[Official] Classic TOUCH-UP [Quenched]

[kjtocool]

Yeti,

We don't really care how it happens, we just want those silly white dots gone! They clutter the map, make it impossible to scan quickly, ruin the 'feel' of the map, give people headaches, and actually manage to make the map harder to read!

What's worse, they are totally static. Try imagining it for someone who's colorblind. Turning on the color codes leaves half the data in the silly circles and half of it outside the circles, it looks ridiculous, makes it so hard to read, and is just generally awful. CC can say that people never gave input all they like, but the last time they tried to add these circles the same thing happened, and they removed them.

Do you really think changing the opacity from 100% to 60% or 55% was going to end the fuss?

So to fix the situation we would be happy with any of the following:

1) Totally revert to the old classic map.
2) Make this new map an additional map option, and switch all old classic games back to the old map, thus letting people choose.
3) Keep the new map, but get rid of the circles from it.

We don't care what happens, just get rid of the circles.

[jiminski]

I actually do care .. i do not like the colour scheme either .. the gestalt feel of the changed map is shocking! it makes me wonder if Lack is mates with Stevie Wonder.

[keiths31]

This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.

[kjtocool]

You can't be serious?

Is it written in stone somewhere that we as members be forced to participate in all aspects of the site? Welcome to thinking at a 6th grade level, let me know how it works out for you in life.

[Kemmler]

[quote="keiths31"]This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.[/quote]

That's because now it's changed we really care.

It's ruining the gameplay.

[Dancing Mustard]

[quote="Dancing Mustard"]Forgive me for making light of the situation, but isn't this a bit of a storm in a teacup? Surely it's a fairly simple job to satisfy both camps without having to go to too much effort?

[b]Isn't there some way that the powers-that-be could be persuaded to either:[/b]
1. Host two versions of Classic, one that is, well... 'Classic'; and another that is shiny and new and looks as pretty as our photoshop fetishists can make it? Sure, it'd create two 'streams' of classic games as things stand, but surely the CC Software could gain an option that would allow you to search for 'old Classic', 'new Classic', and 'all Classic' games available (depending on how picky you were feeling).

2. Alternatively, and a bit more radically, isn't there some way that an option could be added to classic games to [b]allow users to toggle to their prefered settings[/b]? That way you could start a 'Classic' game, and immediately flick to whichever graphical setting you found least offensive. We can flick between big and small maps, so surely it must be possible to let 'Classic' players flick between ugly and pretty maps? After all, this is just an aesthetic change, so there's no gameplay-compatibility problems with letting each player choose their own 'Classic Skin', right?

I know that both options would create work for some of the higher-ups around here, but if this is going to be such a sensitive topic, then perhaps a little bit of hard work is in order to reach a sensible conclusion.

Anyway, that's my two pence; perhaps I've missed something vital that's been changed here, or perhaps I'm dreaming beyond the capabilities of the CC Software... but surely this can all be worked out fairly easily and without too much mudslinging?[/quote]
Did I ever get a sensible response to this, or did it get lost in this morning's bout of mudslinging?

[jiminski]

[quote="keiths31"]This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.[/quote]


you are not helping

[Qwert]

quote This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.
I say leave the new version.quote

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map. Rewamp of these map whas Anounce in General Discusion,and after that Rewamp is start. If you realy care,what thing will change in old version,you will go to see,but insted these,you dont go,and now you protest,and you have same right like all Map MAkers to participiate in Classic Rewamp,but you not take these rights.

[Ruben Cassar]

[quote="qwert"]quote This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.
I say leave the new version.quote

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map. Rewamp of these map whas Anounce in General Discusion,and after that Rewamp is start. If you realy care,what thing will change in old version,you will go to see,but insted these,you dont go,and now you protest,and you have same right like all Map MAkers to participiate in Classic Rewamp,but you not take these rights.[/quote]

This is the kind of mentality that will get us nowhere. I feel like I am back in primary school. As already iterated many times in the various threads only a small portion of the people playing CC visit the foundry. Granted it does not help the map making process but the people who play the maps have the final say and they do not like the new Classic. What the heck there are people who pay to play this game and they want to play the old Classic. These people cannot be ignored.

Come on Qwert don't you see that there is something wrong with this revamp? Or else why would hundreds of people who usually don't give a damn about map making start posting complains? We cannot continue pressing on with the ready made phrase "they should have checked the foundry while the map was being revamped so their opinion does not count".

And please stop making this an issue of map makers vs gamers because it's not...

[wicked]

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map.

This is what we're now trying to ascertain qwert. Let's keep the convo moving forward about where to go from here, instead of backward.

Is it JUST the issue with the bright white circles that is the main complaint here? The other changes are ok? Meaning the new orange Aussie and name placement changes and such?

(and why do quotes work for me but not anyone else? odd)

[jiminski]

[quote="qwert"]quote This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.
I say leave the new version.quote

I dont understand,why people now dont like with new Classic map. Rewamp of these map whas Anounce in General Discusion,and after that Rewamp is start. If you realy care,what thing will change in old version,you will go to see,but insted these,you dont go,and now you protest,and you have same right like all Map MAkers to participiate in Classic Rewamp,but you not take these rights.[/quote]


Qwert, let's try and solve the problem and also accept that there is something fundamentally wrong with the process when it comes to 'Changes and Updates'. The majority evidently care very deeply about what is done to the maps and they were simply not aware that changes were being made.

