Conquer Club

Zemljanin wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:It is not that dificult to realize that if you took out the cards, you take out some of the luck.

That's not true. This way, as BaldAdonis said, you just put all eggs in one basket.

In game with cards, dice matter and cards matter. In no cards game, only dice matter. But they matter more than dice and cards together in a card game. So, by removing cards, you're actually inflating luck factor...

(I explained it once in a greater detail, don't know whether I'll succeed to find that post)

Aradhus wrote:Luck swings both ways, you can get good or bad. In card games, good luck with cards, and good luck with dice, greatly increases your chances of winning. Or you can get good luck with cards, and bad luck with dice, vice versa etc. In no cards, excluding the drop, all you have is the luck of the die, and that swing from good to bad, and everything in between. Increasing the value of the dice, because cards aren't involved. The game revolves around the dice, which increase the swing factor from good luck to bad luck, because you don't have the luck of the cards to affect it. If the value of the dice is increased, then so is the value of the luck of the dice.

porkenbeans wrote:

Aradhus wrote:Luck swings both ways, you can get good or bad. In card games, good luck with cards, and good luck with dice, greatly increases your chances of winning. Or you can get good luck with cards, and bad luck with dice, vice versa etc. In no cards, excluding the drop, all you have is the luck of the die, and that swing from good to bad, and everything in between. Increasing the value of the dice, because cards aren't involved. The game revolves around the dice, which increase the swing factor from good luck to bad luck, because you don't have the luck of the cards to affect it. If the value of the dice is increased, then so is the value of the luck of the dice.

Your math is not correct.
Dice = 100% luck.
Cards = 100% luck.
Drop = 100% luck.

Buy removing the cards, you do not increase the luck of the other two. They are random occurrences and their luck value will always remain the same. There importance is increased however. But so is the skill value. This increase in importance or occurrence is a wash. so you are left with less overall occurrence of luck in the game.

Aradhus wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:

Aradhus wrote:Luck swings both ways, you can get good or bad. In card games, good luck with cards, and good luck with dice, greatly increases your chances of winning. Or you can get good luck with cards, and bad luck with dice, vice versa etc. In no cards, excluding the drop, all you have is the luck of the die, and that swing from good to bad, and everything in between. Increasing the value of the dice, because cards aren't involved. The game revolves around the dice, which increase the swing factor from good luck to bad luck, because you don't have the luck of the cards to affect it. If the value of the dice is increased, then so is the value of the luck of the dice.

Your math is not correct.
Dice = 100% luck.
Cards = 100% luck.
Drop = 100% luck.

Buy removing the cards, you do not increase the luck of the other two. They are random occurrences and their luck value will always remain the same. There importance is increased however. But so is the skill value. This increase in importance or occurrence is a wash. so you are left with less overall occurrence of luck in the game.

Your logic is(as usual) wrong.

Why does the skill value increase, because you say so? Because you can't argue against the obvious conclusion that increased value of dice equates increased effect of the luck of the dice. When players join no cards games does their skill level automatcally increase, and decrease when they go back to a card game? Just because you say so is a horrendous argument, but its exactly what I expect from you.

bridge2far wrote:dice


who goes first
making it sequential eliminates the advantage of playing first. some may argue that it then turns the game into a speed match and who can make the most moves in the last few seconds, from what i've seen and played myself this can be overcome with strategy.

john9blue wrote:I'd like you to post ways that you can get around having to deal with the huge luck factor in this game. I am perpetually screwed over by the dice, cards, turn order, drop, you name it (for the sake of brevity, I won't use "intensity cubes" or "spoils" or any of the new terms), and I know I'm not the only one who wants to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. I have found that the following game modes require a great deal of luck:

No Cards: Bad luck with the drop and dice.

Flat Rate: Bad luck with the drop and cards.

Escalating: Bad luck with cards, which can determine the entire outcome of a game.

Foggy: Probably better than Sunny, but people will let someone else grow too huge until they can't be stopped. The drop matters too much. Then you get people who attack you constantly even though someone else is clearly winning.

Sunny: On the occasion that I am the one growing huge, people will team up on me.

Sequential: Obviously, the player going first is going to have an advantage, and is going to get their cards first, and so on. Since I am a freemium, I'd like to take my turn more than once every few days, too.

2 Player Games: Having to beat someone who gets Australia on Round 1 is not my idea of a good time. Bad drop luck.

Assassin Games: Umm... no. Whoever gets the noob suicider target wins.

I have tried the following solutions with little success:

Playing High Ranked Players Only: I don't want to be reduced to this. It would become boring, and besides, I enjoy tournaments.

Playing 3-8 Player Games: I do, almost all of the time, and I lose about 10% of my games because I get an early lead and everyone else teams up and pounds me into oblivion.

Playing Adjacent Games: These games take almost forever to fill up, because almost nobody plays adjacent, and I can see why... it's very irritating sometimes.

