Conquer Club

1 - Maria (von) Trapp's comment was the most erudite I've ever seen in any thread on the Club. Someone should bing-dot-com "Hoover" + "Committee for Recent Changes" to find the genesis of the current problem of which Maria's synthesis provides exodus.

2 - The woman in the picture is an activist of the Worker's World Party ("Bail Out People" [the URL in the black box at the bottom of the sign] is an initiative of the "May 1 Coalition" which is run out of the offices of Worker's World Party in NYC down the block from the Rubin Museum in Chelsea - LUVVVV that place gang! The bagels in the cafe are the YUMMIEST you will ever taste! ).

Worker's World, of which this woman is an activist, is a revolutionary communist party with which I am in full solidarity. It is the only real successor to communist insurrection in the U.S. WWP is the only socialist group in the U.S. which conducts an annual solidarity exchange with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK). During the Cold War, only they and the CPUSA were willing to work in solidarity with cultural and military liaisons at embassies of Warsaw Pact member states in the U.S. to aid in agitating for social justice and ensuring world peace by providing critical information on NATO military maneuvers and infrastructure within CONUS.

I join [player]mpjh[/player] and all other progressives in The Club in saying kudos to this brave woman!

mpjh wrote:Yeah, hapsmo hit it on the nail's head again. What is wrong with Amerika is those lazy sob's that are just to lazy to work for minimum wage. All 17 million of them.

A minimum wage job is better than no job at all.

Sarcasm not your strong suit? There are a minimum of 17 million unemployed -- there are not 17 million additional minimum wage jobs available.

Holy shit! Two mods disagreeing! <watches 2 pigs flying lazily overhead>


Honibaz

HapSmo19 wrote:

...a job is not a right, silly.

Who fills people's heads with this shit? Oh wait,...I remember now.

If a job was a right, people would not do any work. In that reality, people would probably find it an inconvenience to even transport themselves to the workplace. How could a job be a right, if you don't have an automobile or transportation? The greedy fatcats must pay for my transportation.

Workplace transportation is a right!

This chik should be filling out applications, not begging in the streets.

Phatscotty wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:

...a job is not a right, silly.

Who fills people's heads with this shit? Oh wait,...I remember now.

If a job was a right, people would not do any work. In that reality, people would probably find it an inconvenience to even transport themselves to the workplace. How could a job be a right, if you don't have an automobile or transportation? The greedy fatcats must pay for my transportation.

Workplace transportation is a right!

This chik should be filling out applications, not begging in the streets.

Man, its a pity you weren't around during the Great Depression, you could have worked shit out easy. "GET A JOB YOU LAZY TURDS! WHY ARE YOU ALL BLACK AND WHITE AND DEPRESSING AND SHIT? APPLICATIONS!"

Aww, come-on, we know all the poor and weak are lazy.

Especially dem black ones.


Honibaz

I handily solved this problem by firing ALL my employees 7 years ago and doing ALL the work myself ;o) What kinda commie am I?

.....although, I do miss sleeping.........

That would make you a fooking isolationist.


Honibaz

Night Strike wrote:

mpjh wrote:Yeah, hapsmo hit it on the nail's head again. What is wrong with Amerika is those lazy sob's that are just to lazy to work for minimum wage. All 17 million of them.

A minimum wage job is better than no job at all.

Congatulations on being a prize Fuckwit

Night Strike wrote:

b.k. barunt wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Maybe if she would spend her time applying instead of protesting, she might get a job.

Hey nightstrike, next time you go to one of your Bible studies you might want to check this one out - just fer shits'n giggles i mean . . .

Psalm 82:3-5


Honibaz

There's a difference between looking out for the "poor and weak" and calling out the lazy.

Why do you assume she's lazy, rather than poor and needy? is it because she's black?

Night Strike wrote:

b.k. barunt wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Maybe if she would spend her time applying instead of protesting, she might get a job.

Hey nightstrike, next time you go to one of your Bible studies you might want to check this one out - just fer shits'n giggles i mean . . .

Psalm 82:3-5


Honibaz

There's a difference between looking out for the "poor and weak" and calling out the lazy.

Not when people assume a person without a job is simply lazy because they don't have one.

I mean, I find it odd the unemployment rate is rising, are we blaming that on people getting lazier, and not wanting to stay at their jobs which are being moved overseas after 15 or 20 years of hard work and commitment.

Perhaps those 30000, to 40000 blocks of employs are just hoping to survive off of the massive unemployment insurance they have been paying premiums into for their entire lives, which pays not nearly enough typically to survive on for very long, and they are all just getting lazy and not working hard to insure their jobs go away.

It is very funny to watch people who literally got to where they are because of the organized labor and labor laws, which created an environment for normal people to actually succeed, condemn the very act that is nearly universally responsible for any success they have now.

