terrorist attack in france

[2dimes]

I seriously hope this sort of thing does not become more common in France.

[Lord Arioch]

Or anywhere else for that matter! Its a black day for freedom of speech!

[mrswdk]

Not that carrying out a massacre is a condonable response to someone else being offensive, but a little common sense on the part of this magazine wouldn't have gone amiss. It should be obvious to a man living under police protection that continuing to post picture after picture of Mohammed in order to troll extremists is pretty dumb, and now he has taken innocent colleagues and police officers down with him.

Didn't Obama personally ring that 'burn a Koran' pastor in Florida and tell him to stop being a jackass?

[JBlombier]

mrswdk, I agree with you. It was the first thing I thought when I heard this news. Couldn't they tone it down a bit, because they knew this was coming (they didn't up their security for nothing)?

Still, at this particular moment, when all the horror-images are fresh on tv, we should focus on freedom of speech and the extreme exaggeration on something as small as a comic. Let's save the "they-asked-for-it-debate" for later, because it's not appropriate right now.

- JBlombier

[betiko]

Not that carrying out a massacre is a condonable response to someone else being offensive, but a little common sense on the part of this magazine wouldn't have gone amiss. It should be obvious to a man living under police protection that continuing to post picture after picture of Mohammed in order to troll extremists is pretty dumb, and now he has taken innocent colleagues and police officers down with him.

Didn't Obama personally ring that 'burn a Koran' pastor in Florida and tell him to stop being a jackass?

This has absolutely nothing to do with a pastor asking to burn the koran and I know you re smart enough to make the difference.
You are comparing humour with a idiot asking to burn the koran... Do you even know this magazine? It exists since the 60s (actually it was called hara-kiri back then), with a very regressive humour. It has always been quite blasphematory to any religion. There was no particular targetting towards islam, but radical islamists were a subject among others.
These guys are basically trolls... Back in 2006 when they heard that there were some drawings that were done in denmark that were supposed to be censored by extremist that were threatening... Well they had some balls and published them.
Charb said that he would rather die than not being allowed to laugh about anything after starting being under police protection. He died for his idea of freedom of speech. We shall not let people tell us what we are allowed and what we are not allowed to laugh about. Stop pulling your pants down. You live in a country where freedom of speech does not exist, I don t think it s a good thing.
France sends a big f*ck you to those terrorists, and they should get ready to find what they have created... Legions of cartoonists from around the world who will never give up their freedom, whatever the price.

[GoranZ]

wow and they just killed a woman police officer this morning... and another officer got injured. We don't know for now if there is a link, one of the guys got caught but the shooter is still on the run (but identified)

yesterday, the 2 police officers shot were the guy who was in charge of Charb's security (the head of Charlie Hebdo who had a police escort since 2011 and the burning of charlie hebdo's offices) and a random cop patrolling in the street. That cop patrolling in the street was an arab, so they had even more reasons to shoot him because he wasseen as a traitor. This just proves that the french arab community is also targeted, and probably "soft muslims" in general.

So the 2 guys from Reims are the brothers and the guy from Charleville Mézières was the brother in law, but he was attending classes yesterday, there were witnesses so he was definitely not participating in the attack.
7 people from the brother's entourage are under arrest and being interrogated.

According to St.Peter there is a solution... here it is


The real problem with Islamic fundamentalist is probably best described in this picture...



But France(and West in particularly) also has ally(Saudi Arabia) that is directly fueling Islamic fundamentalism on scale unseen since the crusades. So you guys have internal problem with who you chose as friend and who you chose as enemy.

[AndyDufresne]

that is directly fueling Islamic fundamentalism on scale unseen since the crusades.

Tell me more about this scale unseen since the crusades.


--Andy

[GoranZ]

that is directly fueling Islamic fundamentalism on scale unseen since the crusades.

Tell me more about this scale unseen since the crusades.


--Andy

Back then European christians were fundamentalists... starting with the pope

[AndyDufresne]

Tell more about the scale from then and to now, silly!


--Andy

[DoomYoshi]

mrswdk still hasn't come to grips with the fact that Uighur muslims are going to overthrow his beloved CCP. You had better stop them now, mrswdk. If you give them an inch (say stop printing comics of Mohammed) they will take a mile (overthrow your entire government).