Play Team Games: This has the same problems as 2-4 player games (bad drop, being ganged up upon, etc.), and I feel guilty whenever my partner suffers due to my bad luck.

Play Private Games/Join A Clan: Probably a good solution, but it would get boring if the group was too small. I'm open for suggestions.

Play Freestyle Games: I do, whenever I can. However, there are not many available, the last person to join gets a slight advantage by going first, and most tournaments are sequential anyway.

Play *Insert Map Here*: I am not aware of which maps require the least luck, and would like to hear suggestions.

If you're going to call me a whiner or a loser, or tell me to leave the site, or say "tl;dr", then don't respond. I realize that some of this seems contradictory (e.g. Sunny and Foggy both having a huge luck factor), but what I'm looking for is either a combination of game types or a clever solution that you've found that reduces the luck factor in this game. Thanks for your help.

para wrote:crap, i had this whole awesome example of how more luck factors increases overall luck and when i pushed submit it turns out that i had been logged out.

bah

but the golf analogy works too.



also to remove the luck of who goes first, it doesnt neccessarily need to be speed, except for the fact that some people cant always be online, and then all you really need is a real-time match(like one arranged in the chat)

otherwise i would agree with your assesment on the best way to reduce luck, i probably would play that way if i had the time to be on enough for freestyle.

demonfork wrote:

john9blue wrote:I'd like you to post ways that you can get around having to deal with the huge luck factor in this game. I am perpetually screwed over by the dice, cards, turn order, drop, you name it (for the sake of brevity, I won't use "intensity cubes" or "spoils" or any of the new terms), and I know I'm not the only one who wants to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. I have found that the following game modes require a great deal of luck:

No Cards: Bad luck with the drop and dice.

Flat Rate: Bad luck with the drop and cards.

Escalating: Bad luck with cards, which can determine the entire outcome of a game.

Foggy: Probably better than Sunny, but people will let someone else grow too huge until they can't be stopped. The drop matters too much. Then you get people who attack you constantly even though someone else is clearly winning.

Sunny: On the occasion that I am the one growing huge, people will team up on me.

Sequential: Obviously, the player going first is going to have an advantage, and is going to get their cards first, and so on. Since I am a freemium, I'd like to take my turn more than once every few days, too.

2 Player Games: Having to beat someone who gets Australia on Round 1 is not my idea of a good time. Bad drop luck.

Assassin Games: Umm... no. Whoever gets the noob suicider target wins.

I have tried the following solutions with little success:

Playing High Ranked Players Only: I don't want to be reduced to this. It would become boring, and besides, I enjoy tournaments.

Playing 3-8 Player Games: I do, almost all of the time, and I lose about 10% of my games because I get an early lead and everyone else teams up and pounds me into oblivion.

Playing Adjacent Games: These games take almost forever to fill up, because almost nobody plays adjacent, and I can see why... it's very irritating sometimes.

Play Team Games: This has the same problems as 2-4 player games (bad drop, being ganged up upon, etc.), and I feel guilty whenever my partner suffers due to my bad luck.

Play Private Games/Join A Clan: Probably a good solution, but it would get boring if the group was too small. I'm open for suggestions.

Play Freestyle Games: I do, whenever I can. However, there are not many available, the last person to join gets a slight advantage by going first, and most tournaments are sequential anyway.

Play *Insert Map Here*: I am not aware of which maps require the least luck, and would like to hear suggestions.

If you're going to call me a whiner or a loser, or tell me to leave the site, or say "tl;dr", then don't respond. I realize that some of this seems contradictory (e.g. Sunny and Foggy both having a huge luck factor), but what I'm looking for is either a combination of game types or a clever solution that you've found that reduces the luck factor in this game. Thanks for your help.

This is why all high rankers are farmers, if you want to make it past major, you are forced to only play games that you know you can win, you must eliminate the luck factor.

para wrote:

Zemljanin wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:It is not that dificult to realize that if you took out the cards, you take out some of the luck.

That's not true. This way, as BaldAdonis said, you just put all eggs in one basket.

In game with cards, dice matter and cards matter. In no cards game, only dice matter. But they matter more than dice and cards together in a card game. So, by removing cards, you're actually inflating luck factor...

(I explained it once in a greater detail, don't know whether I'll succeed to find that post)

If you could explain it again it would be much apreciated.

I fail to see how the luck of dice increases when no cards are taken away.

para wrote:crap, i had this whole awesome example of how more luck factors increases overall luck and when i pushed submit it turns out that i had been logged out.

Jeff Hardy wrote:

prismsaber wrote:I find that team games minimize the luck factor the most

yeah

also, if you play bigger maps like world 2.1 then dice wont change the game as much

john9blue wrote:I'd like you to post ways that you can get around having to deal with the huge luck factor in this game. I am perpetually screwed over by the dice, cards, turn order, drop, you name it (for the sake of brevity, I won't use "intensity cubes" or "spoils" or any of the new terms), and I know I'm not the only one who wants to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. I have found that the following game modes require a great deal of luck:

No Cards: Bad luck with the drop and dice.

