Conquer Club

porkenbeans wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:I The less intellegent, among the human race, are followers of the mingy, (superstition). Its plain and simple. Science, NOT mingy, (religion) has brought us out of the dark. Where as, Religion, (mingy) has clung on hard to maintain itself.

A TRULY initelligent person must be able to look beyond what is poveable. In the past, this included such "crazy" ideas as creating a vehicle that would go underwater or up to the moon, serums to fight off diseases like small pox. It includes the insanity of reaching Everest's peak or sailing around the world. Sometimes it includes creating entire fully imaginary worlds... and sometimes it involves intense speculation about what is "out there" in the realm of the completely unproveable, such as God.

You don' t have to like or agree with all the answers, but you should at least acknowledge that folks can be thinking and intelligent .... and still disagree with you on this "God"/"Religion" thing.

Why dont you use that int. of yours and answer the pill question.

I suspect that you are hesitent to answer because you dont want to lie.

porkenbeans wrote:

Gregrios wrote:I believe you've already got my answer but in case you missed it, it's still no.

I dont believe you. Your arguement is backed into the corner. If you choose to take the pill, you are admitting that you dont really believe in god. You and I both know very well, that, All but the most craziest of you cult followers, Will indeed take the pill.

Why don't you take a look through my posts and see if I bullshit or not. Unlike you, most of the people here know that I'm as brutally honest as they get. All I can do is answer your question, the rest is out of my control.

porkenbeans wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:I The less intellegent, among the human race, are followers of the mingy, (superstition). Its plain and simple. Science, NOT mingy, (religion) has brought us out of the dark. Where as, Religion, (mingy) has clung on hard to maintain itself.

A TRULY initelligent person must be able to look beyond what is poveable. In the past, this included such "crazy" ideas as creating a vehicle that would go underwater or up to the moon, serums to fight off diseases like small pox. It includes the insanity of reaching Everest's peak or sailing around the world. Sometimes it includes creating entire fully imaginary worlds... and sometimes it involves intense speculation about what is "out there" in the realm of the completely unproveable, such as God.

You don' t have to like or agree with all the answers, but you should at least acknowledge that folks can be thinking and intelligent .... and still disagree with you on this "God"/"Religion" thing.

Why dont you use that int. of yours and answer the pill question.

I suspect that you are hesitent to answer because you dont want to lie.

And if you told the ''honest to GODs' truth'' ...Youwould pop the pill along ith the rest of us. A bitter pill to swallow for sure.

porkenbeans wrote: - Religion has been at war with Science since the dawn of mankind. Slowly chipping away at Religion with every ''proveable'' discovery and breakthrough. So, If a person gets sick, his ''faith'' in science, sends him to the doctor. He knows, without a doubt, that his ''salvation'' can be found, ...there. But, when it comes to death, well, Science has not, YET, advance far enough to fix that. He must, I conclude, rely on whats left of that OLD mountain known as Religion. And try as best he can to have ''faith'' and believe with out a doubt that his ''salvation'' can be found at the top of that great old mountain. If you question his belief, on his journey to the top, He will only glance back at you long enough to see if you've found the real salvation of conquering death. I wonder, what they would do, if science came up with a pill that would give immortality. ...Would they take it ?

I consider your entire premise flawed. Science is not at war with religion. In fact, many very brilliant scientists see religion as their guide, see science as a means to understand their religion better and religion as a means to understand science better ... both.

As for the pill issue... you deal with an earthly promise that will never come. But, if it did, it would not be heaven or in any way compare to religious immortality. My answer is "no".

Gregrios wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:

Gregrios wrote:I believe you've already got my answer but in case you missed it, it's still no.

I dont believe you. Your arguement is backed into the corner. If you choose to take the pill, you are admitting that you dont really believe in god. You and I both know very well, that, All but the most craziest of you cult followers, Will indeed take the pill.

Why don't you take a look through my posts and see if I bullshit or not. Unlike you, most of the people here know that I'm as brutally honest as they get. All I can do is answer your question, the rest is out of my control.

C'mon . Deprograming a brainwashed cult member is a very dificult thing to do, I am sorry, but I have the neither the time or the interest in doing so.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote: - Religion has been at war with Science since the dawn of mankind. Slowly chipping away at Religion with every ''proveable'' discovery and breakthrough. So, If a person gets sick, his ''faith'' in science, sends him to the doctor. He knows, without a doubt, that his ''salvation'' can be found, ...there. But, when it comes to death, well, Science has not, YET, advance far enough to fix that. He must, I conclude, rely on whats left of that OLD mountain known as Religion. And try as best he can to have ''faith'' and believe with out a doubt that his ''salvation'' can be found at the top of that great old mountain. If you question his belief, on his journey to the top, He will only glance back at you long enough to see if you've found the real salvation of conquering death. I wonder, what they would do, if science came up with a pill that would give immortality. ...Would they take it ?

