two maps, one with normal bonuses and gameplay, and another one with neutrals and a different gameplay concept. Except these two different maps are not mingled, they are side by side. Its really a shame because the map looks great graphically, but its totally ruined by a gameplay concept that even at this point looks like an after thought.

The bottom line is that this map is a total mess conceptually. The implementation of the gameplay is not cohesive with the presentation of geography. The first few drafts were much more harmonious before you started torturing the map by sticking little flags and such everywhere. I see two possible outcomes for the map in play, 1, The map is very unpopular as people who would otherwise be attracted to the nice graphics and seemingly simple geography and bonuses are turned off by the concentration and emphasis on a select few territories that they most likely do not have any control over by round 2. OR 2, the trading company system falls by the wayside and people try their best to play the map as if it were a standard geography map and try to ignore all the other stuff going on because it doesn't really matter anyways.

If you want to continue down this road, then I see one adjustment that will help spread out the gameplay. Since Europe is already the hub of your strategic gameplan, why load it up with a +8 bonus? Remove the Europe bonus and make the European powers desirable because of their strategic advantage. What will compel players to use the trading companies? The strategic advantage will. Currently, there is so much power in that one small portion of the map that all players are compelled to be there, and if they aren't well its a long boring game. At least with no bonus it won't feel like such a case of the haves and the have-nots

Manchuria should be part of both the Japanese and Russian Empires.

mibi wrote:...totally crappy once its in play ... its going to be a boring game ... its totally ruined by a gameplay concept that even at this point looks like an after thought ... this map is a total mess conceptually ... gameplay is not cohesive ... torturing the map by sticking little flags and such everywhere ...

Since Europe is already the hub of your strategic gameplan, why load it up with a +8 bonus? Remove the Europe bonus and make the European powers desirable because of their strategic advantage. What will compel players to use the trading companies? The strategic advantage will ...

Sounds a very rude comment for very interesting map and a lot of noise for a simple suggestion!
An interesting suggestion lowering the bonus of Europe as its real power is the power of each nation to control the world with Trading Co's.

pamoa wrote:Sounds a very rude comment for very interesting map and a lot of noise for a simple suggestion!
An interesting suggestion lowering the bonus of Europe as its real power is the power of each nation to control the world with Trading Co's.

here here

pamoa wrote:

mibi wrote:...totally crappy once its in play ... its going to be a boring game ... its totally ruined by a gameplay concept that even at this point looks like an after thought ... this map is a total mess conceptually ... gameplay is not cohesive ... torturing the map by sticking little flags and such everywhere ...

Since Europe is already the hub of your strategic gameplan, why load it up with a +8 bonus? Remove the Europe bonus and make the European powers desirable because of their strategic advantage. What will compel players to use the trading companies? The strategic advantage will ...

Sounds a very rude comment for very interesting map and a lot of noise for a simple suggestion!
An interesting suggestion lowering the bonus of Europe as its real power is the power of each nation to control the world with Trading Co's.

Yeah what was I thinking, I don't really know much about map making and stuffz.

I think I've said before I'd rather this map just be a standard 'classic' style map. I think it'd be quite cool like that.

alright, here are the options before us (I could create a poll, but I personally think that they're useless in most cases)

1. leave the gameplay as-is, with colonial powers taking boats and boats bombarding colonies
2. leave the trading companies but eliminating/reducing the Europe bonus (mibi's suggestion)
3. lose the trading companies altogether and making this classic gameplay (edbeard's choice)
4. doing something else (see below)

What I personally think of each:

1. I think that the current configuration is the best we've come up with so far, but I'm not without concerns. I fear that either the trading companies will be ignored entirely, or that those regions that are free of any trading co. bombardment (Japan, Middle East, China) will become the most valuable on the board as nothing in Africa can be held.

2. Eliminating the Europe bonus entirely may have the unintended consequence of taking Europe out of play in most games - it's already a difficult hold, but if there's nothing to gain from holding it other than the chance to waste armies hitting a neutral and then waste more armies on bombardments that net no new territories, I would ignore that area entirely.

3. Losing the Trading Co's would certainly make the map simpler, but it would also make Europe relatively weak - the strongest regions historically becomes the weakest region practically.

4. I have a something else to throw at you all: what if we gave a bonus for keeping an "Empire" together: hold Great Britain and all colony flags for a +6 (for example), hold Germany and all German colonies for a +4, etc. This would simplify gameplay by making it 'classic' but would still give some due additional value to the European territories. It would encourage players drop armies to hold their European powers even if they weren't going after Europe, and from a historical perspective it would be appropriate to have a big military build-up in Europe in the years following 1910. Think about it, European powers bulk up at home while they try to hold their colonies overseas, leading to a great war... sounds familiar.

[bigimg]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/ron_parodi/hemisphere26.jpg[/bigimg]
Here's a version without the Trading Companies... what happens now is that the flags represent only a BONUS and can not attack each other (I may need to say that in the legend).

I kinda miss the trading company idea, but perhaps I can better work that into a future map... india maybe. Hmm.

=thumbs up=

that works quite well

africa is holdable (though s. africa bonus is probably +4)

the Europe twist is a good one

russia is kinda a 'no man's land' but being up in the northeast makes it more feasible to actually hold in a longer campaign.

oceania +3?

yeah, this twist means rethinking all of the bonuses - there are suddenly fewer attack routes everywhere.

edit: actually, the current bonuses are in-line with the bonus calculators. The thing that might push S. Africa back to just a +4 is the fact that it gets another +3 if you also hold Germany. Oceania I could go either way.

Another thing... now that we aren't playing trading co's, should I give Portugal an Empire?