Conquer Club

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

pilate065 wrote:I'm not sure a whale evolved from a wolf-like creature per se.

no, it did.

EVIDENCED BY? You just can come on here and post stuff as FACT and expect everyone to take it as fact!

Otherwise I could say I was OJ Simpson and you'd have to believe it.

jay_a2j wrote:

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

pilate065 wrote:I'm not sure a whale evolved from a wolf-like creature per se.

no, it did.

EVIDENCED BY? You just can come on here and post stuff as FACT and expect everyone to take it as fact!

Otherwise I could say I was OJ Simpson and you'd have to believe it.

the fossil records that museums have now. it shows the slow process of how the wolf like animal became the whale. and please do not make me restate it. do you not even read the things people type? i gave even more evidence in previous posts. IE. the vestigial pelvic and hind limb bones.

You know... My simple solution is to believe in god... If he doesn't exist, ah well, if he and heaven does exist, then I will go to heaven (hopefully lol) and it doesn't matter...

And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

jay_a2j wrote:Creation as decribed in the book of Genesis is far more believable than big bang, prehistoric oose, eternal meteors or anything else science can come up with to explain life (apart from the existence of God).

oh yeah, a big guy in the sky created everything in 6 days. oh yeah muuuuch more believeable than than physics and the string theory which you so aptly left out.

jay_a2j wrote:And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

well is there?

Haydena wrote:You know... My simple solution is to believe in god... If he doesn't exist, ah well, if he and heaven does exist, then I will go to heaven (hopefully lol) and it doesn't matter...

Not that easy. God will say to those who never knew him, "Depart from me, I never knew you"

You just can't "believe" in God as a free pass to heaven.

Nicodemus asked "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus replied, "You must be born again"

This is a spiritual re-birth. Born once die twice (phyisical and spiritual) or Born twice die once (phyisical)


You must know God on a personal level.

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

well is there?

I'm sure there is.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/

jay_a2j wrote:You must know God on a personal level.

Knowing God on a personal level is impossible... And I don't just see god as a free pass to heaven, I attend church every now and again. But I do not devote my life to him as some people do...

jay_a2j wrote:EVIDENCED BY? You just can come on here and post stuff as FACT and expect everyone to take it as fact!

Otherwise I could say I was OJ Simpson and you'd have to believe it.

jay_a2j wrote:

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

well is there?

I'm sure there is.

What a hypocrite

Haydena wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:You must know God on a personal level.

Knowing God on a personal level is impossible... And I don't just see god as a free pass to heaven, I attend church every now and again. But I do not devote my life to him as some people do...

To the rich man, "Sell everything you own and follow me" (Jesus)

The ONLY thing that matters in this life if your relationship to God. Possesions, fame, money...it will all pass away. "Store up treasures in Heaven" for they are eternal.

The life span of a human being is a drop of water in the ocean of time. You will spend FAR more time in eternity then on Earth.

i think john rennie can explain best what i can't seem to get across,

"...This blanket dismissal of evolution ignores important distinctions that divide the field into at least two broad areas : microevolution and macroevolution. Microevolution looks at changes within species over time -- changes that may be preludes to speciation, the origin of new species. Macroevolution studies how taxonomic groups above the level of species change. Its evidence draws frequently from the fossil record and DNA comparisons to reconstruct how various organisms may be related.

These days even most creationists acknowledge that microevolution has been upheld by tests in the laboratory (as in studies of cells, plants and fruit flies) and in the field (as in Grant's studies of evolving beak shapes among Galápagos finches). Natural selection and other mechanisms -- such as chromosomal changes, symbiosis and hybridization -- can drive profound changes in populations over time.

The historical nature of macroevolutionary study involves inference from fossils and DNA rather than direct observation. Yet in the historical sciences (which include astronomy, geology and archaeology, as well as evolutionary biology), hypotheses can still be tested by checking whether they accord with physical evidence and whether they lead to verifiable predictions about future discoveries. For instance, evolution implies that between the earliest-known ancestors of humans (roughly five million years old) and the appearance of anatomically modern humans (about 100,000 years ago), one should find a succession of hominid creatures with features progressively less apelike and more modern, which is indeed what the fossil record shows. But one should not -- and does not -- find modern human fossils embedded in strata from the Jurassic period (144 million years ago). Evolutionary biology routinely makes predictions far more refined and precise than this, and researchers test them constantly."

pilate065 wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:EVIDENCED BY? You just can come on here and post stuff as FACT and expect everyone to take it as fact!

Otherwise I could say I was OJ Simpson and you'd have to believe it.

jay_a2j wrote:

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

well is there?

I'm sure there is.

What a hypocrite

Who are you calling hypocrite????? Must I do the research for you???? And I did by the way...did you see the edit in that post?