[JBlombier]

Please stop derailing the thread, because it's serious enough to have a real discussion about.
I'm not sure what words to choose, but I do know I'm not looking for a witty response here. We have plenty of threads for that.

Typing that, I realize that maybe the above statement is perhaps exactly what Charlie Hebdo did in its entire existence. Leaving me in a painful dilemma.

Maybe my personal problem, is that I don't know how to place this act of terror. I work on an islamic primary school, yet I'm not a muslim, so I have to explain to the kids in my class that this happened by muslims, but not in the spirit of how most muslims experience their religion. It's close to impossible to really comprehend how an 8 year old reacts to news like this, but I guarantee you that the young muslim kids are frightened. Even in The Netherlands, let alone in France. They haven't done anything wrong, but they still feel that 'the world' is watching them even more than it already did. All the integration processes that have occurred for numerous years, can be undone by incidents like this. Perhaps that is what scares me most.

[DoomYoshi]

Please stop derailing the thread, because it's serious enough to have a real discussion about.
I'm not sure what words to choose, but I do know I'm not looking for a witty response here. We have plenty of threads for that.

Typing that, I realize that maybe the above statement is perhaps exactly what Charlie Hebdo did in its entire existence. Leaving me in a painful dilemma.

Maybe my personal problem, is that I don't know how to place this act of terror. I work on an islamic primary school, yet I'm not a muslim, so I have to explain to the kids in my class that this happened by muslims, but not in the spirit of how most muslims experience their religion. It's close to impossible to really comprehend how an 8 year old reacts to news like this, but I guarantee you that the young muslim kids are frightened. Even in The Netherlands, let alone in France. They haven't done anything wrong, but they still feel that 'the world' is watching them even more than it already did. All the integration processes that have occurred for numerous years, can be undone by incidents like this. Perhaps that is what scares me most.

If they want to be integrated, they should come to North America. European countries are based on, and are named after racial groups. They should stay racially (and religiously) pure.

[JBlombier]

If they want to be integrated, they should come to North America. European countries are based on, and are named after racial groups. They should stay racially (and religiously) pure.

I can only hope you are trolling me. I have a tendency to believe posts like this to be the true opinion of the one writing it, so I'll ignore it for my own well-being.

[betiko]

Please stop derailing the thread, because it's serious enough to have a real discussion about.
I'm not sure what words to choose, but I do know I'm not looking for a witty response here. We have plenty of threads for that.

Typing that, I realize that maybe the above statement is perhaps exactly what Charlie Hebdo did in its entire existence. Leaving me in a painful dilemma.

Maybe my personal problem, is that I don't know how to place this act of terror. I work on an islamic primary school, yet I'm not a muslim, so I have to explain to the kids in my class that this happened by muslims, but not in the spirit of how most muslims experience their religion. It's close to impossible to really comprehend how an 8 year old reacts to news like this, but I guarantee you that the young muslim kids are frightened. Even in The Netherlands, let alone in France. They haven't done anything wrong, but they still feel that 'the world' is watching them even more than it already did. All the integration processes that have occurred for numerous years, can be undone by incidents like this. Perhaps that is what scares me most.

Well you can simply tell those kids that there was an arab guy working for charlie hebdo that got killed with the other 5 cartoonists, and that an arab cop that was just patrolling in the neighborhood got shot too. So out of the 12 victims you have 2 arabs, most likely muslims, that got killed by those mad men.
Should we feel responsible for the crusades? I really don't. muslims in general shouldn't feel responsible for al quaeda, daesh, boko haram and all this crap (I m not sure you guys call isis daesh? It s just not a state, so we don t call it isis here).
I m kind of surprised that all this crap isn t making more muslims become agnostics.

[mrswdk]

This has absolutely nothing to do with a pastor asking to burn the koran and I know you re smart enough to make the difference. You are comparing humour with a idiot asking to burn the koran... Do you even know this magazine? It exists since the 60s (actually it was called hara-kiri back then), with a very regressive humour. It has always been quite blasphematory to any religion. There was no particular targetting towards islam, but radical islamists were a subject among others.

