English lady jailed for calling a teddy bear " mohamed&

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:17 pm

RobinJ wrote:I thought it was very harsh to imprison here for such a menial "crime". On the other hand, it was silly on her part to let the bear be called Mohammed. We all know how zealous the Muslims are. Remember the time a British newspaper made cartoons about him and there was hell to pay?

I think you mean Danish...

The1exile · Post by **The1exile** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:20 pm

Personally I loved the Danish cartoons. "Jyllands Posten's cartoonists are a bunch of reactionary provocateurs"

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:21 pm

STUD24 wrote:The punishment will be 40 lashings or a few months jail yet to be decided.

However the funny thing is it was the children who named the bear muhammad not the teacher. She innocently went along with the name that the children gave it not knowing that it was offensive nor direspectful.

Even worse, I believe that if it were a male in her position none of this would have happened.

Lets not get silly... She has been sentenced and it was 14 or 15 days in jail. She technically could have been sentenced to 40 lashes, but that was the more extreme punishment. Basically she broke a law and got what was pretty much the lower end of the scale. I think its more to make an example than as a real attempt to enact revenge or anything.

Nobunaga · Post by **Nobunaga** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:58 pm

... I guess she didn't soak up much of the local culture. I know the kid(s) named the thing, but she was foolish for letting it pass. She should have told the class, "Now, that's a lovely name, boys and girls, but we have to try to understand, appreciate and abide by the local barbarous customs. Perhaps a name like... Bobby?"

... The Islamists are not big on tolerance. You've probably all heard about the girl who was gang-raped in Saudi Arabia and was then sentenced to 90 stikes of the lash as punishment (for being with a male who was not her direct relative)... (this was not a foreign woman but a Saudi).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7096814.stm

... She was only sentenced half that initially, but the number was doubled as punishment for "bringing in the media".

...

silvanricky · Post by **silvanricky** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:05 pm

It was a bullshit decision. She didn't harm anybody. Should she have been more aware of the cultural mistake of allowing her class to call the teddy bear Mohammed, yes. But I don't think she meant to insult anyone. She probably thought it was cute that they wanted to call it that.

d.gishman · Post by **d.gishman** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:11 pm

To people saying "she should have followed the law" or something like that: this punishment was based on sharia law that is quite open to interpretation, basically whatever the heck the government feels like. There is no specific law saying that you should not name a toy after the prophet's name. Then how can that punishment be justified? You can argue that one must follow oppressive and barbaric laws if it is part of a country's customs, but I personally think that it is dumb to blindly follow a law in a country if it is clearly unfair.

trk1994 · Post by **trk1994** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:27 pm

i don't think she should be punished. it is a common name in that part of the world. the same as Jesus in the hispanic community.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:45 pm

d.gishman wrote:To people saying "she should have followed the law" or something like that: this punishment was based on sharia law that is quite open to interpretation, basically whatever the heck the government feels like. There is no specific law saying that you should not name a toy after the prophet's name. Then how can that punishment be justified? You can argue that one must follow oppressive and barbaric laws if it is part of a country's customs, but I personally think that it is dumb to blindly follow a law in a country if it is clearly unfair.

All law is open to interpretation. If you ever here in the news of a 'test case' or a 'precedent' being set then thats our legal system interpreting the law in a certain way.

In certain Islamic countries it is perfectly acceptable, and indeed very much legal, to beat your wife. Indeed, in this country it was the same way until not so many decades ago. If a Muslim from Sudan came to teach in a British school, and then got arrested because he hit his wife in public, what do you think people would be saying back home? 'Thats ridiculous... He obviously wasn't going to kill her... Its legal here, it seems a silly law... To punish him for that is ridiculous!' I know it is a more extreme example, but do you see my point?

There ARE specific laws relating to using the Prophets name in as idolatry. That could be interpreted to refer to toy, just as to a statue. I know it is interpetation, but as I said earlier, all law is interpretation.

Anyway, she got what was basically the lightest sentence. It was just a warning, an example. She DIDN'T get 40 lashes or months in prison.

Nobunaga · Post by **Nobunaga** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:01 pm

d.gishman wrote:... I personally think that it is dumb to blindly follow a law in a country if it is clearly unfair.

... So... maybe I should stop paying taxes?

...

life-saver · Post by **life-saver** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:07 pm

Nobunaga wrote:... I guess she didn't soak up much of the local culture. I know the kid(s) named the thing, but she was foolish for letting it pass. She should have told the class, "Now, that's a lovely name, boys and girls, but we have to try to understand, appreciate and abide by the local barbarous customs. Perhaps a name like... Bobby?"

I have to agree with Nobunaga here... If what Guiscard says is right (I think it is, I heard the same thing on a radio station;), the teacher could've easily stepped out of the room to talk with the boy and tell him why the name should be changed... Perhaps she was thinking of the student in the classroom when they named the bear?

silvanricky · Post by **silvanricky** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:05 pm

Why the hell would any woman in her right mind want to convert to Islam?

