Conquer Club

And not just the deficit ... overall debt is nearly 3 times the GDP! as this informative Saxigraphic shows -

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129547&hilit=debtor+nations

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:So... UK residents - what's the deal? Why are tuitions being hiked? Are we talking Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal here? Inquiring minds what to know.

Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Do you have any links to the other austerity measures? I think it would be helpful to apply these to the United States (maybe).

thegreekdog wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:So... UK residents - what's the deal? Why are tuitions being hiked? Are we talking Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal here? Inquiring minds what to know.

Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Do you have any links to the other austerity measures? I think it would be helpful to apply these to the United States (maybe).

Allot of it is going to be coming from laid off civil servants according to this NPR story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130690622, they plan on cutting 490,000 jobs. They are also cutting their military budget 42,000 defense jobs are being cut mostly from civilian areas. This BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10371590 story gives a few other details.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:So... UK residents - what's the deal? Why are tuitions being hiked? Are we talking Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal here? Inquiring minds what to know.

Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Do you have any links to the other austerity measures? I think it would be helpful to apply these to the United States (maybe).

Allot of it is going to be coming from laid off civil servants according to this NPR story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130690622, they plan on cutting 490,000 jobs. They are also cutting their military budget 42,000 defense jobs are being cut mostly from civilian areas. This BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10371590 story gives a few other details.

Thanks. Off the top of my head, I would say that cutting jobs may bite the UK Government in the ass anyway. I find it interesting that blame is placed on the bailout of banks. If this same scenario runs itself through in the US, I would what the end result will be.

thegreekdog wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:So... UK residents - what's the deal? Why are tuitions being hiked? Are we talking Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal here? Inquiring minds what to know.

Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Do you have any links to the other austerity measures? I think it would be helpful to apply these to the United States (maybe).

Allot of it is going to be coming from laid off civil servants according to this NPR story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130690622, they plan on cutting 490,000 jobs. They are also cutting their military budget 42,000 defense jobs are being cut mostly from civilian areas. This BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10371590 story gives a few other details.

Thanks. Off the top of my head, I would say that cutting jobs may bite the UK Government in the ass anyway. I find it interesting that blame is placed on the bailout of banks. If this same scenario runs itself through in the US, I would what the end result will be.

It will be interesting to see what the US ends up doing. The UK plan while brutal at least seems realistic and will probably cut the deficit and allow the government to get on a more efficient standing, and hopefully post surpluses for some time to come. A problem I see arising in the US is the all the Anti-tax rhetoric risks denying government the tools needed to get the job done, or it may force Government to cut way more than it should. For example refusing to raise taxes on even the highest income earners.

Baron Von PWN wrote:It will be interesting to see what the US ends up doing. The UK plan while brutal at least seems realistic and will probably cut the deficit and allow the government to get on a more efficient standing, and hopefully post surpluses for some time to come. A problem I see arising in the US is the all the Anti-tax rhetoric risks denying government the tools needed to get the job done, or it may force Government to cut way more than it should. For example refusing to raise taxes on even the highest income earners.

Yeah, but ... the US only needs to cut £1.00 for every £3.50 the UK needs to cut. Of course, unless the sacred cows in defence spending are sacrificed you may be correct about a need in tax increases. Does the US need 10-16 aircraft carriers? The UK is planning on sharing 1 with France moving forward. Even the US' (relatively) modest debt/deficit versus those of Europe is irreconcilable unless there's a re-priority of weapons procurements.

The US won't raise the tax rate on corporations (considering the US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world... not counting state taxes of course), so the only option would be raising taxes on individuals. Alternatively, they can impose a VAT, but that would be just silly.

I really think the cuts are going to come from federal outlays to state governments, but that is purely a guess.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:So... UK residents - what's the deal? Why are tuitions being hiked? Are we talking Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal here? Inquiring minds what to know.

Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Pretty much. However most departments are facing 15%-20% cuts (Health and certain parts of education are not facing any real cuts, sort of), but the state funding of university is being slashed by 80%! The tripling of tuition fees is just to cover the funding gap that is going to be created, the universities themselves will not have any increase in revenue.

Btw, its wasn't just a coalition member who didn't want to increase the fees, every single propspective candidate for the party signed a pledge and had a photo taken promising never to raise fees and to do everything they can to minimise or abolish fees in the future. They directly appealed to university students (and won a lot of seats in university towns) but the complete U-turn after the election by the party leadership left every student who voted for them feeling used and as if they had been backstabbed - hence massive anger.

