The Roman Empire *Page 11* [Vacation]

[Kaplowitz]

The colors are a lot better, but i think that the borders/attack lines near the water are hard to see in some spots.

[KEYOGI]

Nice work Guiscard, the darker colours really make a difference. I'm not such a fan of the faded/washed out look to some of them though. Personally I think the map would look better if they were more consistent.

Sea connections could perhaps use a slight shadow or outline to them as they clash with the water colour. You could always make the water slightly darker, but I really like the colour it is at the moment.

Perhaps tone down the effect you have on the text. I like the look of it, but it creates unnecessary strain on the eye, particularly Carthago.

I like the second option for Roma, with the neutral territory. I think a bonus of two would actually create some intense gameplay since there's only a one step territory inbetween for a lot continents. Perhaps a connection between Hispania and Corsica-Sardinia would be good too?

I do wonder if there needs to be an extra bonus for Carthago though. I understand the significance of it, I'm just not sure I like the idea and it crowds the legend.

Keep up the good work.

[Ruben Cassar]

I know you love Malta and all, but I really do think it is a little too small to add as an independent territory. Due to the nature of the map I've been forced to combine some territories, for example Sicily and Southern Italy, and I really don't think adding an extra territory just for Malta is justified. There are many islands which I have not included as individual territories which could be. I'll certainly add it graphically though.

As for Hibernia, the historical jury is out, as it were (there is evidence for and against), and I've read up a bit on this recently. I think I'll get rid of it, though, as it seems this question is going to keep coming up.

The colours can certainly be chopped and changed, but I'd rather keep the shades as I believe it breaks up the block of colour you have otherwise. it worked pretty well in my Mongol map, and I'd like to achieve something similar here

. Is it just the orange and green you have a problem distinguishing between? I'm going to swap the colours around anyway, so which would be best to have next to one another?

Your idea about the three cities sounds like a good one to investigate. Perhaps +2 for Roma, +1 for Carthago and +1 Byzantium and +5 for all three? Anyway, we'll deal with that later...

Okay I guess Melita is too small to be considered as a region even though it is strategically placed. But do add it graphically please.

About Hibernia...you might as well keep it in the game for the sake of gameplay. Btw can you give me some links about this evidence that you mentioned because I would be very interested in reading it.

About the colours...keep the different shades but make them less different from each other than they are right now. In your Mongol map the difference between shades of the similar colour is less noticeable and that is what it makes it great. I have a big problem with orange and green next to each other. The other colours are fine. I would try to use a black or a darker colour for the borders instead of the white one you are using now.

[Ruben Cassar]

An idea about the some bonus cities...you could link Roma, Carthago and Byzantium using ports. They were 3 of the most important cities in the Roman Empire.

The idea is good but the facts are not good.

Byzantium/Constantinople did not become that important until after the division of the empire.
Carthago however could be among the three if you only look at the first centuries after Caesar.

I assume from the map that this is the huge ancient empire and not just the early republic or the later greek-macedonian eastern empire of byzantium..

POPULATION OF CITIES:
In the Principate, the five leading cities were ROME, ALEXANDRIA, ANTIOCH, EPHESUS, and CARTHAGE. In 100 A.D., Rome boasted a population of over 1,000,000 permanent residents; Alexandria was perhaps between 500,000 and 750,000. The cities of Antioch, Ephesus and Carthage had populations on the order of 350,000 to 500,000 residents.

http://www.tulane.edu/~august/H303/hand ... lation.htm

Definitely include Alexandria among the cities and loose Byzantium/Constantinople or the map will be historically ridiculous..

I do not agree with you. Constantinus reunified the empire and Constantinopolis (Byzantium) was important at that stage and the empire was not divided in two at that time.

Of course it depends on the age in which Guiscard is setting this map. However even for gameplay reasons Byzantium would be better placed as it is distant from Roma and Carthago. I think that Guiscard should add Alexandria as well and maybe create a 4 or 5 city bonus. The bonus could become effective when you hold 3 cities with an extra bonus if one of the 3 cities is Roma.

Example:

Carthago + Byzantium + Alexandria = +2
Roma + Carthago + Alexandria = +3

Edit: I was not aware of the neutral option. Perhaps you could give Roma a higher bonus (perhaps +3) if it's held on its own. The bonus could then increase exponentially if you own more than 3 major cities. Btw can you also select the number of neutral units in Rome with the new system? Maybe put 5 neutral units on Roma instead of 3 to make it harder to conquer?

[Ruben Cassar]

Guiscard would you consider renaming the map Imperium Romanum? I think that sounds better than just Roma.

