Conquer Club

To be honest I've lost the count of the times it has been already discussed. And all the times it goes nowhere for obvious reasons.

I'll merge it with the "original" Tolkien maps thread in a couple of days, but for now I just move it to ideas, only to be sure Djenre will notice this post.

thenobodies80 wrote:To be honest I've lost the count of the times it has been already discussed. And all the times it goes nowhere for obvious reasons.

I'll merge it with the "original" Tolkien maps thread in a couple of days, but for now I just move it to ideas, only to be sure Djenre will notice this post.

Yes, I've noticed it but I'll ask you not to move it for a couple of weeks please.
If I can't get any copyright, I'll quit.

Thanks

You won't have much luck with it. The tolkien universe is surprisingly unotuchable. Steve Jackson ripped out his newborn infants heart with a spatula to get a chance to blaspheme against the estate of Tolkien. What you could do DJENRE, is make a map in French. The thing about copyright law is that it is International. The estate cares about Tolkien in English VERY MUCH, but ALL other languages are open game. If you don't believe me I present exhibit A: The Last Ringbearer by Kirill Yeskovv. Translated into a dozen European languages but never (officially) into English.

This discussion never goes anywhere. Well, here at least it is leading to the one of the best pieces of fancfic on the web.

If you can't get permission for a foreign language map, then you are doing something wrong, DJENRE

Copyright permission might be a difficult thing to get. We can't only change the names of the territories, because Middle Earth Enterprises still owns Middle Earth. Fair use encompasses spoofs, so I present to you: MUDDLED EARTH!
Since I have the artistic skill of a baboon and only ms paint, I dare not try to draw anything.
But we could do things like:
Mordor = Defendor, mocking the natural defences of mordor
Haradawaith = South-Of-The-Wreiths, because it is south of mordor
Dead Marshes = Undead Marshes
Mirkwood = Dankwood, Spiderwood, ect
Moria = Firia (Fire ia)
and so on...
I cant think of anything for Gondor, but once you have a continent named, you can get loose ends with things like: Southeast-of-Wreiths
After the names are changed, the only thing left to do is change the map. I love the gameplay of the LOTR risk, so, trying to keep gameplay same or similar, as well as maintaining spoofhood, we should exaggerate sizes, like such as bays, peninsulas, ect.
With all these things in place, everything should show to be fair use.

natty_dread wrote:

greenoaks wrote:

tkr4lf wrote:I'm just curious here. Was permission granted to use the Tamriel map? Because absolutely nothing really looks changed from the original source.

I'm guessing it was, but again, I'm curious to find out.

there is no mention of permission obtained in the map thread, nor was the question ever raised

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=358&t=1129&start=0

Yeah, that map was made in the crazy old first days of CC... Standards were way lower back then, and it may have slipped through the cracks.

So, assuming Bethesda Softworks found out about it, they could sue to have it removed or whatever? Not like I'm gonna go tell 'em or anything, I don't really care. I'm just curious, again.

greenoaks wrote:

natty_dread wrote:Yeah, that map was made in the crazy old first days of CC... Standards were way lower back then, and it may have slipped through the cracks.

that's what i thought as it was started way back in 2006

i read a lot of the posts and there was many comments re: how awesome that map was

i don't think it is, i have lost every game i've played on it

haha...same here, except for one, where I got a very lucky drop and took Skyrim on the first turn, plus had some n00b play from a few opponents. Beat a colonel as well in that game though, which thoroughly pissed him off.

Yes, I could make it in french if copyrights are just about English version but Im not sure of it

random num2 wrote:Copyright permission might be a difficult thing to get. We can't only change the names of the territories, because Middle Earth Enterprises still owns Middle Earth. Fair use encompasses spoofs, so I present to you: MUDDLED EARTH!
Since I have the artistic skill of a baboon and only ms paint, I dare not try to draw anything.
But we could do things like:
Mordor = Defendor, mocking the natural defences of mordor
Haradawaith = South-Of-The-Wreiths, because it is south of mordor
Dead Marshes = Undead Marshes
Mirkwood = Dankwood, Spiderwood, ect
Moria = Firia (Fire ia)
and so on...
I cant think of anything for Gondor, but once you have a continent named, you can get loose ends with things like: Southeast-of-Wreiths
After the names are changed, the only thing left to do is change the map. I love the gameplay of the LOTR risk, so, trying to keep gameplay same or similar, as well as maintaining spoofhood, we should exaggerate sizes, like such as bays, peninsulas, ect.
With all these things in place, everything should show to be fair use.

