Conquer Club

jackal31 wrote:Just curious here, but what exactly are we trying to achieve?

Are we trying to change the outcome of the first report because it "isnt fair"?

I think it is this one, attempting to remove perceived ill-gotten points via a point reset to X.

jpcloet wrote:

jackal31 wrote:Just curious here, but what exactly are we trying to achieve?

Are we trying to change the outcome of the first report because it "isnt fair"?

I think it is this one, attempting to remove perceived ill-gotten points via a point reset to X.

so, let me try to understand this, Blitz is a guy who has a great reputation with CC and has put in "his time" on the site. Some feel the result of the crime committed is lacking, and want a complete point reset? All the while, recognizing the contributions he's had.

In my opinion, why not reset his points to not include all those games. I think this is primarily fueled by the hatred for the guy and it appears they are wanting a complete point reset. Is that fair too? I dont think it is, especially given he has accepted responsibility in his profession of why/how it happened. People think Blitz was running a second account and that appears it was being run by 2 sitters, so should both parties be penalized to a point reset too? How come no-one is running the other parties name into the ground?

First of all I would like to thank Andy for having another look at this case.

One question I do have, however, is whether or not this case is going to be treated like any other abuse report. Usually some person/persons will accuse a player of some infraction and the evidence is looked into by the appropriate mods. If the accused party doesn't like what is being said he/she can defend his/herself with evidence supporting their defense. While I can understand a "peanut gallery" in the discussion or suggestions forum I am not sure if it belongs in here. I just would hate to see this one go awry since the re-opening of it was a good gesture in my opinion.

I also have another question...
To my understanding you are supposed to announce that you are sitting for someone else when you are account sitting. It seems by the chat that on at least one occasion other players had no idea that Jobiwan's account was being sitted until it was too late, otherwise they would have been commenting about Blitz, not Jobiwan. Is this an infraction?

jpcloet wrote:Just trying to clarify. If Blitz knew that J was missing turns and was already in say a Clandemonium game, then I don't see the issue except that you know you have a partner that may screw you over by missing turns. However, if he was not in the game and blitz joined in the account of J, then I'm not comfortable with that. If Blitz invited him to a game, knowing he was away, and then a) let another accept the invite or b) accepted the invite himself, then I see several potential conflicts of interest.

give us some time i have a weekly time line back to the tenth of march so far with speed games to confirm the game creation dates

Regarding a point reset, I'll just quote my opinion on the previous C&A thread.

Rodion wrote:Blitz would get those points back. A point reset would actually punish the community, as they'd have to play against a great player with the cost-benefit of playing against a private 1st class. It would also be good for Blitz's teammates, as they'd play alongside a great player with the cost-benefit of playing alonside a private 1st class.

I'm obviously against that kind of punishment, unless someone comes up with a "tweak" that actually makes it work.

I'm actually starting to think this sordid history with Jobiwan goes back a lot longer than people may believe. Take stock of all their games for starters (553 of them). Initially they were always on opposing teams. Look at Game 5558634, Game 5655106 (Round 6 in particular), Game 5655107, and best of all Game 5655108 (in which Jobiwan used every turn and attack to come off a reef and trim 2 x neut 10 luggers and thus leave himself with nothing when Blitz came through). It's actually so obvious it's laughable. There then followed a further 60-odd games of which Blitz won all but one. In the majority of these games (all public) they were quads set-up by Blitz, and Jobiwan just happened to be the first player on Team 2 in almost all cases. Isn't that a bit odd? Coincidental? In order to be the first player to join Team 2 on that many occasions one can only assume it was by invite. So anyway.....60+ games with just one defeat, so you'd wonder why with such a shitty track record Blitz would want to suddenly bring poor Jobiwan on to his team and thereafter play a staggering c.500 games with him.

Ask yourself - would you bring in as a team mate someone who you had just beaten in 59 of 60 games? Or would you do it on the basis you had control of that account and the player's rank was so low it benefitted your objective to farm more points?