I also noticed you have two Upper Germania. Lose the English and rename one Germania Inferior and the other Germania Superior. Better stick with Latin.

I would also consider using Roman numbers for the bonuses, you know...I, II, III, IV, V, etc.

I am also not sure about some of the Latin names you have used. The British ones are the names of tribes more than regions. I do not have much free time at the moment to check them but use this link it could prove helpful:
http://www.unrv.com/roman-empire-map.php

Edit: You also have another spelling mistake...it should be Cyrenaica

[dandominator]

The white outline is hard on the eyes

[d.gishman]

Some of the text looks blurry or not sharp enough

I actually miss the brighter colours, all the maps are pretty dark on CC, it would have been nicer for a brighter map

[unriggable]

Okay a few issues:
- You have two 'upper germania' s
- Don't make a bonus for holding the cities alone. Make it in conjunction with something.
- Why is italia 2? It has four borders.
- Is krete part of Aegaeum? I can't tell.
- Problem with this map is the fact that it isn't rotating like the world maps ie a player can hold half the map without having too many borders.
- I can't tell if venetia is part of italia or Germania. Make is either redder or pinker.
- Make the white border not as prominent.

Sorry if I'm a hard-on with this stuff. Your map looks great despite what I jsut said.

[pancakemix]

One of the Germania's is Germania Magna, but I agree, the labeling is a little unclear.

[ParadiceCity9]

this looks really good Guiscard...i'm assuming the names are way off center for the army spaces?
and I'm not really a fan of the color of the lands

[ParadiceCity9]

and sorry if this has been mentioned...but in your key it says Roma 2 Carthago 1 > 4...why no Byzantium?...unless that wasnt a city but im pretty sure it was...but i dno i kinda constantly stare into nothing during history class

maybe you should just have 1 per city...then 4 all together

[muy_thaiguy]

Great map! But Ireland was never a part of the Roman Empire, yet you include it but not, say, the rest of the Germanic tribes areas or Sarmations area in the East?

[KEYOGI]

Ireland is there as dead territory, it's not actually part of the map.

[boberz]

i agree the white is too hard why not make it a very light cream just to take the edge off it, i think the legen looks a little too modern like neon lights

[buckeye1]

it is way to bright . when you are doing the final copy, remember to make darker colors.

[jnd94]

I actually like the bright colors, it makes the map feel more special. I think that the map might lose interst if you go to boring regular colors like most maps. Otherwise, I love the idea, and its a great first draft!

[Skittles!]

Did either of you check the 2nd page?

Looking good Guiscard, but as others said, if you own half the map, then there is not many borders to defend by.

[jnd94]

Did either of you check the 2nd page?

Looking good Guiscard, but as others said, if you own half the map, then there is not many borders to defend by.

I did, but I still thought that there would be people that still thought it was too bright.

[Gwalchmai]

Just a few words on territory names.

I agree with Ruben about the two Germanias and Cyrenaicia. Bithynia is also spelled incorrectly, Rhaetia might perhaps be more properly Raetia, and Judea, Iudea if you're going to follow the Latin properly.

I'm not too sure about Alpina. Looks like it is a shortened form of Gallia Alpina, which could be correct at some point in the empire I suppose but seems to stretch a bit far west. That whole territory corresponds pretty much exactly to the area known towards the end of the Republic as Provincia though. Don't know how long it lasted into the Empire so Narbonensis could be an alternative. I'm also not familiar with Belgia as a place name, although it might have been that at some point. Perhaps Belgica might be better - shortened form of Gallia Belgica.

In your key, it looks as if Achae is meant to be Achaia, although I could be wrong. If so that refers properly during the Empire to the part of Greece that runs up to Macedonia on your map. I can't think what that continent would be better off being named at the moment though.

Not sure what to do about Britain. The simplest thing would be to have Wales seperate and call it Cambria, then split England in two, calling the bottom half Brittania Superior and the top half Brittania Inferior. Technically I think Brittania Superior included Wales but it shouldn't matter too much. The only problem with that split is that it ruins your Lugdunensis - Donbunni link but since you've only got one route in at the moment I don't think that will matter too much.

I would also be tempted to go for Byzantium over Carthage and just make it a sort of generic Empire map. It puts a bit more space between them and seems to make more sense to the importance of the two bonus giving cities.

[Guiscard]

Guiscard would you consider renaming the map Imperium Romanum? I think that sounds better than just Roma.

I also noticed you have two Upper Germania. Lose the English and rename one Germania Inferior and the other Germania Superior. Better stick with Latin.

I would also consider using Roman numbers for the bonuses, you know...I, II, III, IV, V, etc.