Well even if it is fair use parody, royalties must be paid. I certainly don't want the map that much to pay more for premium. If you do, that's fine by me lol.

@DJENRE: The copyrights are in every language. However, the Tolkien estate historically has only cared about English. I don't think there is a copyright on the Elvish script so you could do a map completely in elvish perhaps? Or in Klingon - then only total nerds could play!

DoomYoshi wrote:@DJENRE: The copyrights are in every language. However, the Tolkien estate historically has only cared about English. I don't think there is a copyright on the Elvish script so you could do a map completely in elvish perhaps? Or in Klingon - then only total nerds could play!

Lol.

Also, the fact that "tolkien has only cared about english" does not mean that we can infringe on the copyright on any other language. CC policy is no copyright infringement, period.

DoomYoshi wrote:Well even if it is fair use parody, royalties must be paid. I certainly don't want the map that much to pay more for premium. If you do, that's fine by me lol.

Nope. In 1994 the US Supreme Court unanimously that parodies can be a "fair use" of an original, requiring no permission or royalties

Here's another idea, could you use the names of places from one book in place of the names on a map from a separate book? For example, could the map be the same shape as, say, the Wheel of Time (that's pretty much my default series), but have the places be called things from LOTR?

isaiah40 wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:Well even if it is fair use parody, royalties must be paid. I certainly don't want the map that much to pay more for premium. If you do, that's fine by me lol.

Nope. In 1994 the US Supreme Court unanimously that parodies can be a "fair use" of an original, requiring no permission or royalties

it doesn't matter how many parodies we have someone new will think they have a brilliant idea for a map that noone has thought of before - a lord of the rings map.

greenoaks wrote:

isaiah40 wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:Well even if it is fair use parody, royalties must be paid. I certainly don't want the map that much to pay more for premium. If you do, that's fine by me lol.

Nope. In 1994 the US Supreme Court unanimously that parodies can be a "fair use" of an original, requiring no permission or royalties

it doesn't matter how many parodies we have someone new will think they have a brilliant idea for a map that noone has thought of before - a lord of the rings map.

But we don't have a lotr map. At least, of the entire middle earth. That is why you keep getting people trying to make lotr maps: no lotr map exists. Honestly, if you do have an lotr map, it looks nothing like an lotr map and should be accomplished

But we can't have a lotr map.

natty_dread wrote:But we can't have a lotr map.

Which is where the aforementioned parody comes in.

random num2 wrote:

natty_dread wrote:But we can't have a lotr map.

Which is where the aforementioned parody comes in.

Ok, you make a lotr map, but you change just enough stuff that it can't be accused of copyright infringement. But then it's not a "real lotr map" anymore. And again comes someone, posting to the foundry, "why doesn't cc have a lotr map"... and you get to be with us, explaining to the new guy, "we have lots of lotr maps, just none of them really uses the exact names from lotr" and... the circle will never end.

DJENRE wrote:

thenobodies80 wrote:To be honest I've lost the count of the times it has been already discussed. And all the times it goes nowhere for obvious reasons.

I'll merge it with the "original" Tolkien maps thread in a couple of days, but for now I just move it to ideas, only to be sure Djenre will notice this post.

Yes, I've noticed it but I'll ask you not to move it for a couple of weeks please.
If I can't get any copyright, I'll quit.

Thanks

Like I said previously, I'm going to merge this topic with the other.
I think it's clear we CAN NOT have a lotr map and if someone finds difficult to understand this thing, just enough to look the date of the first post.

Stop wasting your time guys.

[Merged] and [Locked]