Conquer Club

This is what makes you proud to be an American: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/29043/. They aren't violent, they weren't called out by unions, there are even people walking around with canes. Senators and Representatives should start listening to them, not the White House or left wingers.

Night Strike wrote:This is what makes you proud to be an American: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/29043/. They aren't violent, they weren't called out by unions, there are even people walking around with canes. Senators and Representatives should start listening to them, not the White House or left wingers.

... Well, I've no problem with them listening to left-wingers, in fact I'd be upset if they didn't, but not to the exclusion of everybody else.

...

Nobunaga wrote:... Do you (anybody) think you'll see this on NBC tonight, the assault or the Union thugs slipping in the side door?

...

I looked it up on Google News, and as far as I could see, no one was covering it (I did see it on Neil Cavuto, though). The only people who seem to be covering it are the blogs.

It's not the conservatives who are the mobsters. During Thursday night's protests in St. Louis, a man who was selling items protesting the government was attacked by alleged SEIU or other union members who were supporting the health care proposals. Sounds like the liberals are the ones doing the mobbing.

http://patterico.com/2009/08/06/angry-mob-of-racist-extremists-beats-black-man-at-town-hall-meeting/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqpfU_AC7Ls

thegreekdog wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:Having said that, I have never been to a protest where there werent people from the other side heckling you, flipping you off, slighting your intelligence and attacking your character for protesting. Politics, even when following the rules is a bit of a contact sport.

Yes, but have you been to a protest, where, afterwards, it's widely reported that the protestors are morons by not only certain media outlets, but also be politicians. I find it very fascinating that Congresspeople who have not actually read the healthcare bill will fire off on demonstrators as being uninformed or misinformed. Again, not picking sides, just saying...

Ive been to protests that were denounced by the local media yeah, i went to college in a fairly conservative town. As to politicians i cannot say for certain, though I was protesting around the time when president bush made the famous "i dont listen to focus groups" comment. The point is, opposing politicians would be foolish to not denounce most protesting done on controversial issues from teh opposition. Few political issues are so slam dunk in nature that there isnt some type of contempt and especially on the hot button ones like national healthcare, taxation levels, war efforts, gay marriage and union issues, its pretty easy to see why people would denounce protestors for a variety of political aims.


I would like to reiteriate, anyone using physical violence should absolutly be prosecuted, theres no place for that garbage considering the right to assemble should be granted in a very widespread fashion.

Night Strike wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... And here we have somebody allowing entry into the St. Louis Town Hall - but only Union members, denying entry to all the regular folks who wish to attend.

http://www.breitbart.tv/st-louis-town-h ... s-entered/

I believe that's the video where the union workers were actually let in a side, handicapped door rather than waiting in line with everybody else at the main doors. So now we have to stack the meetings with supporters even though 50% of the public disapproves of the current plans and those dissenters show up first in line? I'm glad all these protesters are going to these meetings to make sure their voices are heard. They aren't being represented by ACORN and SEIU........they're representing their own voices.

Actually I think it's 46% with as many approving and the rest undecided, at least from the most recent polls I've seen.

MeDeFe wrote:Actually I think it's 46% with as many approving and the rest undecided, at least from the most recent polls I've seen.

July 22:

The health care reform legislation working its way through Congress has lost support over the past month. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 44% of U.S. voters are at least somewhat in favor of the reform effort while 53% are at least somewhat opposed.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/july_2009/53_now_oppose_congressional_health_care_reform

That's the most recent Rasmussen Poll that I found, but there may be a more recent one.

Night Strike wrote:It's not the conservatives who are the mobsters. During Thursday night's protests in St. Louis, a man who was selling items protesting the government was attacked by alleged SEIU or other union members who were supporting the health care proposals. Sounds like the liberals are the ones doing the mobbing.

http://patterico.com/2009/08/06/angry-mob-of-racist-extremists-beats-black-man-at-town-hall-meeting/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqpfU_AC7Ls

You wanna know how to get Obama? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Obama.

jsholty4690 wrote:You wanna know how to get Obama? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Obama.

I must be hallucinating. You can't have possibly, actually just made an attempt to incite physical violence towards the president of the USA.

Timminz wrote:

jsholty4690 wrote:You wanna know how to get Obama? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Obama.

I must be hallucinating. You can't have possibly, actually just made an attempt to incite physical violence towards the president of the USA.

It was a joke, a bad joke at that. (I changed smile to lol to make sure no one else makes that mistake again).

Earlier I saw Dylan Ratigan interview one of the organizers of some of these protests on MSNBC. He asked him what he thought should be done about the health care situation and all he could come up with was some references to the founding fathers, people being angry, and unfounded links between the mismanagement of the bailouts with all government programs. It was ridiculous. They actually hand out pamphlets to these people, giving them ideas of what to yell at whatever congressman they're freaking out at. They use buzz words and catch phrases, allude to vague threats and enemies, offer no solutions to fixing our embarrassing nightmare of a health care system, and point out who to yell at. The fact that so many people are buying into the fear mongering is cause for genuine concern.