I consider your entire premise flawed. Science is not at war with religion. In fact, many very brilliant scientists see religion as their guide, see science as a means to understand their religion better and religion as a means to understand science better ... both.

As for the pill issue... you deal with an earthly promise that will never come. But, if it did, it would not be heaven or in any way compare to religious immortality. My answer is "no".

Are you going to toss your children in that river as well ?

porkenbeans wrote:

Gregrios wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:

Gregrios wrote:I believe you've already got my answer but in case you missed it, it's still no.

I dont believe you. Your arguement is backed into the corner. If you choose to take the pill, you are admitting that you dont really believe in god. You and I both know very well, that, All but the most craziest of you cult followers, Will indeed take the pill.

Why don't you take a look through my posts and see if I bullshit or not. Unlike you, most of the people here know that I'm as brutally honest as they get. All I can do is answer your question, the rest is out of my control.

C'mon . Deprograming a brainwashed cult member is a very dificult thing to do, I am sorry, but I have the neither the time or the interest in doing so.

So in otherwords, you've just realized that your "fail-proof setup of a question" just blew up in your face. How's that foot taste?

porkenbeans wrote:And if you told the ''honest to GODs' truth'' ...Youwould pop the pill along ith the rest of us. A bitter pill to swallow for sure.

Maybe I just have more imagination than you.

This is a pretty old Science Fiction Theme. And, the answer is that preventing death does not create life.


I deleted my previous post on this, but I will say it (again) now.

We, just this morning, turned off some machines that were helping my father-in-law stay alive. IN a way, this has been a long time coming. He has been in slow decline for a few years. The "final straw" came when he could no longer hunt with his sons... a few years ago.

He is not yet dead, but it is just a matter of time. Were there procedures that might have prolonged his life a bit? Perhaps. The chances were not great. But, if successful, would they really have preserved his life? That is a definite "no".

So, his wife sat by his side, with his sons and I. We all talked, cried. We talked of memories, of things that might happen or would never happen ... and the pure mundane.
And the doctors shut off the machine. (not a heart/lung, but I don't want to get into more details).

I would not take that pill because I know, no matter how much it was able to preserve, it would not really and truly preserve my life.

porkenbeans wrote:Are you going to toss your children in that river as well ?

Now you are just being obstinate .. and rather idiotic.

I answered you, respectfully.

Science might prolong a body, but not life.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:Are you going to toss your children in that river as well ?

Now you are just being obstinate .. and rather idiotic.

I answered you, respectfully.

Science might prolong a body, but not life.

I am very sorry for your loss, I am not an un-carring or un-loving person. You may find it surprising that I was raised in the church. I even believe that Jesus lived. To me, the only words in the bible that are worth anything are the ones in red. If everyone followed the examples of the man know as Jesus, The whole world would become ...''HEAVEN''. At this time for you, and your family, (and the rest of the world) I would suggest the ''RED'' words. The best way to honor That forward thinking, great man, is to walk as he did. With love, kindness, forgiveness, And if you are ever in a situation where you dont know what to do, Just remember, The ''GoldenRule'' It just about covers everything that jesus was about.

"A sadist is merely a masochist who bases their conduct on the golden rule."

Think about it.

Hi PLAYER,

Sorry for your loss.

MeDeFe wrote:"A sadist is merely a masochist who bases their conduct on the golden rule."

Think about it.

Hmmm. It's certainly witty but not quite compelling.

It goes to show that the golden rule is a good place to start at, but not the ultimate moral guideline.

I'm sure that Christ would agree, given the commandment "Love one another as I have loved you". Ultimately we're called to reach a level at which we'd give our lives for love of humanity. Admittedly some folks never reach that, but since we're talking ideals I thought it was worth noting.

porkenbeans wrote:

Backglass wrote:QFT. although I would say it is easier than accepting the REALITY that life is finite and death certain.

I wonder, what they would do, if science came up with a pill that would give immortality. ...Would they take it ?

Oh the delicious irony. You guys should really get your story straight. Isn't that one of the key flaws with us religious people ? We don't agree? I suppose somebody's going to lecture me on how atheists don't need to agree unless it suits them, but Christians should always agree because dissention hurts their stance?

porkenbeans wrote:

Gregrios wrote: If God does exist while there's this pill, then it would be a no without question.

lol: I dont believe you. ......all but the most craziest of you cult followers, Will indeed take the pill.