I'm aware the magazine didn't target Islam specifically. The similarity is that both were doing something that was offensive to Muslims and bound to draw a negative reaction.

These guys are basically trolls... Back in 2006 when they heard that there were some drawings that were done in denmark that were supposed to be censored by extremist that were threatening... Well they had some balls and published them.

Personally, I don't think that was balls (he was counting on the police to step in and rescue him) or commendable (as I said, a bunch of innocent people are now dead because of this).

Charb said that he would rather die than not being allowed to laugh about anything after starting being under police protection. He died for his idea of freedom of speech. We shall not let people tell us what we are allowed and what we are not allowed to laugh about. Stop pulling your pants down. You live in a country where freedom of speech does not exist, I don t think it s a good thing.
France sends a big f*ck you to those terrorists, and they should get ready to find what they have created... Legions of cartoonists from around the world who will never give up their freedom, whatever the price.

Nowhere has truly unrestricted speech. What is and isn't permitted just differs from country to country. Funny that you mention Charlie Hebdo's original form, Hari Kari - didn't that get shut down for an offensive cover relating to a fatal nightclub fire and de Gaulle's death? I thought you said France had freedom of speech?

[Phatscotty]

Holy crap.... 12 dead (so far?) including 2 very well known french cartoonists from the hardcore cartoon digest "charlie hebdo". This is a bit like our Mad magazine, but much more political.
The digest's offices had already been burned by islamists a few years ago when there were the prophet muhamad's caricature published by that journal (done by some Danish cartoonist if you guys remember, that was a huge deal back then)

Anyway... Cabu has been murdered, he was the guy doing the front page cartoon for "Le Monde" since 30 or 40 years....

Some people in this world have real mental problems. Why don't they just go/stay in daesh and live their peaceful radical islamist life without caring of others?

Cuz, this is what it looks like when they go there and begin to take over. Before they know it, their leader is giving a speech about how Islam is a religion of peace everytime there is a terrorist attack and Muslims are suddenly allowed to pray in school just when they finished weeding Christianity out of everything (actually is happening in America). Soon they're bending over backwards to accept that it will be illegal in the future to criticize Islam or it's prophet, and maybe some criticism will even take the blame for riots and embassy takeovers in country's on the other side of the world? And doing that officially elevates Islam over everything else. And they'll do it because 'eh, it's not worth the hassle, who cares anyways right? We just don't want them getting all riled up anymore'

It's 'yo momma' tactics. they throw a major fuss and kill people whenever someone criticizes 'their momma', and we don't say a word or even care when it's about 'our momma'... it's makes their religion respected and your religion/whatever else ya got a total joke. Uber toleance/uber multi-culturalism...they will tolerate themselves right into oppression.

Betiko, do you know what the French birthrate is compared to the immigrant birthrate? Won't be long before certain TV shows are banned and any church/synagouge/other is burned to the ground.

[saxitoxin]

Holy crap.... 12 dead (so far?) including 2 very well known french cartoonists from the hardcore cartoon digest "charlie hebdo". This is a bit like our Mad magazine, but much more political.
The digest's offices had already been burned by islamists a few years ago when there were the prophet muhamad's caricature published by that journal (done by some Danish cartoonist if you guys remember, that was a huge deal back then)

Anyway... Cabu has been murdered, he was the guy doing the front page cartoon for "Le Monde" since 30 or 40 years....

Some people in this world have real mental problems. Why don't they just go/stay in daesh and live their peaceful radical islamist life without caring of others?

Cuz, this is what it looks like when they go there and begin to take over.

Over the last one or one thousand years, I suspect French troops and weapons in the Maghreb have killed many orders of magnitude more Muslims than Muslim troops and weapons in France. If this is a takeover, it's the most bumbling takeover anyone's ever planned.

[Phatscotty]

Sure they have. And now the ancestors of those killed are all like 'Hey, France is weak a fug. They will pay us to overpopulate! Let's bang their brains out!' Collectively/Governmentally, I'm not so sure France has the Gaul to stand up for itself. But then again, perhaps it's time for a Great Re-Awakening of Christianity in France. Don't count out the newest generation.