Flat Rate: Bad luck with the drop and cards.

Escalating: Bad luck with cards, which can determine the entire outcome of a game.

Foggy: Probably better than Sunny, but people will let someone else grow too huge until they can't be stopped. The drop matters too much. Then you get people who attack you constantly even though someone else is clearly winning.

Sunny: On the occasion that I am the one growing huge, people will team up on me.

Sequential: Obviously, the player going first is going to have an advantage, and is going to get their cards first, and so on. Since I am a freemium, I'd like to take my turn more than once every few days, too.

2 Player Games: Having to beat someone who gets Australia on Round 1 is not my idea of a good time. Bad drop luck.

Assassin Games: Umm... no. Whoever gets the noob suicider target wins.

I have tried the following solutions with little success:

Playing High Ranked Players Only: I don't want to be reduced to this. It would become boring, and besides, I enjoy tournaments.

Playing 3-8 Player Games: I do, almost all of the time, and I lose about 10% of my games because I get an early lead and everyone else teams up and pounds me into oblivion.

Playing Adjacent Games: These games take almost forever to fill up, because almost nobody plays adjacent, and I can see why... it's very irritating sometimes.

Play Team Games: This has the same problems as 2-4 player games (bad drop, being ganged up upon, etc.), and I feel guilty whenever my partner suffers due to my bad luck.

Play Private Games/Join A Clan: Probably a good solution, but it would get boring if the group was too small. I'm open for suggestions.

Play Freestyle Games: I do, whenever I can. However, there are not many available, the last person to join gets a slight advantage by going first, and most tournaments are sequential anyway.

Play *Insert Map Here*: I am not aware of which maps require the least luck, and would like to hear suggestions.

If you're going to call me a whiner or a loser, or tell me to leave the site, or say "tl;dr", then don't respond. I realize that some of this seems contradictory (e.g. Sunny and Foggy both having a huge luck factor), but what I'm looking for is either a combination of game types or a clever solution that you've found that reduces the luck factor in this game. Thanks for your help.

baggins994 wrote:

john9blue wrote:I'd like you to post ways that you can get around having to deal with the huge luck factor in this game. I am perpetually screwed over by the dice, cards, turn order, drop, you name it (for the sake of brevity, I won't use "intensity cubes" or "spoils" or any of the new terms), and I know I'm not the only one who wants to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. I have found that the following game modes require a great deal of luck:

No Cards: Bad luck with the drop and dice.

Flat Rate: Bad luck with the drop and cards.

Escalating: Bad luck with cards, which can determine the entire outcome of a game.

Foggy: Probably better than Sunny, but people will let someone else grow too huge until they can't be stopped. The drop matters too much. Then you get people who attack you constantly even though someone else is clearly winning.

Sunny: On the occasion that I am the one growing huge, people will team up on me.

Sequential: Obviously, the player going first is going to have an advantage, and is going to get their cards first, and so on. Since I am a freemium, I'd like to take my turn more than once every few days, too.

2 Player Games: Having to beat someone who gets Australia on Round 1 is not my idea of a good time. Bad drop luck.

Assassin Games: Umm... no. Whoever gets the noob suicider target wins.

I have tried the following solutions with little success:

Playing High Ranked Players Only: I don't want to be reduced to this. It would become boring, and besides, I enjoy tournaments.

Playing 3-8 Player Games: I do, almost all of the time, and I lose about 10% of my games because I get an early lead and everyone else teams up and pounds me into oblivion.

Playing Adjacent Games: These games take almost forever to fill up, because almost nobody plays adjacent, and I can see why... it's very irritating sometimes.

Play Team Games: This has the same problems as 2-4 player games (bad drop, being ganged up upon, etc.), and I feel guilty whenever my partner suffers due to my bad luck.

Play Private Games/Join A Clan: Probably a good solution, but it would get boring if the group was too small. I'm open for suggestions.

Play Freestyle Games: I do, whenever I can. However, there are not many available, the last person to join gets a slight advantage by going first, and most tournaments are sequential anyway.

Play *Insert Map Here*: I am not aware of which maps require the least luck, and would like to hear suggestions.

If you're going to call me a whiner or a loser, or tell me to leave the site, or say "tl;dr", then don't respond. I realize that some of this seems contradictory (e.g. Sunny and Foggy both having a huge luck factor), but what I'm looking for is either a combination of game types or a clever solution that you've found that reduces the luck factor in this game. Thanks for your help.

Have you ever played real RISK? It's exactly the same, lost of luck:
Shuffle cards for the drop (Random)
And Bonuses (Random)
Roll dice to attack (Random)
Most of the rest of your things have to do with players, teammates etc.:
What you do affects what they do, it's not luck, it's skill.

porkenbeans wrote:In the original Risk, Players take turns picking territories. So luck of the drop is eliminated. It would make for a good option here. I am for anything that reduces the luck factor and allows more for skill, to determine the game.