Hey this game looks fun! Porky do you believe in God? ......LIAR! (oops sorrow I didn't wait for your response), but you know deep down you're really a devout believer. I can prove it if you were trying to further the atheist's cause you'd use some.....well.....um...facts? Perhaps?

porkenbeans wrote: And if you told the ''honest to GODs' truth'' ...Youwould pop the pill along ith the rest of us. A bitter pill to swallow for sure.

Hmmm. He doesn't believe in Omniscient superbeings, and yet......

Hey Santa! How many fingers am I holding up?

In all seriousness though, Even if there was no God, I wouldn't take your pill. As often as not when science gives us a benefit, humanity manages to screw it up.

Nuclear power? (substandard safety protocols, nuclear waste, and oh yeah....bombs)
Antibiotics? (superbugs)

So, just exactly how were you going to get around the Sun going Red Giant and the universe eventually ending (either in a great crunch, or eventual loss of energy from all stars).
Your immortality doesn't sound all that immortal, or haven't you thought that far ahead?

porkenbeans wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:Are you going to toss your children in that river as well ?

Now you are just being obstinate .. and rather idiotic.

I answered you, respectfully.

Science might prolong a body, but not life.

I am very sorry for your loss, I am not an un-carring or un-loving person. You may find it surprising that I was raised in the church. I even believe that Jesus lived. To me, the only words in the bible that are worth anything are the ones in red. If everyone followed the examples of the man know as Jesus, The whole world would become ...''HEAVEN''. At this time for you, and your family, (and the rest of the world) I would suggest the ''RED'' words. The best way to honor That forward thinking, great man, is to walk as he did. With love, kindness, forgiveness, And if you are ever in a situation where you dont know what to do, Just remember, The ''GoldenRule'' It just about covers everything that jesus was about.

Thank you. (though as of now, he is technically still here... I think the "waiting is the worst).

As for the golden rule,
I would say that about sums it myself ..

The problem comes when fallible human beings try to implement it.

PLAYER57832 wrote: As for the golden rule,
I would say that about sums it myself ..

The problem comes when fallible human beings try to implement it.

Amen

MeDeFe wrote:It goes to show that the golden rule is a good place to start at, but not the ultimate moral guideline.

Yes it is, All 10 comandments can be summed up with the ''G'' rule. If you learn anything from the story of Jesus. It need be the ''ONE'' rule. TREAT OTHERS AS YOU YOURSELF WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED. Simple, but oh so profound.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:Are you going to toss your children in that river as well ?

Now you are just being obstinate .. and rather idiotic.

I answered you, respectfully.

Science might prolong a body, but not life.

I am very sorry for your loss, I am not an un-carring or un-loving person. You may find it surprising that I was raised in the church. I even believe that Jesus lived. To me, the only words in the bible that are worth anything are the ones in red. If everyone followed the examples of the man know as Jesus, The whole world would become ...''HEAVEN''. At this time for you, and your family, (and the rest of the world) I would suggest the ''RED'' words. The best way to honor That forward thinking, great man, is to walk as he did. With love, kindness, forgiveness, And if you are ever in a situation where you dont know what to do, Just remember, The ''GoldenRule'' It just about covers everything that jesus was about.

Thank you. (though as of now, he is technically still here... I think the "waiting is the worst).

As for the golden rule,
I would say that about sums it myself ..

The problem comes when fallible human beings try to implement it.

I think its more like when fallible humans try to reason their way around it.

CrazyAnglican wrote:

porkenbeans wrote:

Backglass wrote:QFT. although I would say it is easier than accepting the REALITY that life is finite and death certain.

I wonder, what they would do, if science came up with a pill that would give immortality. ...Would they take it ?

Oh the delicious irony. You guys should really get your story straight. Isn't that one of the key flaws with us religious people ? We don't agree? I suppose somebody's going to lecture me on how atheists don't need to agree unless it suits them, but Christians should always agree because dissention hurts their stance?

porkenbeans wrote:

Gregrios wrote: If God does exist while there's this pill, then it would be a no without question.

lol: I dont believe you. ......all but the most craziest of you cult followers, Will indeed take the pill.

Hey this game looks fun! Porky do you believe in God? ......LIAR! (oops sorrow I didn't wait for your response), but you know deep down you're really a devout believer. I can prove it if you were trying to further the atheist's cause you'd use some.....well.....um...facts? Perhaps?

porkenbeans wrote: And if you told the ''honest to GODs' truth'' ...Youwould pop the pill along ith the rest of us. A bitter pill to swallow for sure.

