stahrgazer wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:stahrgazer wrote:I'll add one more: we should reopen Ellis Island or some version of it, to make the process for legally immigrating easier.
Most of the "processing" occurs before people even come here. The only get on a plane after having Visas, etc already. As for the rest... assylum seekers, those applying to extend their Visas or change to permanent status often wind up in jails, where they are often treated as bad or worse than thieves and murderers.
You're saying the United States makes a practice of throwing people in jail just for trying to legally apply to extend their Visa or get citizenship? Not so!
It depends on how the get here, other circumstances, but yes, that very much does happen. It is not a secret. Most of the reports I have heard/seen go back quite a while, but there were a few just a year or two. I can try to find them if you seriously want to question this.
A lot of people do get by "free", but the problem is there is too little uniformity.
stahrgazer wrote:I agree that employers who employ illegals should be cracked down on; but the illegals themselves should be cracked down on, as well. A two-fold solution, condemning both sides of the crime.
As for the rest of what you were saying (didn't bother quoting the entire thing, it's too long)... immigrants who applied for proper identification will have that identification when stopped and asked to produce some. If they've got a social security card and a driver's license, they'll be able to show it. If they've got a valid green card, they'll be able to show that. It's those who don't have any of those things, that the AZ law is looking for.
And as someone appropriately pointed out, if a group of people is stopped, the driver asked to produce identification, and the driver has no license, he's committed a crime. Now, if the truck is registered appropriately to the name he claims, quite frequently the law allows a couple days to come in and show a valid license, with a minor fine for driving without one. If, however, the truck is not registered to the person, and no one in the vehicle has identification, yes, it's possible the person will be held. Not "prison" (prison usually means a term of more than one year) but in a holding cell, police or county lockup, until someone comes back with the identification.
The law was recently ammended. The
original version allowed police to stop anyone, no need to have any kind of crime involvement at all. And, it certainly was not limited to people driving.
It is still open to abuse. Many areas are notorious for setting up "speed traps" or other kinds of traffic traps. While some reports are no doubt exaggerated, it happens enough that AAA and others have, at times issued warnings to members. Anybody who thinks that race won't be a factor in who gets asked for ID is rather naive. It happens
already.
stahrgazer wrote:Someone stopped and asked to produce a license to a vehicle not registered to the name they claim is how my sister and a few friends, over the years, have gotten their stolen vehicles back.
Iff the law were in Florida, it wouldn't target any specific group; groups known to flock to Florida illegally are frequently Guatemalan, Cuban, Dominican, or Haitian...a mix of cultures, many with latin heritage, but not all. Whatever the predominance is for Arizona is likely what they're seeking. So it's barely "racial profiling." What profiling there is, is done appropriately.
Multiple studies of law enforcement entities show that racial profiling is still very much engrained in how even some well trained officers operate.
stahrgazer wrote:If stopped, they're asked to produce identification, which is far different than assuming they have none and instead merely hauling them off just for being there. Most law-abiding citizens have no issue with producing identification on request, and many legal immigrants are proud to show they're here legally and by choice. This law does not infringe on law-abiding citizens' rights.
Again, the law was changed. However, this argument that "if you are not commiting a crime, why not provide ID" is just wrong. Requiring ordinary citizens to carry ID or face jail is akin to what we expected in the old Soviet Union, or apartheid South Africa, not the U.S. of A.
... ok The wall will be 40 feet tall and made of black steel. At the bottom, about three feet up, there will be a row of buzz saws that is always on. Around face level there will be flame throwers that fire 20 feet out. (all of this will be on the Mexican side of course) on the American side there will Ice cream and candy stores!!!