Titanic wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:So... UK residents - what's the deal? Why are tuitions being hiked? Are we talking Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal here? Inquiring minds what to know.

Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Pretty much. However most departments are facing 15%-20% cuts (Health and certain parts of education are not facing any real cuts, sort of), but the state funding of university is being slashed by 80%! The tripling of tuition fees is just to cover the funding gap that is going to be created, the universities themselves will not have any increase in revenue.

Btw, its wasn't just a coalition member who didn't want to increase the fees, every single propspective candidate for the party signed a pledge and had a photo taken promising never to raise fees and to do everything they can to minimise or abolish fees in the future. They directly appealed to university students (and won a lot of seats in university towns) but the complete U-turn after the election by the party leadership left every student who voted for them feeling used and as if they had been backstabbed - hence massive anger.

That was the Lib-dems that broke the promise right? or did the tories make the same promise?

AndyDufresne wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

nagerous wrote:We seem to be going off-topic here debating the meaning of violence, however as per this article by the guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... rvative-hq it is clear that there was violence too with the 35 arrests and the 14 injuries.

However, although a peaceful protest turned into a situation of violence, I am largely of the opinion too expressed by radiojake. The politician's intentions are to screw the middle classes and the poor who cannot necessarily afford to send their children off to university. Education should be for the masses, not just some privileged elite who were born into wealth. Students are already coming out of university with heaps of debt, with the graduate market so parched already and the lack of jobs available in this current economic climate, a 3x hike on university fees is just going to create more and more problems for the next generation.

Wait one sec. Conservative politicians are taking away education from the middle class and poor? Sucks they have that much control...

on a sarcastic note, what the point of an education when there aren't any jobs available anyways? Globalization happened, and anyone who used to have a lot of jobs is fooked because they found someone else to do it for 80 cents/hour

Just wait til the machines make our lives a job. Then we can all be happy.

Or intravenously sad.

show

--Andy

Corrected for specificity.

Baron Von PWN wrote:
That was the Lib-dems that broke the promise right? or did the tories make the same promise?

Just the lib dems.

This photo...



was taken just as Charles explained to Camilla, that the general riff raff had previously had their further education subsidised by the tax payer.

The US Secret Service travels with two of these specialized SUV's in the president's convoy in the event it is surrounded by a mob:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vtsYIDj ... re=related



If both guns are operational they can lay up-to 8,000 NATO Standard 7.62mm rounds per minute on a crowd.

There's also a battery of FIM 92 missiles in the ECM vehicle in case the crowd have fighter jets or helicopters.

They also have a T-Shirt cannon to distract the crowd with novelty athletic apparel.

alex951 wrote:

rockfist wrote:I never understand why people riot, when people riot it turns many undecideds against their cause.

Remember the French revolution? caused a stir I would say

Isn't that the revolution where most of the revolutionaries wound up losing their heads? I wonder if they could talk now if they would say it was worth it.

thegreekdog wrote:The US won't raise the tax rate on corporations (considering the US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world... not counting state taxes of course), so the only option would be raising taxes on individuals. Alternatively, they can impose a VAT, but that would be just silly.

I really think the cuts are going to come from federal outlays to state governments, but that is purely a guess.

Really? ....

That changes a lot....

No way that's true! I'd imagine corporate taxes being tremendously higher in under-developed countries ruled by some dictator.

It's probably true if you compare our corporate taxes to all developed countries, but ...

rockfist wrote:

alex951 wrote:

rockfist wrote:I never understand why people riot, when people riot it turns many undecideds against their cause.

Remember the French revolution? caused a stir I would say

Isn't that the revolution where most of the revolutionaries wound up losing their heads? I wonder if they could talk now if they would say it was worth it.

Yeah that whole uprising against the monarchs was a bad idea. I mean, look what we got today!!!!!!

rockfist wrote:

alex951 wrote:

rockfist wrote:I never understand why people riot, when people riot it turns many undecideds against their cause.

Remember the French revolution? caused a stir I would say

Isn't that the revolution where most of the revolutionaries wound up losing their heads? I wonder if they could talk now if they would say it was worth it.

That's BS. People riot because politicians don't take the rioters(pre rioting) position seriously. Rioting is about scaring politicians, because politicians are cowards. You can't deligitimize a position that politicians don't consider legitimate.

Roughly 70% of Americans wanted the bush tax cuts on the rich to expire. Roughly the same number wanted a public option. Unless you exert pressure on these guys, they'll never do what people want.

thegreekdog wrote:The US won't raise the tax rate on corporations (considering the US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world... not counting state taxes of course)

Really? Link please.