Nobunaga · Post by **Nobunaga** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:29 pm

silvanricky wrote:Why the hell would any woman in her right mind want to convert to Islam?

... Low self esteem.

... But seriously, not a lot of thought goes into religious conversion I think (well, generally).

comic boy · Post by **comic boy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:51 am

Yes it was crazy but thats what happens when you have religious rather than secular law :cry:

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:04 am

Guiscard wrote:
graeme89 wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
life-saver wrote:I believe this is right, the class voted on the bear to be called Mohammed. And that the most popular boy (maybe popular name...) was named Mohammed.

Yep. And in the UK the class could vote to call it 'Child Fucker Pedo King' but it would still be illegal here...

Not saying its a law that I especially agree with, but it is one that she broke. As a teacher she is responsible for what happens in her class.

I think what actually happened was that the boy won the competition to name the bear and named it after himself.

evout
I think it was an innocent mistake and not an insult against Islam. And what about the childrens parents ' the devout islamists whonever violate the laws of Islam but enforce it on foreignors ???
No way

An innocent mistake can still be considered a crime. As I've said before, it may seem barbaric (it certainly does to me) but she is living in another country and must abide by their laws. Whether or not you think it was a genuine 'insult' is by the by. She broke the law.

I don't give a f*ck. Backwards misogynistic motherfuckers. The headline in Metro yesterday was some fanatical sudanese lot calling for her death. Honestly, f*ck them all. Strutting cockfaces bleating about 'islam is peace' one minute and then this the next. I hope allah fists them all to death.

zarro · Post by **zarro** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:45 am

http://www.churchofgaming.com

The fath we can all enjoy

KoE_Sirius · Post by **KoE_Sirius** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:15 am

The Teachers class voted they call the bear that.The teacher just carried out the childrens wishes..In a Christian country,if a teacher called a Bear Jesus,we wouldn't care.
I think they should rename all bears in the UK Mo for short

comic boy · Post by **comic boy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:35 am

KoE_Sirius wrote:The Teachers class voted they call the bear that.The teacher just carried out the childrens wishes..In a Christian country,if a teacher called a Bear Jesus,we wouldn't care.
I think they should rename all bears in the UK Mo for short

I dont suppose the average Sudanese cares much either,but the religious fanatics do and they happen to be in control !

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:46 am

comic boy wrote:
KoE_Sirius wrote:The Teachers class voted they call the bear that.The teacher just carried out the childrens wishes..In a Christian country,if a teacher called a Bear Jesus,we wouldn't care.
I think they should rename all bears in the UK Mo for short

I dont suppose the average Sudanese cares much either,but the religious fanatics do and they happen to be in control !

The absolute bastards. We should round them up, stick them in a cage with the Westboro Baptists and see who kills who first. And then we can beat the winners to death.

d.gishman · Post by **d.gishman** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:15 am

Guiscard wrote:In certain Islamic countries it is perfectly acceptable, and indeed very much legal, to beat your wife.

The fact that it is legal in certain countries doesn't mean it's right. Honor killings are fine in some countries... let's all defend that important custom! The thing about universal human rights is that the fundamental rights of human beings come before ridiculous local laws.

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:29 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/story/0 ... 76,00.html

10,000 nutjobs now protesting in Khartoum and calling for her execution. For letting kids name a teddy bear after themselves. Instead of David Miliband summonign the ambassador and beign angry, why can't we just napalm them? That would be 10,000 fewer fundamentalist fuckheads. This is a golden opportunity and we just stand idly by. Unvelievable.

DAZMCFC · Post by **DAZMCFC** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:44 pm

you go for it LP^. he`s taking on Norse`s mantle. :lol:

to Graeme, they should of called it Kris Boyd, a true teddy bear. :lol:

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:16 pm

PMs sent.

Keep the flames OUT of this thread or I will lock it down faster than you can say Mohammad. :evil:

diddle · Post by **diddle** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:18 pm

wicked wrote:PMs sent.

Keep the flames OUT of this thread or I will lock it down faster than you can say Mohammad.

Mohammed.

*Looks around*

Not locked. Eat shit wicked.

spurgistan · Post by **spurgistan** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:40 pm

On a bit of a side note, I like that near the end of the article "[T]wo senior British lawmakers" are revealed to be members of the House of Lords. Is the House of Lords more relevant than I consider it, or is this basically the gov saying they're not going to push the Sudanese hard? Not saying they should, local sovereignty would appear to apply here, somebody living in an Islamic country should have figured out by know that you shouldn't name stuffed animals after the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). I'm assuming that in 15 days she'll be out, and probably not in Sudan much longer.

diddle · Post by **diddle** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:41 pm

Would I be right in saying that this is one of the worlds most controversial Teddy Bear's?