Conquer Club

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

For my part, I care so much because of what he has done to Jobiwan. And I DO think that is a big deal.

Are you forgetting that none of this would have happened if Jobiwan was actually here, playing CC? He did this to himself, and Blitz just took advantage of that.

To escalate your logic Jobi's loved one made this to him by dying. Do not forget that the gunner is guilty, not the gun manufacturer.

Dukasaur wrote:

jefjef wrote:Looks like a rank envy thread.

Upon reflection Warning was the correct decision. The ONLY thing he can be proven guilty of is joining those public games. Everything else was a witch hunt.

I thought so when the case was first posted. But once I started looking into the history of tournament games Jobiwan was listed in, I realized it was a deliberate campaign. Jobiwan was being joined into new tournament games on the same day that he was missing turns in other tournaments. That just isn't right, and the fact that it's technically allowed by the rules doesn't make it right. Whether it was Blitz or Lulu or some other turn sitter I have no way of knowing, which is why I haven't been more vocal in these debates. But whoever it was cannot pretend to believe that it was a well-intentioned error.

If what you say is true... then it is a serious case we have here. Each post has it's own IP associated with it, so if you can link those tournaments in question - multi hunters can always check which IP made those posts.

Dako wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

For my part, I care so much because of what he has done to Jobiwan. And I DO think that is a big deal.

Are you forgetting that none of this would have happened if Jobiwan was actually here, playing CC? He did this to himself, and Blitz just took advantage of that.

To escalate your logic Jobi's loved one made this to him by dying. Do not forget that the gunner is guilty, not the gun manufacturer.

Ok but it's not Blitz's job to play Jobiwan's games for him. Was accepting those tournament invites underhanded and dirty? Yeah, but it was also implicitly protected by the rules.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

For my part, I care so much because of what he has done to Jobiwan. And I DO think that is a big deal.

Are you forgetting that none of this would have happened if Jobiwan was actually here, playing CC? He did this to himself, and Blitz just took advantage of that.

No, I'm sorry but I must disagree with you entirely. Jobiwan DID NOT "do this to himself". He did provide an opportunity, but that is all he is guilty of...trusting someone to take care of his account. BLITZAHOLIC did this. There is no other answer.

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

For my part, I care so much because of what he has done to Jobiwan. And I DO think that is a big deal.

Are you forgetting that none of this would have happened if Jobiwan was actually here, playing CC? He did this to himself, and Blitz just took advantage of that.

No, I'm sorry but I must disagree with you entirely. Jobiwan DID NOT "do this to himself". He did provide an opportunity, but that is all he is guilty of...trusting someone to take care of his account. BLITZAHOLIC did this. There is no other answer.

The only thing Blitz did that was against the rules was to join non-tournament games on Jobiwan's account. There is no other answer.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Dako wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

For my part, I care so much because of what he has done to Jobiwan. And I DO think that is a big deal.

Are you forgetting that none of this would have happened if Jobiwan was actually here, playing CC? He did this to himself, and Blitz just took advantage of that.

To escalate your logic Jobi's loved one made this to him by dying. Do not forget that the gunner is guilty, not the gun manufacturer.

Ok but it's not Blitz's job to play Jobiwan's games for him. Was accepting those tournament invites underhanded and dirty? Yeah, but it was also implicitly protected by the rules.

Again, I disagree entirely. The rules do not in any way implicitly protect using another account as your own. Blitz is absolutely guilty of using a cook multi in his team games, and intentionally keeping that cook multi at cook by joining and then deadbeating those other games.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

For my part, I care so much because of what he has done to Jobiwan. And I DO think that is a big deal.

Are you forgetting that none of this would have happened if Jobiwan was actually here, playing CC? He did this to himself, and Blitz just took advantage of that.

No, I'm sorry but I must disagree with you entirely. Jobiwan DID NOT "do this to himself". He did provide an opportunity, but that is all he is guilty of...trusting someone to take care of his account. BLITZAHOLIC did this. There is no other answer.

The only thing Blitz did that was against the rules was to join non-tournament games on Jobiwan's account. There is no other answer.

So you don't believe that multi-accounts are against the rules?

Metsfanmax wrote:Why do people even think this important? I mean really, a guy broke the rules, he was warned. It's not that big of a deal, and you all are giving this guy much more attention than he deserves.

Well, for me it started with one tiny point, and gradually grew from there. I'm running a tournament into which I've put a lot of work, and Jobiwan was in that tournament. He joined all his games and then deadbeated out of them. (I say "he joined" as a convenience... I know someone else did this to him.) Some of the games in this tournament involve team games with randomly-assigned team-mates, and Jobi was in one of those, a quad. His team lost the game, and two of his team-mates have been eliminated from the tournament. Their overall scores were high enough that if they had won that one game, they would not be eliminated.