Had labor laws, and unions not been formed, those with the power to hire and fire and pay indiscriminantly, would, and to some degree still do, keeping every persons ability to earn a decent wage down. Instead however, the jobs were just moved to countries where such laws could be ignored, and often with our tax money supporting such moves.

The reason our country became such a success, was because many jobs were created. An environment was made to allow people to actually make a living without having to kill themselves doing so. We have all benefited from that bubble, and unfortunately have forgotten what created it in the first place, and spent all the profits from that labor. Now, we have borrowed from other countries, cut the taxes on those with the most, and given taxes to the very people who simply do not need it, creating an environment in which there is not enough work, when if things were done differently, there is no reason to believe there would not be.

The problem now of course, is the US doesnt have much to offer the rest of the world. We dont have the technology anymore. We dont have the factories anymore. We dont have the trained workforce to even create products for other countries. We are surviving on our past exports and its fairly clear our surpluses have run out, and its not likely the world will need much from us in the future.

Sure, we'll have the best movies, and kids that can play halo, but when push comes to shove, we wont have much to sell them to try to repay our debt, because the money and means to make it have been fleeced, and a very small percentage of the population has benefited from that. Unfortunately, most laughing and sneering at those without jobs now understand that not many are immune from such things. No doubt many that did the same thing years ago, are now unemployed themselves, and have similarly found that they simply are just not needed, because there is nothing being made, or manufactured, to require managing in the first place.

We have evolved into cannibals fighting off the scraps that are left from what was manufactured years ago, all while the other countries are working hard improving manufacturing to capacities we will not ever be able to catch up to.

It very much is not a right of the people to have jobs. Jobs instead need to be available for people so they can take care of themselves, and help contribute to society. This applies globally as well. There is plenty to do. Plenty that want to do it. The problem is we created a system in which the resources for enabling an environment for people to actually contribute, are in the hands of the smallest percentage of the population, and in their undying greed, do everything to keep it there, even as the result means people starving and dying. And these people are not lazy. They would be happy to work, as most are. As most of the recently unemployed were happy working for their entire lives were. Its just a matter of management of the resources to as not to benefit only the ultra-rich of the world, and creating an environment where a more fair percentage is available for those without such resources.

In this country, those with no resources, have but one measure of power to exert influence, and that is their vote. So its easy for an employed person to say there is no inherent right for a job. But as many have found out, and many more will find out, having access to a job is the only way to support a family, and provide for their children, who very much do have a right to eat and have a place to sleep, on a very real and basic level. If a job is the only way one can provide such things for their children, than it does become a right de-facto, since the alternative is watching their children die.

Frigidus wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:

...a job is not a right, silly.

Who fills people's heads with this shit? Oh wait,...I remember now.

If a job was a right, people would not do any work. In that reality, people would probably find it an inconvenience to even transport themselves to the workplace. How could a job be a right, if you don't have an automobile or transportation? The greedy fatcats must pay for my transportation.

Workplace transportation is a right!

This chik should be filling out applications, not begging in the streets.

Man, its a pity you weren't around during the Great Depression, you could have worked shit out easy. "GET A JOB YOU LAZY TURDS! WHY ARE YOU ALL BLACK AND WHITE AND DEPRESSING AND SHIT? APPLICATIONS!"

Its very likely he will be around for the great depression, as will many who laugh at people with slightly less luck than themselves, until they too find themselves in the same position, as many, many have, and continue to do so every single day.

In any case, she is not begging. She is an activist and donating her time for a cause she believes in. She is sitting down on the curb and clearly exhausted.

Certainly its possibly because she is baked out of her mind or got wasted the night before, but also possible that its because she believes strongly in her cause, and has spent too much time in the heat donating her time to furthering it. Its possible she has a couple of kids and is desperate to find means to support them, and as such has decided to try to send a message to those that simply do not understand how difficult it is to be in her situation, and Is hoping to educate and perhaps even inspire them to make changes.

In any case, there will always be those that need to make fun of the weak to feel strong, thereby showing their weakness for all to see.

Thats Commie Talk Fitzy......

AAFitz wrote:
The reason our country became such a success, was because many jobs were created. An environment was made to allow people to actually make a living without having to kill themselves doing so. We have all benefited from that bubble, and unfortunately have forgotten what created it in the first place, and spent all the profits from that labor. Now, we have borrowed from other countries, cut the taxes on those with the most, and given taxes to the very people who simply do not need it, creating an environment in which there is not enough work, when if things were done differently, there is no reason to believe there would not be.

The problem now of course, is the US doesnt have much to offer the rest of the world. We dont have the technology anymore. We dont have the factories anymore. We dont have the trained workforce to even create products for other countries. We are surviving on our past exports and its fairly clear our surpluses have run out, and its not likely the world will need much from us in the future.

