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Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:05 pm
by captain.crazy
danfrank wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
demonfork wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:are you a believer in the one true God?


Well I wouldn't be much of a truther if i didn't.


How is that exactly (he says, preparing for a good laugh)?


The new world order is about population control (genocide) and human control over others (slavery.)

The constitution of the united states conflicts directly with this, since it is a direct affirmation of the soverignty that YHWH planned for each and every one of us. We are all born to exercise free will, not serve as slaves to any master or society.


The New world order is nothing new it has been around for decades. It takes time to transform what was into what is and then what will be. Obviously the main issues that face us here in the states now are Public Health Care (rationed) .The Deficit and Deficit Spending. Crushing the Dollar and Bankrupting the treasury are the goals of today. Thus the push to invest in gold and buy the working mans gold. Which in itself is already a form of global currency.


The NWO is really the OWO (old world order) that has a new wrapping. It is the same blanket philosophy that it ever was. Subject human beings to a single dominant class. Failure to recognize that this was prophesied in the Holy bible, and stay focused on the petty hand outs of Barrack H. Obama, and you will see how quickly and awfully Satan will rule over the whole of the earth. This is the end times.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:17 am
by Woodruff
captain.crazy wrote:
danfrank wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
demonfork wrote:Well I wouldn't be much of a truther if i didn't.


How is that exactly (he says, preparing for a good laugh)?


The new world order is about population control (genocide) and human control over others (slavery.)

The constitution of the united states conflicts directly with this, since it is a direct affirmation of the soverignty that YHWH planned for each and every one of us. We are all born to exercise free will, not serve as slaves to any master or society.


The New world order is nothing new it has been around for decades. It takes time to transform what was into what is and then what will be. Obviously the main issues that face us here in the states now are Public Health Care (rationed) .The Deficit and Deficit Spending. Crushing the Dollar and Bankrupting the treasury are the goals of today. Thus the push to invest in gold and buy the working mans gold. Which in itself is already a form of global currency.


The NWO is really the OWO (old world order) that has a new wrapping. It is the same blanket philosophy that it ever was. Subject human beings to a single dominant class. Failure to recognize that this was prophesied in the Holy bible, and stay focused on the petty hand outs of Barrack H. Obama, and you will see how quickly and awfully Satan will rule over the whole of the earth. This is the end times.


And with that, your moniker here in Conquer Club now becomes painfully obvious.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:54 am
by Skittles!
I lol at this.

The only thing repressing the human race is religion.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:28 am
by pimpdave
thegreekdog wrote:I think the point is that everyone knew and acknowledged that Bush was a "puppet." On the other hand, President Obama ran his campaign on being the antithesis of Bush in that he would work for the American people. I've yet to see that President Obama and President Bush are different in any substantive way with respect to their policies.


Image

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:29 am
by captain.crazy
Skittles! wrote:I lol at this.

The only thing repressing the human race is religion.


you are exactly right. religion is very oppressive. I have learned more about God apart from church than in church. Churches tend to paint themselves into a corner. God cannot.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:35 am
by jbrettlip
captain.crazy wrote:
Skittles! wrote:I lol at this.

The only thing repressing the human race is religion.


you are exactly right. religion is very oppressive. I have learned more about God apart from church than in church. Churches tend to paint themselves into a corner. God cannot.


Wait, I thought GOd could do anything!??! Now I guess I can do something He can't. Now where is that water bottle, I got some wine making to try!!

PS God, this is only meant as a joke. Don't smote me. I still got some living to do.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:40 am
by muy_thaiguy
Skittles! wrote:I lol at this.

The only thing repressing the human race is religion.

I lol at this.

The only thing repressing humanity, is :o humanity!

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:45 am
by Simon Viavant
To state the obvious, religion is a human trait.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:28 pm
by Frigidus
Simon Viavant wrote:To state the obvious, religion is a human trait.


Considering that some consider religion to be a description of reality, it's still a statement worth making.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:51 pm
by jonesthecurl
captain.crazy wrote:
Skittles! wrote:I lol at this.

The only thing repressing the human race is religion.


you are exactly right. religion is very oppressive. I have learned more about God apart from church than in church. Churches tend to paint themselves into a corner. God cannot.