It's speculation maybe, but you only have to look at those games I've listed above (and the pattern of Jobiwan attacking neuts) to wonder if there wasn't something going on and, if not, why on Earth a skilled player would suddenly want to team with someone who obviously hasn't a clue.

jackal31 wrote:so, let me try to understand this, Blitz is a guy who has a great reputation with CC and has put in "his time" on the site. Some feel the result of the crime committed is lacking, and want a complete point reset? All the while, recognizing the contributions he's had.

A complete reset is ridiculous, some reset or deduction would make more sense. Time on the site should have nothing to do with it. That "great" reputation is subjective; as a mod I've had to have several conversation with him around his behavior. Let's just stick to the facts rather than opinions.

Chariot of Fire wrote: So anyway.....60+ games with just one defeat, so you'd wonder why with such a shitty track record Blitz would want to suddenly bring poor Jobiwan on to his team and thereafter play a staggering c.500 games with him.

Presuming all the games weren't on some weird ass map, I would like to think that even an unskilled player such as myself could win more then 1 out of 60 games against a single player.

Those 60 games might be worth investigating for dumping.

this is an entirely new aspect to this and it is fascinating. i didn't want it to get lost in the shuffle...-the black jesus

Chariot of Fire wrote:I'm actually starting to think this sordid history with Jobiwan goes back a lot longer than people may believe. Take stock of all their games for starters (553 of them). Initially they were always on opposing teams. Look at Game 5558634, Game 5655106 (Round 6 in particular), Game 5655107, and best of all Game 5655108 (in which Jobiwan used every turn and attack to come off a reef and trim 2 x neut 10 luggers and thus leave himself with nothing when Blitz came through). It's actually so obvious it's laughable. There then followed a further 60-odd games of which Blitz won all but one. In the majority of these games (all public) they were quads set-up by Blitz, and Jobiwan just happened to be the first player on Team 2 in almost all cases. Isn't that a bit odd? Coincidental? In order to be the first player to join Team 2 on that many occasions one can only assume it was by invite. So anyway.....60+ games with just one defeat, so you'd wonder why with such a shitty track record Blitz would want to suddenly bring poor Jobiwan on to his team and thereafter play a staggering c.500 games with him.

Ask yourself - would you bring in as a team mate someone who you had just beaten in 59 of 60 games? Or would you do it on the basis you had control of that account and the player's rank was so low it benefitted your objective to farm more points?

It's speculation maybe, but you only have to look at those games I've listed above (and the pattern of Jobiwan attacking neuts) to wonder if there wasn't something going on and, if not, why on Earth a skilled player would suddenly want to team with someone who obviously hasn't a clue.

the fact the the original c&a report was locked so quickly reminds me of this

According to map rank:

Jobi's score

1986 points -Jan 27th
1650 points - Feb 9th
1169 points - Feb 20th
867 points - March 1st
513 points - March 11th

TIMELINE TO DATE i have not went further back than 20th feb.

ok all these games start after blitz statement in the first c and a report


time stamp game speedGame 8790475
Game 8794735
Game 8795577
Game 8795586
Game 8795596
Game 8795604
Game 8795614
Game 8796548
Game 8797341

these are just the joined and created ones.

for tourneys

i am using this game as a time line as it is the day after blitzs post in the c and a forum

Game 8790475
game ref no Game 8744807

games joined after and created after this game dated 22nd march

Game 8745781
Game 8745794
Game 8754600
Game 8754801
Game 8755055
Game 8755060
Game 8755061
Game 8755064
Game 8755066
Game 8755068
Game 8755076
Game 8755078
Game 8756650
Game 8786036

team games non tourney
Game 8771783
om the 15th of march till the 22nd speed game ref no Game 8699860


Game 8739168
Game 8737386
Game 8731950
Game 8731948
Game 8731947
Game 8731164
Game 8725831
Game 8725775
Game 8725739
Game 8725373
Game 8725303
Game 8725175
Game 8725081
Game 8724180
Game 8721322
Game 8720051
Game 8719253
Game 8718951
Game 8718889
Game 8718873
Game 8716667
Game 8714692
Game 8711703
Game 8707566
Game 8707535
Game 8705273
Game 8705035
Game 8705034
Game 8705033
Game 8704793

all tourneys and deadbeat.

back to the 10th march when he had already started deadbeating games deadbeat games prior to this.