Perhaps I am speaking out-of-turn as a foreigner, but it seems the American Dream - work hard and anything can be yours - simply does not work in this new global reality in the way that it could in the past, if it ever could. But its inverse - the lazy will be left behind - is still applied to anyone out of work in a backwards-ass manner, i.e. if you are out of work, then you must be lazy. The world does not work for everyone like that anymore. Ask the redundant automotive workers from Michigan.

Changing perceptions and opinions takes time, but it must necessarily happen.

Night Strike wrote:

mpjh wrote:Yeah, hapsmo hit it on the nail's head again. What is wrong with Amerika is those lazy sob's that are just to lazy to work for minimum wage. All 17 million of them.

A minimum wage job is better than no job at all.

Great analysis Night Strike.

the.killing.44 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:

mpjh wrote:Yeah, hapsmo hit it on the nail's head again. What is wrong with Amerika is those lazy sob's that are just to lazy to work for minimum wage. All 17 million of them.

A minimum wage job is better than no job at all.

Great analysis Night Strike.

Yeah i think that was one of his best.


Honibaz

b.k. barunt wrote:I don't think Hap missed the point and i damn sure don't need backup from you dearie. If you think Hap is one of the ultra rich i'd say you missed something - possibly cognitive thought. ROTFLMFAO!


Honibaz

where the hell did i say hapsmo was one of the ultra-rich

comic boy wrote:Thats Commie Talk Fitzy......

I understand it sounds that way, but I assure you, I am a pure capitalist. I have lived long enough, and earned every dime Ive ever earned through hard work. Human nature is capitalistic, and there is no realistic way for us to work other than through a capitalistic system, where you are rewarded according to what you produce. Any other system fails at a basic level, almost self-evidently. However, capitalism, does not require pure capitalism to thrive and succeed. In fact, also paradoxically because of human nature, pure capitalism also cannot work, because it so self-evidently results in power corrupting, and unfair exploitation to the point of slavery emerging very quickly.

I hardly suggest that the government control everything, or that it possibly can or should control everything, but more that it should guide it to simply even out the board as much as it can, to minimize the massive inequities, and problems that arise from excess power, which is derived from the benefits of capitalism.

There is plenty to do, plenty that needs to be done, and plenty that will do it. We need only provide an environment that allows the most efficient combination of reward vs work to provide this environment, and it only comes down to percentages. We have watched the US build a system in which people were able to work and make better lives for themselves. When the opportunity was there to do so, the majority took advantage and did just that. All that needs to be done is create that opportunity, and there is without a doubt, plenty demand of products and services to provide just that. However, if only a select few are in control of the resources, human nature dictates that they will hoard the resources for themselves. All that needs to be done is control their ability to hoard so much as to negatively affect the community at large, and at the same time, let them reap the rewards of their unusually successful contributions.

Its just a matter of percentages, and in the end a few percentage points are the difference between the masses living productive lives with productive jobs, or living in squalor with no real opportunities for success. As is human nature the powerful are just using what they can to better their position, and they use their economic power, to enhance their economic situation. Unfortunately, that often comes at a price of negatively affecting everyone else's economic situation. For them, it really does come down to an extra amount of excess, and for the rest, their very quality of life, and for some, actual life or death.

So, government must simply adjust this balance, so that those at the bottom, have some opportunity, assuming they contribute what they can, and that those at the top, do not make it impossible for such an environment...which, is what has happened somewhat slowly, but very surely in this country, over the last few decades. Most didnt realize it, because there was plenty left over from the successes of a great environment, which was made possible, by the contributions of many, and without any doubt whatsoever, the government, and the organizations of labor forces nationwide. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, created wasted on the lower levels as well, making it too easy for people to be lazy once again, which created an environment which made it easier to move manufacturing overseas, to avoid such organizations, which has left us with the situation we have now.

But again. Nothing has fundamentally changed in the world. There is plenty of demand, and plenty of those who will provide supply of products and services. There always will be. We need only tap into the massive power available on this globe to achieve great things, and no one need sacrifice very much to make this happen.

SultanOfSurreal wrote:

b.k. barunt wrote:I don't think Hap missed the point and i damn sure don't need backup from you dearie. If you think Hap is one of the ultra rich i'd say you missed something - possibly cognitive thought. ROTFLMFAO!


Honibaz

where the hell did i say hapsmo was one of the ultra-rich

i am still waiting for an answer

dont leave me hangin bro

he did say "if"

Don't confuse him with little things like facts.


Honibaz

b.k. barunt wrote:Don't confuse him with little things like facts.


Honibaz

oh so you weren't making baseless assertions, you were making baseless insinuations

gotcha