Aradhus wrote:

rockfist wrote:

alex951 wrote:

rockfist wrote:I never understand why people riot, when people riot it turns many undecideds against their cause.

Remember the French revolution? caused a stir I would say

Isn't that the revolution where most of the revolutionaries wound up losing their heads? I wonder if they could talk now if they would say it was worth it.

That's BS. People riot because politicians don't take the rioters(pre rioting) position seriously. Rioting is about scaring politicians, because politicians are cowards. You can't deligitimize a position that politicians don't consider legitimate.

Roughly 70% of Americans wanted the bush tax cuts on the rich to expire. Roughly the same number wanted a public option. Unless you exert pressure on these guys, they'll never do what people want.

I doubt that is true in regards to the tax cuts or the public option, but if it is it is only because they were ill informed. People who support class warfare are low information voters.

Aradhus wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:The US won't raise the tax rate on corporations (considering the US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world... not counting state taxes of course)

Really? Link please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

I'm pretty drunk right now, so that's all I'm going to post (well that and what I just tpyed as well as this what Im typing now).

BigBallinStalin wrote:

rockfist wrote:

alex951 wrote:

rockfist wrote:I never understand why people riot, when people riot it turns many undecideds against their cause.

Remember the French revolution? caused a stir I would say

Isn't that the revolution where most of the revolutionaries wound up losing their heads? I wonder if they could talk now if they would say it was worth it.

Yeah that whole uprising against the monarchs was a bad idea. I mean, look what we got today!!!!!!

The French Revolution devolved into mass insanity that history records with bitter accuracy. Citing the French Revolution as an ideal revolution is silly. You say "Look at what we got today", but you fail to look at what it got France at the time. Napoleon. They killed the King only to crown an Emperor and plunge their country into non-stop war with every nation in Europe.

radiojake wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:on a sarcastic note, what the point of an education when there aren't any jobs available anyways? Globalization happened, and anyone who used to have a lot of jobs is fooked because they found someone else to do it for 80 cents/hour

And yet despite this you still maintain a free global market is the best solution?

no. I have never said that.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:Not a UK resident but I've been following the story through the Economist and the BBC. Basically the UK beget deficit is massive,(worse than the American deficit as a % of GDP I believe) So the government is undertaking some pretty serious austerity measures. Part of the involves cutting subsidies for University tuition this will mean Tuition costs will go up pretty severely (about triple I believe) this is after one of the coalition members promised not to increase tuition. Hence student riots.

Do you have any links to the other austerity measures? I think it would be helpful to apply these to the United States (maybe).

Allot of it is going to be coming from laid off civil servants according to this NPR story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130690622, they plan on cutting 490,000 jobs. They are also cutting their military budget 42,000 defense jobs are being cut mostly from civilian areas. This BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10371590 story gives a few other details.

Thanks. Off the top of my head, I would say that cutting jobs may bite the UK Government in the ass anyway. I find it interesting that blame is placed on the bailout of banks. If this same scenario runs itself through in the US, I would what the end result will be.

It will be interesting to see what the US ends up doing. The UK plan while brutal at least seems realistic and will probably cut the deficit and allow the government to get on a more efficient standing, and hopefully post surpluses for some time to come. A problem I see arising in the US is the all the Anti-tax rhetoric risks denying government the tools needed to get the job done, or it may force Government to cut way more than it should. For example refusing to raise taxes on even the highest income earners.

When the gov't stops subsidizing tuition, tuition prices stop rising. Watch and See! In fact, tuition mainly rises because of gov't funding. Just look at what happened to real estate. you pull the gov't out of it, and you have a free market. Tuition prices will stabilize easy.

Aradhus wrote:What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes

That's a completely different issue.

Politically, it would be bad if the federal government were to raise the actual tax rate on corporations. Knowing what we know about the media (not liberal, not conservative... just media), there would be more emphasis on the tax rate increase than on the fact that corporations have plenty of tax deductions and "loopholes" that allow them to pay less tax. Further, the concept of taxable income is different for a company than for an individual Joe Schmo taxpayer. Companies are paying salaries, buying crap to make into other crap, etc. Aradhus doesn't issue a 10-K to shareholders.

That being said, I'm not against taking away some deductions for corporations; I just think that the benefit of raising the corporate tax rate (considering the low taxable income levels of corporations) is far outweighed by the political detriment of being seen as a tax raiser.