I am also not sure about some of the Latin names you have used. The British ones are the names of tribes more than regions. I do not have much free time at the moment to check them but use this link it could prove helpful:
http://www.unrv.com/roman-empire-map.php

Edit: You also have another spelling mistake...it should be Cyrenaica

That's the source I have used, Ruben, but there isn't any individual territory information for Britain as it was never officially divided up by the Romans. I couldn't find better names, but if you can link me to a source or something I'd be happy to change them.

I will certainly rename it Imperium Romanum. I had meant to in the last update but forgot.

As for the bonuses, I'm not too sure about the numerals as we do have a lot of young memebers who may not know what they mean (especially for IV and V). We'll have to discuss this further but it certainly is something to consider.

[Guiscard]

Just a few words on territory names.

I agree with Ruben about the two Germanias and Cyrenaicia. Bithynia is also spelled incorrectly, Rhaetia might perhaps be more properly Raetia, and Judea, Iudea if you're going to follow the Latin properly.

I'm not too sure about Alpina. Looks like it is a shortened form of Gallia Alpina, which could be correct at some point in the empire I suppose but seems to stretch a bit far west. That whole territory corresponds pretty much exactly to the area known towards the end of the Republic as Provincia though. Don't know how long it lasted into the Empire so Narbonensis could be an alternative. I'm also not familiar with Belgia as a place name, although it might have been that at some point. Perhaps Belgica might be better - shortened form of Gallia Belgica.

In your key, it looks as if Achae is meant to be Achaia, although I could be wrong. If so that refers properly during the Empire to the part of Greece that runs up to Macedonia on your map. I can't think what that continent would be better off being named at the moment though.

Not sure what to do about Britain. The simplest thing would be to have Wales seperate and call it Cambria, then split England in two, calling the bottom half Brittania Superior and the top half Brittania Inferior. Technically I think Brittania Superior included Wales but it shouldn't matter too much. The only problem with that split is that it ruins your Lugdunensis - Donbunni link but since you've only got one route in at the moment I don't think that will matter too much.

I would also be tempted to go for Byzantium over Carthage and just make it a sort of generic Empire map. It puts a bit more space between them and seems to make more sense to the importance of the two bonus giving cities.

Thanks for this. It seems like you know your stuff so I'll make these changes in the next update

[Guiscard]

Okay a few issues:
- You have two 'upper germania' s
- Don't make a bonus for holding the cities alone. Make it in conjunction with something.
- Why is italia 2? It has four borders.
- Is krete part of Aegaeum? I can't tell.
- Problem with this map is the fact that it isn't rotating like the world maps ie a player can hold half the map without having too many borders.
- I can't tell if venetia is part of italia or Germania. Make is either redder or pinker.
- Make the white border not as prominent.

Sorry if I'm a hard-on with this stuff. Your map looks great despite what I jsut said.

-Dealing with that next update.

-The bonuses are completely under discussion, but I'm looking at making them start off neutral so as to avoid the first turn advantage, or at making them conditional for holding a continent... Or both.

-Italia is 2 because it contains Roma, which has another bonus of 2 so that makes 4 altogether... And it actually has 5 borders, so I think it does need boosting up actually. Maybe +3 for the cont and +2 for Rome, or +2 and +3

-Yes it is, but this will be obvious when army numbers are on the map. There will be no number over Krete so no-one will mistake it.

-Venetia is part of Italia, but yes it is too similar a colour. I was waiting for more feedback on colours before I switch them around but it will be moved.

-A few people have said this so I'll darken them a bit... I still want to keep white borders as a whole, though, as black really darkens the map and also makes it really all to similar to all the other maps out there.

[Steel Panzer]

yay fair knight guiscard! but i still have a problem with the colors seem to brigth for my eyes

[Ruben Cassar]

Hey Guiscard, you did not tell me what you think about the bonus options I listed.

I posted 3 posts one after another and you seemed to respond to the last one only. Maybe you missed the previous two?

I would like to hear what you think about the other comments as well. Thanks.

Edit: Also note this: In Ancient Roman times the name of the province of Achaea (yours is spelt wrongly) was given to the whole of Greece, except Thessaly, Epirus, and Acarnania.

[Guiscard]

Hey Guiscard, you did not tell me what you think about the bonus options I listed.

I posted 3 posts one after another and you seemed to respond to the last one only. Maybe you missed the previous two?

I would like to hear what you think about the other comments as well. Thanks.

Edit: Also note this: In Ancient Roman times the name of the province of Achaea (yours is spelt wrongly) was given to the whole of Greece, except Thessaly, Epirus, and Acarnania.

Sorry I didn't answer the bonus suggestions... But I'll post an update in a moment...