I bet you if you had asked most of the anti-war protesters the same question (except rephrase about Iraq), they would have done the same, spout some nonsense that bloggers and the media had told them. They would have no solutions, just like these people. Heck, I'm against the Health Care Bill (for many reasons, one of which is transparency) and I don't know exactly what we should do.

I know that we need to do something to fix the system, but to do what I don't know. What I know needs to be done is to have both sides sit and try to fix everything (SS, Medicare (ran the same way SS is), the Health Care System, and tort reforms). We need to stop yelling at eachother and try to get something done because if nothing gets done we all lose.

jsholty4690 wrote:I bet you if you had asked most of the anti-war protesters the same question (except rephrase about Iraq), they would have done the same, spout some nonsense that bloggers and the media had told them. They would have no solutions, just like these people. Heck, I'm against the Health Care Bill (for many reasons, one of which is transparency) and I don't know exactly what we should do.

Probably. When people get angry they become easy to manipulate. Some protesters actually have an idea of what the situation is, but a lot of them are just people generally angry.

I also agree with the second part. Level headed discussion trumps knee-jerk semi-mobs.

... Pelosi was right. Look at these Nazis with their swastikas! Damn, I'd be afraid too if those thugs showed up at my town hall.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/ ... swastikas/

...

thegreekdog wrote:Why is it that when liberals protest, it's okay, but when conservatives protest it's fascist?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... tikas.html

Talk about repression of free speech... jeez. God forbid anyone gets into a debate on this issue.

Probably because Liberals have not done much protesting since the 70's. Though, to be honest, I object to any faction that uses these tactics.

This is not about letting their voices be heard or debating anything. It is about denying others the right to have their say, shouting down anyone who dares even halfway disagree and confusing the issue to boot.

jsholty4690 wrote:I bet you if you had asked most of the anti-war protesters the same question (except rephrase about Iraq), they would have done the same, spout some nonsense that bloggers and the media had told them. They would have no solutions, just like these people. Heck, I'm against the Health Care Bill (for many reasons, one of which is transparency) and I don't know exactly what we should do.

Try reading the Bill, for starters. Then contact your Congresspeople with some real alternatives or just what you would like to have happen.

Nice catch Nobunaga, because everyone knows by simple comparison that Mengele's Polish health plan is a good analogy to what Washington politicians are debating right now and that any similarities between the Nazi invasion of Europe and the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq based on fabricated truths was purely circumstantial.

thegreekdog wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:Having said that, I have never been to a protest where there werent people from the other side heckling you, flipping you off, slighting your intelligence and attacking your character for protesting. Politics, even when following the rules is a bit of a contact sport.

Yes, but have you been to a protest, where, afterwards, it's widely reported that the protestors are morons by not only certain media outlets, but also be politicians. I find it very fascinating that Congresspeople who have not actually read the healthcare bill will fire off on demonstrators as being uninformed or misinformed. Again, not picking sides, just saying...

Absolutely, not as a participant, but observed ---

I have seen "prostestors" objecting to logging on the Allegheny Forest who dressed up in Carrot suits. As if being vegetarien had anything to do with logging! Those folks WERE IDIOTS!

I have also seem protests by paid lumber employees protesting an alternative energy technology fair that included booths on legitimate uses for hemp am marihuana, (ranging from durable clothing, to fuel, to foods without THC). The signs declared "say no to drugs". Now, why would they be protesting drugs? Officially, to "protect the community", though organizers of the fair were very careful to ensure no real marihuana was present (ony legal by-products, mostly from China, where hemp production was legal) and the fair was strictly about alternative energy products. Of course, the real reason was the 1 acre of hemp will replace something like 20 acres of timber for paper production. (and those are low estimates).

In THIS case, (health care), there are plenty of idiots on both sides. But, yes, the extreme right IS the group that has begun putting forward all sorts of idiocy ranging from claims that this bill will do away with or limit medicare, that it advocate euthenizing seniors, is putting forward socialized medicine, etc. AND they are shouting down any attempts to even talk about the bill itself, to present real information. ANYONE should ask why they lie, why they refuse debates, why they use those tactics instead of simply and truly presenting their side?

PLAYER57832 wrote:In THIS case, (health care), there are plenty of idiots on both sides. But, yes, the extreme right IS the group that has begun putting forward all sorts of idiocy ranging from claims that this bill will do away with or limit medicare, that it advocate euthenizing seniors, is putting forward socialized medicine, etc. AND they are shouting down any attempts to even talk about the bill itself, to present real information. ANYONE should ask why they lie, why they refuse debates, why they use those tactics instead of simply and truly presenting their side?

One of un-answered questions is... who are these protestors? Is this dissent actually coming from concerned grassroots groups or is it a well funded and organized campaign sponsored by HMOs, insurance corporations and drug companies?

oVo wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:In THIS case, (health care), there are plenty of idiots on both sides. But, yes, the extreme right IS the group that has begun putting forward all sorts of idiocy ranging from claims that this bill will do away with or limit medicare, that it advocate euthenizing seniors, is putting forward socialized medicine, etc. AND they are shouting down any attempts to even talk about the bill itself, to present real information. ANYONE should ask why they lie, why they refuse debates, why they use those tactics instead of simply and truly presenting their side?