quad games made and signed up to non tourney
Game 8674246
Game 8674249
Game 8674255
Game 8674264
Game 8674270
Game 8679673
Game 8679681
Game 8679684
Game 8688158
Game 8688165
Game 8688168
Game 8693811
Game 8693814
Game 8693819

notice no missed turns in these games until this month after c and a report. also no talk of sitter till after c and a report.

tourney games.
Game 8681056
Game 8683068
Game 8683986
Game 8683987
Game 8683990
Game 8684074
Game 8686245
Game 8686453
Game 8686455
Game 8686456
Game 8687252
Game 8687253
Game 8687254
Game 8687402
Game 8687403
Game 8687406
Game 8687408
Game 8687409
Game 8687410
Game 8689146
Game 8690799
Game 8690800
Game 8690801
Game 8691231
Game 8692673
Game 8692778[/quote]

this is linked games back in feb 20th as far as i have gone back. look at jobis game play he is only deploying from round the 20th of the month
Game 8504297
Game 8505428
Game 8545475
Game 8550468
Game 8550555
Game 8550726
Game 8552954
Game 8553411
Game 8553471
Game 8553473
Game 8554866
Game 8554913
Game 8554931
Game 8560456
Game 8560458
Game 8560929
Game 8560930
Game 8567175
Game 8567179
Game 8567186
Game 8568451
Game 8568457
Game 8571303
Game 8575308
Game 8581361
Game 8581362
Game 8581363
Game 8587427
Game 8587437
Game 8587455
Game 8593542
Game 8594426 ***** this game sums it up he is even asked why he is not playing the game.

for this last section i have not posted all the games and am sure we might be able to go further back as still not found the games blitz said he went off about jobi missing or found any games predating the origonal c and a that jobi missed in.

Chariot of Fire wrote:I'm actually starting to think this sordid history with Jobiwan goes back a lot longer than people may believe. Take stock of all their games for starters (553 of them). Initially they were always on opposing teams. Look at Game 5558634, Game 5655106 (Round 6 in particular), Game 5655107, and best of all Game 5655108 (in which Jobiwan used every turn and attack to come off a reef and trim 2 x neut 10 luggers and thus leave himself with nothing when Blitz came through). It's actually so obvious it's laughable.

I think you are giving Jobiwan too much credit. He's not a very good player. Plus, I know a lot of people who struggle with Galapagos.

Kia Ora kids. Don't beat up those that work the system, change the system........ Think about it folks. Some people play for the challenge, some people play for the points, and do all they can to reduce point risk and challenge to a very low odds percentage. To change the system would require too much coding me thinks. The real players that have been around for a while know what is what. Know who farms legally, and who is a standout player. Knows who is prepared to teach new clan members team games no matter the points risk. Basically who is on site for their own glory, or who is out their to have a wank in front of the mirror solo with a made up face like an arse clown. The other kids I don't know, blitz has done a lot for this site. Not saying he is a protected species or that I'm a greenie. Just suggesting that rather than playing the man, look at the rules. blitz, in my eyes your not an arse clown. Just another seppo, that would be a kiwi if you could be that cool.

rofl i didnt even see the map rank with jobis score seems like a coincidence his point drop runs in line with the time line

jackal31 wrote:

jpcloet wrote:

jackal31 wrote:Just curious here, but what exactly are we trying to achieve?

Are we trying to change the outcome of the first report because it "isnt fair"?

I think it is this one, attempting to remove perceived ill-gotten points via a point reset to X.

so, let me try to understand this, Blitz is a guy who has a great reputation with CC and has put in "his time" on the site. Some feel the result of the crime committed is lacking, and want a complete point reset? All the while, recognizing the contributions he's had.

In my opinion, why not reset his points to not include all those games. I think this is primarily fueled by the hatred for the guy and it appears they are wanting a complete point reset. Is that fair too? I dont think it is, especially given he has accepted responsibility in his profession of why/how it happened. People think Blitz was running a second account and that appears it was being run by 2 sitters, so should both parties be penalized to a point reset too? How come no-one is running the other parties name into the ground?