And a hypocrite is someone who says "Do this" yet doesn't do it himself. OR "Don't do that" and turns around and does it. How were you using the word?

jay_a2j wrote:

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

well is there?

I'm sure there is.

jay im tired of this, ive read your posts for the last 3 pages... now here is what you need to do if your gonna get into this arguement, research both sides, like any good debater should do that way this does not go into the flame wars section, because otherwise you are just sittin there like a moron and constantly insulting others...

you do not read everyones full post, you pick a part and ignore the rest and then choose to focus on that part, and when someone comes back and says that, yes indeed they did provide proof, but you proof to be a moron and a close minded moron at that, because you do not want to go and check out what people say as fact, and then continue to spew insults... when you dont like what they say

now some pages back someone said that they are tired of anti-christians trying to press their beliefs or something on others...

let me make this clear, i am not anti-christians, i am anti-religion, yes i am atheist (Atheisim is the belief in nothing, not towards science nor towards religion) in fact as a Atheist, i am the best person to be talking to on this subject and i am the nearest to unbuyest as possible (some spelling does suck for me lol)

I hate religion, i love people who have faith, i seperate them by the fact that religion has rules and you must do certain things to attain heaven and if you dont believe in the religions/churchs rules you will go to hell, this is why i hate religion, Faith is much better, i think faith is the belief in something out there (be it god or some other form) and you make your own rules, as long as it is RIGHT, AND MORALLY GOOD that you will go to heaven, of course the only ones that can judge what is right and morally good is the community of us humans...

now here is as i see it, you wanna say god is eternal and yadda yadda, but where did god come from, can you honestly give me that orgins of god? not the orgins of man and the first time man met god i mean when god first was "created" in itself...

Science cannot disprove god, no where does it say that, it can disprove a lot of what is in the bible, but the bible was written to try and teach the basic thoughts of love, and what is right, as long as you ignore the faith and treat it as stories, as it is stories, it gives moral advice, and yes i have read the bible it was a while ago....

Science is full of theories, and there are some facts but theories like the Big Bang THEORY they can all possibly be disproven, but unless you have solid facts on gods exsistance then people who truley believe in science, your not gonna change their mind, and religion is based on faith, its a more controlled area of faith, as in you gotta do this and that, but it is based on faith and FAITH is something invisable, and if you are truley commited to something, your faith will not be shaken.

in the end this convo has nothing better to offer then to let people who want to argue to argue, and for some people to truley show how unwilling they are to go out on a limb

i personally am willing to hear out anyone, as long as they do it calmly, do not go into personal bickering, and do not act like ignorant asses and allow their minds to be open as they expect my mind to be open, i will sit there and try and shake your faith in both science and God, or whatever religion you do happen to have, by any means nesscery while talking, as in i will use christians beliefs against science, i might use christians beliefs to go after pegans or a combo of both science and christians against any religion and vice versa....

now here is some wise words... GET OVER IT!

jay_a2j wrote:

Haydena wrote:You know... My simple solution is to believe in god... If he doesn't exist, ah well, if he and heaven does exist, then I will go to heaven (hopefully lol) and it doesn't matter...

Not that easy. God will say to those who never knew him, "Depart from me, I never knew you"

You just can't "believe" in God as a free pass to heaven.

Nicodemus asked "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus replied, "You must be born again"

This is a spiritual re-birth. Born once die twice (phyisical and spiritual) or Born twice die once (phyisical)


You must know God on a personal level.

Thank you ... I was waiting for someone to bring up Pascal’s Wager.

alot of time saying nothing..... if you don't like the thread don't come in it. If you can't handle the rebutting of your beliefs, who then is closeminded?

morph wrote:i personally am willing to hear out anyone, as long as they do it calmly, do not go into personal bickering, and do not act like ignorant asses and allow their minds to be open as they expect my mind to be open, i will sit there and try and shake your faith in both science and God, or whatever religion you do happen to have, by any means nesscery while talking, as in i will use christians beliefs against science, i might use christians beliefs to go after pegans or a combo of both science and christians against any religion and vice versa....

now here is some wise words... GET OVER IT!

jay_a2j wrote:alot of time saying nothing..... if you don't like the thread don't come in it. If you can't handle the rebutting of your beliefs, who then is closeminded?

Morph, if you do not like jay_a2j acting like an ignorant ass, then don't come in this thread.

jay_a2j wrote:

pilate065 wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:EVIDENCED BY? You just can come on here and post stuff as FACT and expect everyone to take it as fact!

Otherwise I could say I was OJ Simpson and you'd have to believe it.

jay_a2j wrote:

dagreatbroomhead wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:And I could say there is evidence of creation in a museum somewhere and I guess you'd take that as fact right? Give me a break.

well is there?