Who knows? Maybe they would have lost the game even if Jobi had played, maybe not. I can't break the rules and allow those players to go to the next phase without someone else feeling cheated. Nor can I order the game re-played, because the other team feels they won fair and square, and they would feel cheated if Jobi was replaced with someone new and the someone new won the game.

The tournament will go on, the eliminated players will get over it, but I myself feel tainted. No, it's not a huge deal, but something that felt clean now feels dirty.

Once I started researching this, and looking into just how many tournaments Jobi was deadbeated in, it made me think just how many other TO's feel that something was tainted in their tournament. (From reading this thread, obviously gradybridges thinks so, as just one example.) And while I began by being only a tiny bit irritated, I have gradually gotten more and more irate as time goes on and I see just how big this thing was.

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:The only thing Blitz did that was against the rules was to join non-tournament games on Jobiwan's account. There is no other answer.

So you don't believe that multi-accounts are against the rules?

Blitz did not own Jobiwan's account, he just had the password, same as any other sitter.

Jobiwan was going to lose points either way because of what happened in RL. The only thing Blitz did to further that loss of points was to accept those tournament invites, an action protected by the rules; furthermore, while him inviting Jobiwan to team games was indeed against the rules, that action probably saved Jobiwan some points.

Pretty much every single one of you is holding Blitz responsible for the fact that Jobiwan more or less quit CC, which is completely illogical and I'm not going to bother arguing it anymore.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:The only thing Blitz did that was against the rules was to join non-tournament games on Jobiwan's account. There is no other answer.

So you don't believe that multi-accounts are against the rules?

Blitz did not own Jobiwan's account, he just had the password, same as any other sitter.

Jobiwan was going to lose points either way because of what happened in RL. The only thing Blitz did to further that loss of points was to accept those tournament invites, an action protected by the rules; furthermore, while him inviting Jobiwan to team games was indeed against the rules, that action probably saved Jobiwan some points.

Pretty much every single one of you is holding Blitz responsible for the fact that Jobiwan more or less quit CC, which is completely illogical and I'm not going to bother arguing it anymore.

If he quit CC, then the good sitter would inform the TO's that Jobi was dropping out of the tournament, not accept and deadbeat. And the whole point of the sitter is to play the turns, not deadbeat them. If he really quit, then a sitter wouldn't be necessary, because the end result would have been the same minus the collateral damage done to the tournaments that started after he left.

Metsfanmax wrote:Jobiwan was going to lose points either way because of what happened in RL. The only thing Blitz did to further that loss of points was to accept those tournament invites, an action protected by the rules; furthermore, while him inviting Jobiwan to team games was indeed against the rules, that action probably saved Jobiwan some points.

Pretty much every single one of you is holding Blitz responsible for the fact that Jobiwan more or less quit CC, which is completely illogical and I'm not going to bother arguing it anymore.

You have logic in your words. But what we are discussing there, was Blitz joining games by Jobi a way to dump his points or not? Also, "saving few points" is illegal by the site rules. So you cannot say "he is a good person, he broke the rules to help him win some points". This is the kind of help no one wants from you.

Dako wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:Jobiwan was going to lose points either way because of what happened in RL. The only thing Blitz did to further that loss of points was to accept those tournament invites, an action protected by the rules; furthermore, while him inviting Jobiwan to team games was indeed against the rules, that action probably saved Jobiwan some points.

Pretty much every single one of you is holding Blitz responsible for the fact that Jobiwan more or less quit CC, which is completely illogical and I'm not going to bother arguing it anymore.

You have logic in your words. But what we are discussing there, was Blitz joining games by Jobi a way to dump his points or not? Also, "saving few points" is illegal by the site rules. So you cannot say "he is a good person, he broke the rules to help him win some points". This is the kind of help no one wants from you.

I think what Blitz did was AWFUL just like everyone else did. I don't even think there's disagreement on the fact that Blitz was dumping Jobi's points. However, the rules seemed to imply that accepting tournament invites on an account you're sitting for is legitimate. Obviously this rule is going to need some amendment in the future, but at the time of the action, the rules were in Blitz's favor in terms of the difference between getting warned and getting banned.

It is undeniably true that your tournament was tainted. Knowing the details It is very clear that someone had an unfair advantage. I feel that ruining the purity of your tournament is a more severe offense simply because of the number of people involved. Essentially the infraction was against EVERYONE in the tournament. I feel like everyone in that tournament should find justice against him sort of like in a class action suit. It's like if a kid gets caught cheating on a spelling test he gets a warning, maybe, but if that same kid gets caught cheating after he won the state spelling bee... well that's a whole different story.

Metsfanmax wrote:I think what Blitz did was AWFUL just like everyone else did. I don't even think there's disagreement on the fact that Blitz was dumping Jobi's points. However, the rules seemed to imply that accepting tournament invites on an account you're sitting for is legitimate. Obviously this rule is going to need some amendment in the future, but at the time of the action, the rules were in Blitz's favor in terms of the difference between getting warned and getting banned.