[saxitoxin]

Sure they have. And now the ancestors of those killed are all like 'Hey, France is weak a fug. They will pay us to overpopulate! Let's bang their brains out!' Collectively/Governmentally, I'm not so sure France has the Gaul to stand up for itself. But then again, perhaps it's time for a Great Re-Awakening of Christianity in France. Don't count out the newest generation.

Considering the sheer number of deaths France has inflicted in Mali and Libya in the last few dozen months, one can only imagine what kind of body count you're thinking France after a Christian reawakening would serve up.

France indiscrimanetely dropped over 2,000,000 kilograms of ordnance on Tripoli in 2011. It had to absorb maybe 1 kilogram of fire yesterday (how much do a few dozen bullets weigh).

[betiko]

Sure they have. And now the ancestors of those killed are all like 'Hey, France is weak a fug. They will pay us to overpopulate! Let's bang their brains out!' Collectively/Governmentally, I'm not so sure France has the Gaul to stand up for itself. But then again, perhaps it's time for a Great Re-Awakening of Christianity in France. Don't count out the newest generation.

France isn t a christian country. It s a country of laicity. We don t accept proselitsm of any kind and we are dead firm about this. What happened isn t ever going to stop us from saying "yo mama" to them. The vast majority of french muslims understand this.
We will still draw mahomet if we feel like it, we will still negate the veil in public places including public schools, we will still consider islam with the same respect/parody as we do for any other religion. Just find anyone thinking that what was done was justified... This is a disgrace for the "normal" muslim community worldwide.

[betiko]

Sure they have. And now the ancestors of those killed are all like 'Hey, France is weak a fug. They will pay us to overpopulate! Let's bang their brains out!' Collectively/Governmentally, I'm not so sure France has the Gaul to stand up for itself. But then again, perhaps it's time for a Great Re-Awakening of Christianity in France. Don't count out the newest generation.

Considering the sheer number of deaths France has inflicted in Mali and Libya in the last few dozen months, one can only imagine what kind of body count you're thinking France after a Christian reawakening would serve up.

France indiscrimanetely dropped over 2,000,000 kilograms of ordnance on Tripoli in 2011. It had to absorb maybe 1 kilogram of fire yesterday (how much do a few dozen bullets weigh).

Instead of talking brainless shit, tell me how many death they prevented with those interventions.

[saxitoxin]

Sure they have. And now the ancestors of those killed are all like 'Hey, France is weak a fug. They will pay us to overpopulate! Let's bang their brains out!' Collectively/Governmentally, I'm not so sure France has the Gaul to stand up for itself. But then again, perhaps it's time for a Great Re-Awakening of Christianity in France. Don't count out the newest generation.

Considering the sheer number of deaths France has inflicted in Mali and Libya in the last few dozen months, one can only imagine what kind of body count you're thinking France after a Christian reawakening would serve up.

France indiscrimanetely dropped over 2,000,000 kilograms of ordnance on Tripoli in 2011. It had to absorb maybe 1 kilogram of fire yesterday (how much do a few dozen bullets weigh).

Instead of talking brainless shit, tell me how many death they prevented with those interventions.

France has spent the last 50 years undermining secular Muslim governments that have been the only thing protecting civilization from the Salafist phenomenon. It has attacked them (Egypt, Libya, Iraq), it has funded their enemies (as in Syria), it has made their domestic political situations untenable (like by giving Israel the A-Bomb), it has criticized and embargoed them (as in Chechnya).

French interventionist policy destroyed the buffer that existed between it and the Salafist phenomenon. As a result, instead of this battle being fought in the desert, it will be fought in the streets of Paris. Saif warned Sarkozy what he had done in 2011: "you people have no idea what you have just unleashed."

France's chickens are coming home to roost.

[betiko]

These guys are basically trolls... Back in 2006 when they heard that there were some drawings that were done in denmark that were supposed to be censored by extremist that were threatening... Well they had some balls and published them.

Personally, I don't think that was balls (he was counting on the police to step in and rescue him) or commendable (as I said, a bunch of innocent people are now dead because of this).

These guys are anarchists and don't count on the police. Maybe you consider it's having more balls to enter with kalashnikovs and rocket launchers in that journal to go kill some harmless cartoonists. All the people from this journal were totally in the same state of mind, ad did not fear the consequences of using their freedom of speech in a free country because a bunch of idiots were sending death threats.
Political cartoonists all around the world are often the most corrosive criticism towards society, and they are one of the best example of freedom of mind and courage. Sure, it's much more courageous to be a political cartoonist in a totalitarst regime. But these people are heroes. They will not let anyone pressure them to shut up.