Hmmm. He doesn't believe in Omniscient superbeings, and yet......

Hey Santa! How many fingers am I holding up?

In all seriousness though, Even if there was no God, I wouldn't take your pill. As often as not when science gives us a benefit, humanity manages to screw it up.

Nuclear power? (substandard safety protocols, nuclear waste, and oh yeah....bombs)
Antibiotics? (superbugs)

So, just exactly how were you going to get around the Sun going Red Giant and the universe eventually ending (either in a great crunch, or eventual loss of energy from all stars).
Your immortality doesn't sound all that immortal, or haven't you thought that far ahead?

The questions you pose are for our decendants to answer. But answer them they will. Imagine if we didnt die so young. Imagine an Einstien cellebrating his 2,000th. birthday. Imagine that we are just embreos still in the womb. Our true existence will start at our birth. The day we become immortal. The true learning will start there. And after we live hundreds of years, those questions will be answered. Of that I have ''Faith''. Faith in science not faith in what I wished were true.

porkenbeans wrote: The questions you pose are for our decendants to answer. But answer them they will.

Ah yes, because that line of reasoning has gotten us so far with our current problems hasn't it? National debt, etc.

porkenbeans wrote: Imagine if we didnt die so young. Imagine an Einstien cellebrating his 2,000th. birthday. Imagine that we are just embreos still in the womb. Our true existence will start at our birth. The day we become immortal. The true learning will start there. And after we live hundreds of years, those questions will be answered. Of that I have ''Faith''. Faith in science not faith in what I wished were true.

While I admire your faith in humanity (which is more accurately where you're placing it, rather than science) I have met quite a few humans. Good people for the most part, but fit objects of adulation and bubbly optimism? Nah, experience says that they are mostly as fallible as me. Though it seems that you wish we weren't......yet another bit of irony.

porkenbeans wrote:The questions you pose are for our decendants to answer. But answer them they will. Imagine if we didnt die so young. Imagine an Einstien cellebrating his 2,000th. birthday. Imagine that we are just embreos still in the womb. Our true existence will start at our birth. The day we become immortal. The true learning will start there. And after we live hundreds of years, those questions will be answered.

First, there is a HUGE differance between living even 2000 years and living "forever".
In either case, this was a popular Sci Fi theme in the 70's and the eighties. Kind of ran its course, but the basics are thus:

1. Probably it will be expensive. Who gets it, who doesn't and what of those who don't?
Once a few get it, they will naturally know more and be more powerful. IN some scenarios, the "rest" become slaves (more or less) or just disappear.

2. Resources are still limited. People die, people have kids ... life is a circle. Break that circle and either you quickly end up with overpopulation, or you end up with no kids ... both are undesirable to many.

3. As I eluded to earlier, just because life can be preserved, does not mean it will be a good life. It might seem wonderful to live to be 1000 .. or even 200, but what if the reality is not what we expect?

4. Even if the above are solved, you still have the question of plain boredom. Star Trek Next Generation brushed on this occasionally with the Q.

So, despite your claims, the real truth is that most of us probably don't want mortality. It is a case of "be careful what you ask for".

Of that I have ''Faith''. Faith in science not faith in what I wished were true.

Science is not faith, it is fact. BUT, the idea that science might be able to ultimately answer any question is a matter of some faith. In some cases, the answer requires more logic and little faith at all. I think most of us have faith that the sun will "rise" tommorrow (at least outside the polar circle ), but that is "faith" only in the technical sense. On the other hands, question such as you have posed ... whether science will ever provide extremely long lives... is very similar to religious beliefs/faith.

One thing I can say with almost absolute certainty ... it won't happen in our current lifetimes.

PLAYER57832 wrote: On the other hands, question such as you have posed ... whether science will ever provide extremely long lives... is very similar to religious beliefs/faith.

immortality.....the ability to shape the cosmos (as in avoiding the end of the Universe "solve them we will").....somehow curing all of the ills that face humanity in any situation. It does render some striking parallels, and all with no "proof" (but it's not a religion mind you)....hmmm....interesting.


So Porky, did you figure out the quote within a quote thing? It seems that you're uncomfortable with showing any real evidence to support any of your claims.

I believe that no person will live past 120.... None have done it yet and it shows in the Bible. So when you say extremely old think 120.

Japs wrote:I believe that no person will live past 120.... None have done it yet and it shows in the Bible. So when you say extremely old think 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

pwn.