I'm sure there is.

What a hypocrite

Who are you calling hypocrite????? Must I do the research for you???? And I did by the way...did you see the edit in that post?


And a hypocrite is someone who says "Do this" yet doesn't do it himself. OR "Don't do that" and turns around and does it. How were you using the word?

Wow, an internet site. We all know how authentic those are. Nice job.

a little off topic, but this is the off topic thread...would anyone like to have a battle of the creationism on a classic map? ...this is no way constitutes a "ye who wins is right" rule. it would just be fun.

does anyone here have premium so they can set it up?

jay_a2j wrote:Evolution is not a fact for starters. I remember (back in the 80's) my science teacher saying, " ok, now we are going to study evolution...it is a theory that I personaly don't believe but I have to teach it anyways" And he never mentioned whalewolfs.

While the Whale-Wolf thing sounds a bit farfetched, he never actually claimed that a whale evolved from a wolf. he said that the land-based ancestor of the whale resembled a wolf, in much the same way that a velociraptor resembles a large, evil chicken. However, resembling something is a long way from being a link to something.

Theory (as with any branch of science) is based on fact, hypothesis and debate. The observable event of the earth revolving around the sun is a theory. And that too is contradicted by the Bible.

I also used to take issue with my college professor who was an evolutionist and leftist.

Because he was leftist, evolution-supporting, or both?

Creation as decribed in the book of Genesis is far more believable than big bang, prehistoric oose, eternal meteors or anything else science can come up with to explain life (apart from the existence of God).

Not really.

Big Bang: Cosmic matter compressed to a point where the energy held withing reached a critical state and exploded, spinning out all of the materials that make up our modern universe
Creation: An all-powerful being that seems to have no origin point created matter and energy from nothing.

They're equally hard to believe from a neutral standpoint.

From Wikipedia:

Distinctions between theory and fact

Further information: Theory

The modern synthesis, like its Mendelian and Darwinian antecedents, is a scientific theory. When speaking casually, people use the word "theory" to signify "conjecture", "speculation", or "opinion." [6] In this sense, "theories" are opposed to "facts" – parts of the world, or claims about the world, that are real or true regardless of what people think. In scientific terminology however, a theory is a model of the world (or some portion of it) from which falsifiable predictions can be generated and tested through controlled experiments, or be verified through empirical observation.

In this scientific sense, "facts" exist only as parts of theories – they are things, or relationships between things, that theories must take for granted in order to make predictions, or that theories predict. In other words, for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not stand in opposition, but rather exist in a reciprocal relationship – for example, it is a "fact" that every apple ever dropped on earth (under normal, controlled conditions) has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet in a straight line, and the "theory" which explains these observations is the current theory of gravitation. In this same sense evolution is an observed fact and the modern synthesis is currently the most powerful theory explaining evolution. Within the science of biology, modern synthesis has completely replaced earlier accepted explanations for the origin of species, including Lamarckism and creationism.

- Jay, while it is admirable for you to defend something you believe in, you do it a disservice by arguing against evolution. There really is no debate any more, not from any reasonable scientists over the existence of evolution. Evolution is real man. We have found skeletons of the protohumans, we have found vestigal feathers on dinosaurs, we have seen speciation in birds and insects, you just cant really argue it any more from a valid standpoint. Its like arguing about Copernican astronomy - outdated. The human species is thousands of years older than the bible says. Its true. Verifiably true. The modern Christian usually argues from the standpoint that evolution and science are not inherentally at odds with religion - that the bible interpreted in the context of the culture who composed it and taken metaphorically is still valid - the old guard arguments make you look backwards and uneducated. Like the church insisting that man came before animals and that the earth is the center of the universe.

Semanticprison

i must say i really like that post, just because the thought is really put together well...

and i am interested in that creationist and scientific thingy game lol and also dagreatbroomhead what is your job, i mean in the real world, you seem big on science...

morph wrote:Semanticprison

i must say i really like that post, just because the thought is really put together well...

and i am interested in that creationist and scientific thingy game lol and also dagreatbroomhead what is your job, i mean in the real world, you seem big on science...

well my job has nothing to do with science (aka. still in high school), i do have an interest and would like to major in it someday, but for today, I'll just take all the science classes i can get.

pilate065 wrote:
Wow, an internet site. We all know how authentic those are. Nice job.

It is a place...read the info on the site. It is an actual museum. At least there is an address of this museum unlike the whalewolf museum.

marik wrote: "The observable event of the earth revolving around the sun is a theory. And that too is contradicted by the Bible. " <<<<< This is the SECOND time you have posted this and failed both times to give chapter and verse. I don't recall any verse that states the sun revolving around the Earth.


And to answer your question....I took issue for both reasons but mainly because he was leftist.