Yeah, rules were totally clear at the moment. However we can make a precedent and revisit the rules, and maybe the incident as well.

Good to know you are on the same page.

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With Blitz's experience and time spent on the site, I think he should have known better. When you have a veteran that does something along these lines, the result is always an example. Blitz should have received some sort of punishment that was more than just a warning. Nobody can play CC as long as he has, and be as community oriented, without knowing the rules.

TheMissionary wrote:Joined:
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Total posts:
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With Blitz's experience and time spent on the site, I think he should have known better. When you have a veteran that does something along these lines, the result is always an example. Blitz should have received some sort of punishment that was more than just a warning. Nobody can play CC as long as he has, and be as community oriented, without knowing the rules.

What matters more than any 'cheating' that occurred is that the impact of the decision to just enter jobiwan and then not take the turns has greater ramifications.

To argue that Sitsaholic didn't actually break the rules is to stand on a point of law and forget totally the moral principle behind such an action. Whilst to argue like this in a court of law may be fine, communities exist on protocols and the expectation of standards.

Should a person put themselves forward, constantly and unremittingly, as some kind of icon to which others should aspire then it is their duty and their responsibility to ensure they live by the standards they set. When they are found guilty of being considerably less and have so obviously broken those standards they have two choices. They can either own up, take the punishment of the community and redeem themselves or they can take the cowards way out, try to ride the whole thing, hope people will forget and in time continue the same way they were. Unfortunately, due to this being an online community there are a couple of things which destroy the second options effectiveness. One being that there is now a written record which, through the age of electronics, can be referred to quite easily for as long as there is will to do so, so to try to cover the old tracks is impossible, history cannot, in this case, be rewritten.

It is unfortunate that the people involved in this whole debacle have not come forwards and taken the former option. For as time continues they only show themselves in worse and worse light. More and more people post how distasteful they find the actions and still they don't come forward. Accusations are levelled with evidence and still they don't come forward.

These actions are not the actions of some one who holds themselves out to be a community leader, they are the actions of a vain, self interested, weak willed person...hardly the stuff leaders are made of.

The amount of blame that is justified depends on Blitz's intent, and nobody can know what that was for sure. I know that some of you think you do, but that is only an opinion. Perhaps it was a thoughtless mistake. As has been said, I see no reason for the scheming that so many of you think occurred, because he was already conqueror. He did offer an apology of sorts and it was ripped apart, as anything he said would be. No kidding, keep quiet.

As attacks become more vicious, it looks more and more to me like some players who hold a terrible grudge for past disagreements taking fortuitous revenge on poor Blitzy. Talk about kicking someone when they are down. And way to encourage Eddie.

Denise wrote:The amount of blame that is justified depends on Blitz's intent, and nobody can know what that was for sure. I know that some of you think you do, but that is only an opinion. Perhaps it was a thoughtless mistake. As has been said, I see no reason for the scheming that so many of you think occurred, because he was already conqueror. He did offer an apology of sorts and it was ripped apart, as anything he said would be. No kidding, keep quiet.

As attacks become more vicious, it looks more and more to me like some players who hold a terrible grudge for past disagreements taking fortuitous revenge on poor Blitzy. Talk about kicking someone when they are down. And way to encourage Eddie.

well stated Denise

some people have no life except sitting in this thread and keeping repeating and despising Blitz over & over. I'm not defending him of course, but i hate it when someone is over-blamed and jeopardized by both the admin and community.

Nice Kiss.
I like Eddie, btw.

Funkyterrance wrote:Nice Kiss.
I like Eddie, btw.

really??? he thinks you are multi

Denise wrote:The amount of blame that is justified depends on Blitz's intent, and nobody can know what that was for sure. I know that some of you think you do, but that is only an opinion. Perhaps it was a thoughtless mistake. As has been said, I see no reason for the scheming that so many of you think occurred, because he was already conqueror. He did offer an apology of sorts and it was ripped apart, as anything he said would be. No kidding, keep quiet.

As attacks become more vicious, it looks more and more to me like some players who hold a terrible grudge for past disagreements taking fortuitous revenge on poor Blitzy. Talk about kicking someone when they are down. And way to encourage Eddie.

Your opening sentence does no justice to the cause of the accused. For what you are saying is that if he did not have intent then he was too stupid to see what the ramifications of his actions were. Logic dictates that to carry your argument one stage further means we have a complete idiot as a conqueror. Either he knew or he didn't, either way it does not reflect well upon him.

You use the word 'thoughtless' in a somewhat offhand way. Are you saying that this man who holds himself out to be a great player on a game that actually requires a skill of risk management to ascertain one's rank is without this skill? This is a man who has spent years setting himself on a platform of probity and success at playing, be that through points, medals or in the forums.

