SFR Yugoslavia [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Yeah... should I submit a design brief?

[Industrial Helix]

Yeah... should I submit a design brief?

Please do!

[natty dread]

Please do!

It is done.

The graphics texture is missing a certain something... I'm not sure what.

How about more cracks?

I like the cement block feeling, very Cold War imo. So that's good. But the colors are too purely put on there. Could you weather them some?

Like... flaking paint or something?

The mountains are too 3d modeled for the map....

They are temporary. Just something I doodled in a hurry to put the impassables in place. Same with the river & bridges. I'll make them nicer eventually...

[Industrial Helix]

Flaking paint would be cool.

oh, and KA-KOW!

[natty dread]

yay stampage

[natty dread]

[bigimg]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6688/yugo4.png[/bigimg]

Victory condition removed

[Victor Sullivan]

First, I'm still not sold on the capitals... Instead of a bonus, maybe do something with bombardment? You could make it so that each capital has a bombardment range of 2, or something of the like.

Second, Vojvodina is worth +2, not +3.

-Sully

[AndyDufresne]

First, I'm still not sold on the capitals... Instead of a bonus, maybe do something with bombardment? You could make it so that each capital has a bombardment range of 2, or something of the like.

Second, Vojvodina is worth +2, not +3.

-Sully

Bombardment seems out of place for a map like this. I'm not sure I'm sold on capitals, but I like the current idea better, save any relevant idea with a unique addition to the theme.


--Andy

[natty dread]

Bombardment seems out of place for a map like this.

Yep, I agree with Andy.

BTW where's my red dot?

[natty dread]

Also, I agree on Vojvodina. +2 is appropriate.

Also, I'm thinking to make the capitals starting positions but put a max. 1 on them so everyone starts with one capital... leftover capitals start neutral 3:s. So there would be 36 territories to start + 1 capital for each player... that would make:

2-3 players = 13 territories (12 + 1 capital)
4 players = 10 territories
5 players = 8 territories
6 players = 7 territories
7 players = 6 territories
8 players = 5 territories

That would work out nicely.

The starting capital could have 5 troops...

[natty dread]

[bigimg]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9230/yugo5.png[/bigimg]

Vojvodina to +2.

Changed fonts. Added these army circles that look like small holes... not sure if I'll keep them, just experimenting... they look kinda neat though.

Also, added a sea bonus: Adriatic Sea + All Ports = +2

That's 5 territories + 4 borders, so it's more of a complementary bonus for someone who holds montenegro or croatia...

[natty dread]

Here's how it looks with numbers

[bigimg]http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1556/yugo5nw.png[/bigimg]

I've actually long wanted to try this "hole army circle" thing for a map... I got to say it looks kinda neat.

[isaiah40]

I see a potential problem in 2-3 player games where the person to go first would have the advantage and possibly end up winning. Player A holds Zagreb, they place their 4 on it and attack Ljubljana. The result is they conquer it from player B, and then they proceed to take 1 more territory from player B. Player A would then receive come their next turn, +2 for 2 capitals and +5 for 15 territories assuming Player B did not take any territories from player A for +7. Of course this is assuming best case scenario for the first player to go first. It would be the same for Pristina and Skopje.

My suggestion would be to give the capitals a +1 autodeploy with a starting neutral of 4 or 5 instead of +2 for 2, and do not make them starting territories. Or you can put impassables between them to prevent this scenario, and leave it the way you have it now. Either way I think it would work.

[natty dread]

The scenario you describe is quite rare, it would require player A to start with Zagreb and player B to start with Lubljana and player A starting first... and that's 1/8 * 1/7 * 1/2 chance of happening - that amounts to about 0,8% chance. Also, Player A would have to take 5+3 armies with 9, which doesn't necessarily succeed that easily.

Not really a game-breaker in my opinion - there's many maps where you can receive a really bad drop in 1v1 games, and any map with a random drop is hard to prevent it from happening. 0,8% chance is not that bad.

Making all the capitals start neutral would mean a 12 territory start in 2-3 player games, and that would be worse than the current situation where there's a very small chance of really bad drop in 2 player games. Also, I want to keep the 2 for 2 capital bonus - it's sort of the idea: you start with 1 capital and you need to take another to get the capital bonus. Making them simple autodeploys would break this, and also it'd be boring as it's been done ad nauseam in other maps.

[natty dread]

Anyway, I could drop the starting capital troops from 5 to 4, then taking another capital + 1 more territory would require taking 4+3 with 8 which is harder. I'm not sure if this necessary though, and I kind of like the high 5 troop amount on the starting capital - gives the map a little bit of conquest flavour - so maybe we could see if it needs to be done in beta?

Also I'm going to drop Macedonia to +2, it's such a hard-to-reach place with only 2 borders, +3 seems a bit much for it especially since it's easy to expand by taking Kosovo - that's +3 more to it.

[isaiah40]

Okay I can see your point. What about putting in an impassable in between those capitals that are right next to each other? In this way you would have to go through another 3 men to get that second capital.

[natty dread]

Well I'm not sure what I could use as impassables in those places. I'll have to take a look at some maps to see if it's possible.

[natty dread]

... I can't really see any geographical features that I could use as impassables there.

[DiM]

i think you should redraw some borders because right now there are a few hard to see connections and on the small version it will be even worse.
for example nis <> west kosovo or podrinje <> pomoravlje
just widen a bit the portion of border they share and all should be fine.

[natty dread]

Ok I thought of a solution:

[bigimg]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9230/yugo5.png[/bigimg]

i think you should redraw some borders because right now there are a few hard to see connections and on the small version it will be even worse.
for example nis <> west kosovo or podrinje <> pomoravlje
just widen a bit the portion of border they share and all should be fine.

West kosovo went *poof*, so podrinje-pomoravlje is the only problem now... I can always just widen the border on the small version... I think it looks ok on the large...?

[natty dread]

Alternate bridge arrangement?

[bigimg]http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/962/yugo6.png[/bigimg]

(just noticed that the impassable between macedonia/kosovo is obsolete now)

[Boler]

Just a question and a comment.

Is Split-Dalmatia connected to Dubrovnik, or is it a pocket? There is no visible border between the two, so i'd expect it to be a pocket, but just because the two countries are so close on the map, and because they are both part of the same bonus, you might want to connect them.

I was thinking the Slovenia bonus seemed a touch high. If someone also held Primorje-Gorski, that would make it into the classic South America bonus (2 entrances, 4 terits) except you would be getting 3 instead of 2 armies. It is also seperated from the other small bonuses where the other people would start out by a fairly large stretch of land, so it is even less likely to be attacked.

Good job though! It looks like a fun, simple map.

[natty dread]

Is Split-Dalmatia connected to Dubrovnik,

They're connected via Adriatic Sea, but not directly.

I was thinking the Slovenia bonus seemed a touch high.

Slovenia was given an extra army to compensate for it having poor expansion options. Although one could argue that it now has better options, like grabbing Zagreb or going for the Port bonus. Maybe I'll change it to 2.

Good job though! It looks like a fun, simple map.

Thanks.

[natty dread]

Ok I changed Slovenia to 2 and Serbia to 5 (since it has one less border now).

[bigimg]http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/962/yugo6.png[/bigimg]

Also I think the capitals will start with 4 troops. 5 seems like it would limit you in the area of the capital you get in the drop, so I figure 4 will work better.

[isaiah40]

Or you can move two of the capitals so that two terri... oh wait you already did that!