Not to sure everyone is looking for Blitz points to be reset. (maybe some are who are jealous of the amount he has) The way I see it is that cc ers want to make sure the punishment (if any) is a: warranted b:justified and c:fits the crime.
I dont think there is much doubt about how good Blitz is as the stats show how many games he has won. Its more the case of the cc society seeing that a well known good player is punished the same way as a noob would be if they were caught cheating. Its always easy to thrash a peasant than a king.
I have played against Blitz a number of times, all in quads only once was it without J (never lost to his team btw)I had always found it strange that he played with a cook as usually great teams are full of majors and above, so not overly surprised when this was first brought into the forums.
And like others wait with anticipation to the final outcome which I feel is a long way off.

jackal31 wrote:so, let me try to understand this, Blitz is a guy who has a great reputation with CC and has put in "his time" on the site. Some feel the result of the crime committed is lacking, and want a complete point reset? All the while, recognizing the contributions he's had.

In my opinion, why not reset his points to not include all those games. I think this is primarily fueled by the hatred for the guy and it appears they are wanting a complete point reset. Is that fair too? I dont think it is, especially given he has accepted responsibility in his profession of why/how it happened. People think Blitz was running a second account and that appears it was being run by 2 sitters, so should both parties be penalized to a point reset too? How come no-one is running the other parties name into the ground?

There was a case when a mod was stripped of colors and banned from the site for a severe infraction. So no, past achievements rarely account in C&A reports. And I doubt there is much hatred left. Only facts now.

One question I have is does anyone know if there is any proof that Jobiwan asked Blitzaholic to join tournament games for him? This would be one way that Blitzaholic could possibly make himself look a little less guilty. Otherwise we can only assume that he was abusing Jobiwan's account.

Funkyterrance wrote:One question I have is does anyone know if there is any proof that Jobiwan asked Blitzaholic to join tournament games for him? This would be one way that Blitzaholic could possibly make himself look a little less guilty. Otherwise we can only assume that he was abusing Jobiwan's account.

Well joining tournament games isn't really the problem. I guess playing them is one of them tho. However the Public games still seems to be the biggest offense to me, which is what the warning was for?

If J was winning so many quad games as a Blitz teammate, how come he has less than 700 points. This can only be so if he has played all of his 1v1's like an arse.

So the question is; if his personal play was so poor and his quad play was so good, just how many of his quad turns did HE actually take himself?

I think we might also be talking about intentional point dump and accoutn hijacking, as I remember he was cleared of it last time.

AndyDufresne wrote:Jobiwan Games, in Game number order, looking at games from March 7th to present:

Game 8647970 [Tourney] 2011-03-07 07:37:20 - initialized

[2011-03-24 10:51:05 - Deadpool: This goes a lot faster without jobiwan]

--Andy

Boy, I remember those games. We were in a tournament where we had ten 4 player standard games against the same players. Jobiwan had no rhyme or reason to when he/she would take her/his turns. Missed 2 rounds, take a turn, miss 1 round, take the next turn. It was brutal. I would have much rather Jobiwan just deadbeated rather than torturing us like that. It is so hard to strategize and game balance when you have 1 person randomly not taking turns.

On the cheating issue, I don't know who took what turns, I just saw my name in this thread and had to comment about how bad that experience was because the memories came flooding back.

As far as who is the best player in CC, I am 2 for 2 against blitz in non-team games, Game 4723201 Game 4944336 and 1 for 5 against jobiwan, so my vote is jobiwan is the best (when he/she is playing).

Yea but I think part of the whole picture is that he joined games for Jobiwan and then deadbeated on some of the games and not on others which could be seen as fixing the games to some extent. I am not disagreeing with you, I just think that he couldn't have done one without the other or at least couldn't have gotten called out on it.

Namor,

At this point in this game it is allowed for one player to order around his teammates in games. What some people are looking into is whether or not the turns/deadbeats and joining of new games took place before or after Jobiwan left the site and whether or not these actions were done to let Blitzahoic get an unfair advantage (cheat).

If you are taking the games after 7th of March, he aint guilty of point dumping. Unless you want to move the goal posts. This is Jobiwans map rank chart between 11th Feb and 7th Mar.