You then continue with the argument that you see no reason for scheming....well neither do we. It was bound to be found out, after all a conqueror is generally under scrutiny anyway. In the absence of a truly believable statement to the contrary we can only assume this 'scheming' was the motivating factor.

Your words 'He did offer an apology of sorts' speak volumes. If even you, a supporter, cannot bring themselves to say an outright 'apology' what chance is there the rest of us are going to take any notice?

Finally you go on to talk about attacks being more vicious. The attacks are simply an exploration of the truth. Once again, in the absence of any other real statement with constructed reasoning as to the act taken this subject will not go away. It may look to you as if those with a grudge are taking revenge, but this does not bear close scrutiny. Revenge can only be delivered if the chance presents itself. Sitsaholic had plenty of opportunity to put this to bed quickly right at the start. He need only have come forward, held his hands up and then those who wanted to take revenge would have had the wind taken out of their sails in double quick time. This he did not do. We received lightweight posts from a couple of his clan, a 3rd party apology care of Robinette, and finally the odd supporter coming out with further lightweight reasons and in your case, caveats, to their defending of him.

Fruitcake wrote:

Denise wrote:The amount of blame that is justified depends on Blitz's intent, and nobody can know what that was for sure. I know that some of you think you do, but that is only an opinion. Perhaps it was a thoughtless mistake. As has been said, I see no reason for the scheming that so many of you think occurred, because he was already conqueror. He did offer an apology of sorts and it was ripped apart, as anything he said would be. No kidding, keep quiet.

As attacks become more vicious, it looks more and more to me like some players who hold a terrible grudge for past disagreements taking fortuitous revenge on poor Blitzy. Talk about kicking someone when they are down. And way to encourage Eddie.

Your opening sentence does no justice to the cause of the accused. For what you are saying is that if he did not have intent then he was too stupid to see what the ramifications of his actions were. Logic dictates that to carry your argument one stage further means we have a complete idiot as a conqueror. Either he knew or he didn't, either way it does not reflect well upon him.

You use the word 'thoughtless' in a somewhat offhand way. Are you saying that this man who holds himself out to be a great player on a game that actually requires a skill of risk management to ascertain one's rank is without this skill? This is a man who has spent years setting himself on a platform of probity and success at playing, be that through points, medals or in the forums.

You then continue with the argument that you see no reason for scheming....well neither do we. It was bound to be found out, after all a conqueror is generally under scrutiny anyway. In the absence of a truly believable statement to the contrary we can only assume this 'scheming' was the motivating factor.

Your words 'He did offer an apology of sorts' speak volumes. If even you, a supporter, cannot bring them,selves to say an outright 'apology what chance is there the rest of us are going to take any notice?

Finally you go on to talk about attacks being more vicious. The attacks are simply an exploration of the truth. Once again, in the absence of any other real statement with constructed reasoning as to the act taken this subject will not go away. It may look to you as if those with a grudge are taking revenge, but this does not bear close scrutiny. Revenge can only be delivered if the chance presents itself. Sitsaholic had plenty of opportunity to put this to bed quickly right at the start. He need only have come forward, held his hands up and then those who wanted to take revenge would have had the wind taken out of their sails in double quick time. This he did not do. We received lightweight posts from a couple of his clan, a 3rd party apology care of Robinette, and finally the odd supporter coming out with further lightweight reasons and in your case, caveats, to their defending of him.

I would hardly call denise a supporter but more of an observer...in fact I who often get annoyed at Blitz for the content and manner of his posts agree with her here. Yeah we can all say he should have known better, I don't think you will find many who say differently but lets be honest, any punishment but the one already dealt to Blitz would have been too much. Seriously everyone should learn to leave this crap alone its over with and posting now will accomplish nothing good.

We all know blitz is a bit pretentious and it can be annoying but seriously its an online risk site let other people do what they want. Truth be told the mood of the forums where everyone attacks each other is getting old. I have been involved in some similar discussions about the type of games i play. Yes I am a farmer, but I don't break any CC rules and would stop if the rules were changed. Leave people be and let them play the game they want to. If they are doing something against the rules the mods will take care of it but all this means nothing and is pointless. Props to blitz for staying quiet and not posting, it will only serve to fuel the fire and cause this whole saga to be dragged out further, I doubt i would be able to do what he is right now.

Damn, looks like this will outshine tofu-kort conflict. Blitz is #1 again. Aww.

Dako wrote:Damn, looks like this will outshine tofu-kort conflict. Blitz is #1 again. Aww.

In the eyes of the entire forum community i would have to agree, but i doubt it will in the eyes of the clan community. Lets remember the only reason the KORT-TOFU thing stopped was because the thread was locked...even now it continues from time to time...