So there's something God can't do?
I thought he was impotent, I mean omnipotent?

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:53 pm
by daddy1gringo
While we're on the subject, here's something I posted a long time ago on another thread. I think you'll find it interesting.
We’re dealing with the usual questions, “If God is omnipotent why is there evil in the world?” and “If God is omniscient how can we have free will?”

The problem is that the words "omnipotent" and "omniscient" are not in the Bible. They are English technical, theological words from Latin parts. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek.

There are 2 Hebrew terms translated with "almighty": "El Shaddai", and "YHWH Tsawba-ot"

The second is usually translated "The Lord of Hosts" "YHWH" is God's personal name, which comes from "I Am". (Moses:”but the people will ask ‘what is His name.’” God: “I Am that I Am. Tell them ‘I Am has sent me’”) "Tsawba" is a host, great multitude of people, especially an army. The idea is a great King who has great armies at his disposal.

As for the first, "El" simply means "God", or "a god". "Shaddai" is interesting. Its root is from "bulge" and the literal meaning is "mighty" in the sense of "bulging with muscles." It is related to the word for "mountain" with its sense of strength and majesty. It is also related to the word for the female breast, which has the power to provide all our needs in that stage of our lives. (including comfort)

The Greek word is a little more difficult: "panto-krator." The "panto" does mean "all (things)" but the "krator" just means "ruler" emphasizing the sense of one who has the authority and power to make rules and enforce them.

None of these terms is inconsistent with saying that there are things that God cannot do. The difficulties are only semantic problems based on the Latin terms, or on English phrases like, “all-powerful” or "can do anything," which are not in the Bible. For example, he cannot just erase all evils from the world since that would violate his commitment to giving us free will, his love that gives us that freedom, and his justice that says one reaps what one sows. For another example, he could not just forgive the guilty without the sacrifice at the Cross.

Here’s something I posted in an earlier thread
daddy1gringo wrote:Let me give you an analogy.

A girl, a college student, is in traffic court for a speeding ticket. She is pronounced guilty and has to pay a $250 fine. Then something unusual happens. The judge stands up, removes his robe, (don't worry, he has a suit underneath) walks to the clerk and pays the fine. Then he resumes the bench and the robe. You see, the judge is her father. As her father, he knows that his college-student daughter can't afford the fine, and knowing her, he believes that she really won't do it again, so as her father, he has decided that she should not pay the fine. But as a judge, he would be corrupt if he just let her off because she was his daughter. The only solution would be for him to require the payment, but to pay it himself.

That's why the cross was necessary. I could go into the meanings of the Hebrew terms that are translated "God Almighty", but suffice it to say they don't give us semantic problems like the old "Could God make a rock that he can't lift?" There are things God can't do; He can't violate his nature, which includes justice and love. So with regard to a human race which he loves and wants to be in loving relationship with him now and forever, but which had used the free will with which he had gifted them to turn away from him into selfishness, he had a problem. Yes, God had a problem. He could not violate his love that would do anything to have us with him, nor his justice.

He also can't die. Aside from being God, he is a spirit, not flesh. He had to take off the robe, inhabit flesh, become human, and pay the penalty himself. The violence that happened to Jesus at the cross is the measure of God's intense, passionate hatred for sin, and of his equally intense, passionate love for me, and for you.


I believe everything that the Bible says of God. That doesn't mean I buy everything some theologian says of Him.

As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

Picture this: Years ago I used to do a family budget on a large ledger sheet. If I hit a shortfall, sometimes the best place to tweak the money out was weeks or months earlier. I then had to go and change all the totals by hand. It was a real pain. When PC’s became common and I got one (yes, I am an old fart), I discovered Microsoft Excell. What a joy. I make my change in September and, bbbbbbbbip! All the totals get changed, up to the negative in December.

God is sitting outside of time, looking at it like a computer spreadsheet, budgeted ‘till the end of time. I have free will, and make a choice in one of the cells. God, of course, has access to all the cells, in the columns that represent past, present, and future from my position in the grid. If my choice, being contrary to His will, results in an end he doesn’t want, he can make a change in any cell that doesn’t conflict with his nature to do, as those mentioned earlier concerning “omnipotence’ , to put things back on track, but he can leave whatever he wants to be affected by my choice.