[betiko]

Sure they have. And now the ancestors of those killed are all like 'Hey, France is weak a fug. They will pay us to overpopulate! Let's bang their brains out!' Collectively/Governmentally, I'm not so sure France has the Gaul to stand up for itself. But then again, perhaps it's time for a Great Re-Awakening of Christianity in France. Don't count out the newest generation.

Considering the sheer number of deaths France has inflicted in Mali and Libya in the last few dozen months, one can only imagine what kind of body count you're thinking France after a Christian reawakening would serve up.

France indiscrimanetely dropped over 2,000,000 kilograms of ordnance on Tripoli in 2011. It had to absorb maybe 1 kilogram of fire yesterday (how much do a few dozen bullets weigh).

Instead of talking brainless shit, tell me how many death they prevented with those interventions.

France has spent the last 50 years undermining secular Muslim governments that have been the only thing protecting civilization from the Salafist phenomenon. It has attacked them (Egypt, Libya, Iraq), it has funded their enemies (as in Syria), it has made their domestic political situations untenable (like by giving Israel the A-Bomb), it has criticized and embargoed them (as in Chechnya).

French interventionist policy destroyed the buffer that existed between it and the Salafist phenomenon. As a result, instead of this battle being fought in the desert, it will be fought in the streets of Paris. Saif warned Sarkozy what he had done in 2011: "you people have no idea what you have just unleashed."

France's chickens are coming home to roost.

yeah so as in your first example in mali, i guess the best thing was just to let the massacre happen and tell the french malian descendants/malian immigrants living here that we didn't see anything.
And battle fought in the streets of paris? lol, you are a mad man. Do you even know how many terrorist attacks have been dismantled on the french soil since the last 15 years by our secret services? Or better said... how many worked??? All these guys are known by the secret services. Sure, you can't have eyes on all of them all of the time, but the secret services knew who these guys were immediately (of course the ID in the car is bullshit). Nothing going on here. You are not going to change anything because of a mosquito bite.

the 2 brothers are right now surrounded in a printing factory where they are holding 1 hostage. My bet is that both terrorists+the hostage will die in the upcomming assault.... maybe they will save the hostage... but I hope they won't catch those guys alive. A good little bullet in the head won't be undeserved. they want to die in martyrs...

[saxitoxin]

yeah so as in your first example in mali, i guess the best thing was just to let the massacre happen and tell the french malian descendants/malian immigrants living here that we didn't see anything.

There would have been no massacre in Mali had France not attacked Libya. The situation in Mali collapsed because the truce Col. Qaddafi brokered between the Tuaregs and Bamako disintegrated when he entered immortality.

France has been stumbling from one disaster to the next for decades. And now it's too late for France to change direction in its disastrous foreign policy. There are no more barriers left holding back the Salafists; France, America and the UK (and all of their muppets in Europe) have removed the last of them.

And battle fought in the streets of paris? lol, you are a mad man. Do you even know how many terrorist attacks have been dismantled on the french soil since the last 15 years by our secret services? Or better said... how many worked??? All these guys are known by the secret services. Sure, you can't have eyes on all of them all of the time, but the secret services knew who these guys were immediately (of course the ID in the car is bullshit). Nothing going on here. You are not going to change anything because of a mosquito bite.

the 2 brothers are right now surrounded in a printing factory where they are holding 1 hostage. My bet is that both terrorists+the hostage will die in the upcomming assault.... maybe they will save the hostage... but I hope they won't catch those guys alive. A good little bullet in the head won't be undeserved. they want to die in martyrs...

Celebrating that you killed 2 terrorists but absorbed 20 casualties? Is that what France considers a victory these days? Petain is rolling over in his grave.

The Iraqi, Libyan, Syrian, and Russian-Chechen armies would wipe-out hundreds or thousands of Salafists in a sitting ... while France was standing in the corner yelling about human rights. But it seems your interest in Salafist human rights has softened now that they're operating in your country.