One of un-answered questions is... who are these protestors? Is this dissent actually coming from concerned grassroots groups or is it a well funded and organized campaign sponsored by HMOs, insurance corporations and drug companies?

Some of them are from the tea party campaign. Many were bused in from other states. One guy published a blog with instructions for disrupting the talks.

The AARP, (American Association for Retired people, in favor of the bill) among others is now actively trying to get its people out to respond.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:Having said that, I have never been to a protest where there werent people from the other side heckling you, flipping you off, slighting your intelligence and attacking your character for protesting. Politics, even when following the rules is a bit of a contact sport.

Yes, but have you been to a protest, where, afterwards, it's widely reported that the protestors are morons by not only certain media outlets, but also be politicians. I find it very fascinating that Congresspeople who have not actually read the healthcare bill will fire off on demonstrators as being uninformed or misinformed. Again, not picking sides, just saying...

Absolutely, not as a participant, but observed ---

I have seen "prostestors" objecting to logging on the Allegheny Forest who dressed up in Carrot suits.

SAVE THE VEGETABLE PRODUCE!!!!! IF THE CARROTS DIE, THE SQUASH WILL BE NEXT!!!!!

(Though I do agree entirely with your post.)

PLAYER57832 wrote:The AARP, (American Association for Retired people, in favor of the bill) among others is now actively trying to get its people out to respond.

Old folks do like their carrots!

Woodruff wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:Having said that, I have never been to a protest where there werent people from the other side heckling you, flipping you off, slighting your intelligence and attacking your character for protesting. Politics, even when following the rules is a bit of a contact sport.

Yes, but have you been to a protest, where, afterwards, it's widely reported that the protestors are morons by not only certain media outlets, but also be politicians. I find it very fascinating that Congresspeople who have not actually read the healthcare bill will fire off on demonstrators as being uninformed or misinformed. Again, not picking sides, just saying...

Absolutely, not as a participant, but observed ---

I have seen "prostestors" objecting to logging on the Allegheny Forest who dressed up in Carrot suits.

SAVE THE VEGETABLE PRODUCE!!!!! IF THE CARROTS DIE, THE SQUASH WILL BE NEXT!!!!!

(Though I do agree entirely with your post.)

PLAYER57832 wrote:The AARP, (American Association for Retired people, in favor of the bill) among others is now actively trying to get its people out to respond.

Old folks do like their carrots!

I think we have the beginnings of a new movement, far more important than the rest:

SAVE THE CARROTS!

PLAYER57832 wrote:
SAVE THE CARROTS!

Let the rabbits wear glasses.

got tonkaed wrote:Ive been to protests that were denounced by the local media yeah, i went to college in a fairly conservative town. As to politicians i cannot say for certain, though I was protesting around the time when president bush made the famous "i dont listen to focus groups" comment. The point is, opposing politicians would be foolish to not denounce most protesting done on controversial issues from teh opposition. Few political issues are so slam dunk in nature that there isnt some type of contempt and especially on the hot button ones like national healthcare, taxation levels, war efforts, gay marriage and union issues, its pretty easy to see why people would denounce protestors for a variety of political aims.


I would like to reiteriate, anyone using physical violence should absolutly be prosecuted, theres no place for that garbage considering the right to assemble should be granted in a very widespread fashion.

It's not that the senators, representatives, and president and their respective supporters are arguing for their own side. It's the casual way in which they dismiss the opposition, the lack of respectful media coverage of the opposition, and the scare tactics used. And I would say that if this was an anti-war protest during the Bush administration.

Having an intelligent and reasoned conversation would be paramount in my mind. Unfortunately, neither the supporters of the healthcare plan or the dissenters want to have that sort of conversation.

thegreekdog wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:Ive been to protests that were denounced by the local media yeah, i went to college in a fairly conservative town. As to politicians i cannot say for certain, though I was protesting around the time when president bush made the famous "i dont listen to focus groups" comment. The point is, opposing politicians would be foolish to not denounce most protesting done on controversial issues from teh opposition. Few political issues are so slam dunk in nature that there isnt some type of contempt and especially on the hot button ones like national healthcare, taxation levels, war efforts, gay marriage and union issues, its pretty easy to see why people would denounce protestors for a variety of political aims.


I would like to reiteriate, anyone using physical violence should absolutly be prosecuted, theres no place for that garbage considering the right to assemble should be granted in a very widespread fashion.

It's not that the senators, representatives, and president and their respective supporters are arguing for their own side. It's the casual way in which they dismiss the opposition, the lack of respectful media coverage of the opposition, and the scare tactics used. And I would say that if this was an anti-war protest during the Bush administration.

I am not sure what media you are listening to, but I have been hearing plenty on BOTH sides.. maybe you need to listen to NPR.