So here’s a story based on that image that I told my nephew once. God creates His spreadsheet, ending up with man living in fellowship with Him forever, his purpose in creating us. The devil goes into the garden and plugs in sinfulness. That ruins the end result. God plugs in the law, to instruct us. That fixes the end. Satan plugs in rebellion against the law. Messed up again. God plugs in prophets, to bring His word alive, and communicate His love and desire for us along with the law. Fixed again. Satan gets really mad and somewhere before Cain and Abel, plugs into human nature a tendency that when someone tells us the truth, reveals our sinfulness or lives a better example, we want to kill him. The people kill the prophets and the end is messed up again.

God says, “You just made your last mistake,” and in the middle of history, plugs in Jesus. God uses the crowning act of rebelliousness and ungodliness on our part to be the ultimate move by which He changes everything and cancels the debt of sin. Check and mate.

Why do I believe? Who wouldn’t love someone like that?[/quote]

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:57 pm
by PLAYER57832
Good post!

That said, why is it that all these threads wind up with "is there God"... :?

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:12 pm
by StiffMittens
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:37 pm
by captain.crazy
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.


Have you ever known the creator or are you simply talking about something that you know absolutely nothing about... again.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:21 pm
by StiffMittens
captain.crazy wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.


Have you ever known the creator or are you simply talking about something that you know absolutely nothing about... again.

Have YOU ever known the creator? And how do you mean the word "know"? In the biblical sense?

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:31 pm
by captain.crazy
StiffMittens wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.


Have you ever known the creator or are you simply talking about something that you know absolutely nothing about... again.

Have YOU ever known the creator? And how do you mean the word "know"? In the biblical sense?


Have you ever believed and felt the presence of God in your life. Have you ever experienced divine intervntion... Have you ever spoken honestly to God, and heard His answers... Or do you simply base all of your existance on the temporal?

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:45 pm
by jonesthecurl
daddy1gringo wrote:While we're on the subject, here's something I posted a long time ago on another thread. I think you'll find it interesting.


(I've deleted what you said to save people wading through it)

Your analogy is interesting.
Here's an interesting question: who made Satan?and why?

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:46 pm
by daddy1gringo
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.
Your answer shows that you just don't get it as far as the concept of "outside of time." Try thinking outside of the little box. Outside of time, the concept of "already" has no meaning. (see spreadsheet analogy)

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:47 pm
by StiffMittens
captain.crazy wrote:Have you ever believed...

Yes, when I was toddler and believed what I was told. Back then, I also believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, Dracula, werewolves, Frankenstein's monster, etc.
captain.crazy wrote:... and felt the presence of God in your life. Have you ever experienced divine intervntion... Have you ever spoken honestly to God, and heard His answers...

Not since I stopped dropping acid back in the 80s.
captain.crazy wrote:Or do you simply base all of your existance on the temporal?

Not sure what you mean by "base all of your existence", but I would say that I base my beliefs (and therefore my actions) on my observations of the temporal and my thoughts about anything I have ever perceived (which includes other's opinions of that which is eternal as well as my own musings over that which might be eternal). I am not an atheist. But I do not believe that any religious scripture (that I am aware of) is an accurate description of the nature of the universe.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:50 pm
by captain.crazy
StiffMittens wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:Have you ever believed...

Yes, when I was toddler and believed what I was told. Back then, I also believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, Dracula, werewolves, Frankenstein's monster, etc.
captain.crazy wrote:... and felt the presence of God in your life. Have you ever experienced divine intervntion... Have you ever spoken honestly to God, and heard His answers...

Not since I stopped dropping acid back in the 80s.
captain.crazy wrote:Or do you simply base all of your existance on the temporal?

Not sure what you mean by "base all of your existence", but I would say that I base my beliefs (and therefore my actions) on my observations of the temporal and my thoughts about anything I have ever perceived (which includes other's opinions of that which is eternal as well as my own musings over that which might be eternal). I am not an atheist. But I do not believe that any religious scripture (that I am aware of) is an accurate description of the nature of the universe.


Please share you spiritual beliefs.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:58 pm
by StiffMittens
daddy1gringo wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.
Your answer shows that you just don't get it as far as the concept of "outside of time." Try thinking outside of the little box. Outside of time, the concept of "already" has no meaning. (see spreadsheet analogy)

I tell you I'd be more interested in having this discussion with you about this if you weren't such a condescending prick about it. The word "already" is meaningful in your argument but not in my counter-argument? You said "the future already IS for Him", which means he's already dealt with it. He's done.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:02 pm
by captain.crazy
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.
Your answer shows that you just don't get it as far as the concept of "outside of time." Try thinking outside of the little box. Outside of time, the concept of "already" has no meaning. (see spreadsheet analogy)

I tell you I'd be more interested in having this discussion with you about this if you weren't such a condescending prick about it. The word "already" is meaningful in your argument but not in my counter-argument? You said "the future already IS for Him", which means he's already dealt with it. He's done.


That is Ironic, coming from you.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:03 pm
by StiffMittens
captain.crazy wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:Have you ever believed...

Yes, when I was toddler and believed what I was told. Back then, I also believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, Dracula, werewolves, Frankenstein's monster, etc.
captain.crazy wrote:... and felt the presence of God in your life. Have you ever experienced divine intervntion... Have you ever spoken honestly to God, and heard His answers...

Not since I stopped dropping acid back in the 80s.
captain.crazy wrote:Or do you simply base all of your existance on the temporal?

Not sure what you mean by "base all of your existence", but I would say that I base my beliefs (and therefore my actions) on my observations of the temporal and my thoughts about anything I have ever perceived (which includes other's opinions of that which is eternal as well as my own musings over that which might be eternal). I am not an atheist. But I do not believe that any religious scripture (that I am aware of) is an accurate description of the nature of the universe.


Please share you spiritual beliefs.

I think I just said that I don't really have any beliefs that could be described as spiritual in nature.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:06 pm
by StiffMittens
captain.crazy wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
daddy1gringo wrote:As far as Omniscience vs. free will, There really is no conflict. Remember Crazyanglican's interesting distinction between "omniscience" and "precognizance." God knows everything that IS. He being outside of time, the future already IS for Him, but it IS NOT yet for us.

I think the problem with the Dr. Manhattan line of reasoning is that if everything (past, present, and future) IS for God then he cannot change anything or already has changed everything. In either case, He's done. God is dead.
Your answer shows that you just don't get it as far as the concept of "outside of time." Try thinking outside of the little box. Outside of time, the concept of "already" has no meaning. (see spreadsheet analogy)

I tell you I'd be more interested in having this discussion with you about this if you weren't such a condescending prick about it. The word "already" is meaningful in your argument but not in my counter-argument? You said "the future already IS for Him", which means he's already dealt with it. He's done.


That is Ironic, coming from you.

Go back and read that thread and see exactly who started the condescending tone.

Re: The Obama Deception

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:08 pm
by captain.crazy
StiffMittens wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:
StiffMittens wrote:
captain.crazy wrote:Have you ever believed...

Yes, when I was toddler and believed what I was told. Back then, I also believed in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, Dracula, werewolves, Frankenstein's monster, etc.
captain.crazy wrote:... and felt the presence of God in your life. Have you ever experienced divine intervntion... Have you ever spoken honestly to God, and heard His answers...

Not since I stopped dropping acid back in the 80s.
captain.crazy wrote:Or do you simply base all of your existance on the temporal?

Not sure what you mean by "base all of your existence", but I would say that I base my beliefs (and therefore my actions) on my observations of the temporal and my thoughts about anything I have ever perceived (which includes other's opinions of that which is eternal as well as my own musings over that which might be eternal). I am not an atheist. But I do not believe that any religious scripture (that I am aware of) is an accurate description of the nature of the universe.


Please share you spiritual beliefs.

I think I just said that I don't really have any beliefs that could be described as spiritual in nature.


That isn't what you said at all... you said that you aren't an athiest, but that you dont believe that any religious scripture (that you are aware of) is an acurate description of the nature of the universe. I will ask you again to share your spiritual beliefs, but will also ask you to expand on your thoughts on the nature of the universe, since I think that you may not have spiritual beliefs...