This is not everyone just trying to make work for map makers and then being prissy ... the simple fact is that we did not know!
there has to be an elemental problem with the 'advertising' of such a change.

Moving on from that ,are some of the suggestions workable?

[cena-rules]

I LIKE IT

[Ditocoaf]

This is a classic example of what happens when people don't check out all the forums. This map had been in the foundry for quite a while with many positive reviews. Now that it has been changed there is a mass cry out about it. If people had looked in the Foundry months ago they would have been aware of what was going on.

I say leave the new version.

The mapmaking community feels neglected and ignored as the larger part of the community refrains from visiting the foundry and reading the threads. Like an ignored child, they decide to lash out, do something that will cause us to sit up and take notice! That'll teach the community to not visit the foundry! If we don't like what they're doing, then we should be here all the time, scanning each of the threads. Finally, the mapmaking sub-community will have the attention they crave!

[Pedronicus]

I gave up looking in the map foundry a long time ago. I kept asking for people to stop making maps. All I wanted was a total overhaul of the classic map, with America to be more yellowy, and the map to stop looking like a pixelated nighmare.

I wanted a beautifully drawn map with the exact same layout. It's the most played map - so it should be the most polished map available.

An Italian restaurant with a piss poor Tomato Sauce, isn't going to be a success. The classic map is this sites 'Tomato Sauce'

Make it beautiful or don't bother changing a thing and keep it as an unchanged classic design, that will gain love over 10 ten years life, looking even more old fashioned with each year & gaining appreciation for the fact that it never changed from day one.

[T7]

Lots of people don't check the map foundry. Lots of people come here JUST TO PLAY RISK.

Wicked is right - the problem exists, it's obvious - there's a huge uproar... and if another website made a classic map with the functionality of CC's interface, I would quit CC and join that other site.

So, it's a serious problem. Lets deal with the problem please before someone does make that new site and CC loses a proportion of it's income and support. I like CC, I don't want to see that happen regardless whether it's in five weeks or five months...

SO... the problems...

IMPORTANT...

1. The white dots are far too bright, they shouldn't really exist at all - or if they do, they should be unnoticable (rather than glaringly obvious).

2. The key in the bottom left corner is comical - it looks CHEESY. The classic map had a lot of grace about it... this cheesy key does not belong.

NOT SO IMPORTANT...

3. The new territory lettering is not too bad, but when I say that I mean it's not 'terribly' worse, it's just a little worse. The old lettering was fine - it's the classic map, we've all been playing it. Familiarity is something that creates culture... spelling it out (or highlighting) does not create culture. The territory names don't need to stand out more than they did on the original classic map.

4. Have "waves" been added / highlighted? Like somebody has dropped a pebble into the "water" that is the ocean? Not in perspective and completely unnecessary.

At a minimum, people should be able to choose between the classic and the "Classic". One is the classic, the other one is *named* classic... big difference.

[RjBeals]

So people would really leave the site cause the white army circles are too bright? Thats a little ridiculous. Have you seen the other risk sites? They blow in comparison.

[T7]

Sure they would, if there was a viable alternative.

There isn't a viable alternative. But this map... this is where those things start.

Lets work forward...

- Make this map so a large proportion of CC isn't in uproar about it, or...

- Give people an option of old or new classic.

[lewdog]

First of all, what is the foundry? I go to this site to play risk not foundry or forum the forge. The new map sucks. maybe I will get use to it, but as of now I think it is worse and it's all because of those stupid circles. The circles are very distracting every time I look at it I just think that sucks. I really hate looking at it because it's not a map anymore it's just circles.

[firstholliday]

Nowbody knows where to look and nobody cares. there are threads in callouts, announchements , gen discussion and map foundry. Nobody gives %^&*** they are here to play games. and it is here now 24 hours, combined in all threads arround a 1000 people have complaint.


my english may suck. but you people are dumb. i can learn how to suck. but once dumb allways.......

[equalpants]

It seems to me that the biggest problem with the circles is their high contrast with the rest of the map. The Classic map is really dark; there are plenty of maps where the entire map is about the same brightness as these circles (Middle East, Scotland), and I don't find them hard to read. Maybe the overall brightness of the map could be increased, while darkening the circles slightly? This might keep the troop numbers readable, by increasing their contrast with the map, while also making the circles stand out less.

[T7]

Why try to unscramble an egg?

The old map was fine. It was dark, mysterious, classic, well known and loved.

[Ray Rider]

Lots of people don't check the map foundry. Lots of people come here JUST TO PLAY RISK.

SO... the problems...

IMPORTANT...

1. The white dots are far too bright, they shouldn't really exist at all - or if they do, they should be unnoticable (rather than glaringly obvious).

I agree--my biggest peeve is those white circles. I say make a map exactly like the real classic risk map, and have this new one as a "Revised Classic" or something. But bring back the real classic!! Please? I mean, it's not serious enough that I'd quit CC, but it is an annoyance.

[firstholliday]

no use at all. jiminski posted this thread in the spanking monki's forum. i had to use the link to come here...


people don't look for it jobs...... they wanna fight kamchatka in the right corner pocket!!!

[InkL0sed]

Instead of complaining about how the Foundry works, why don't you guys just, you know... make it better? Maybe with a little more participation? That would be helpful.

[MajorRT]

I think it will be up to Lack to fix (or veto) this ; it looks like certain mapmakers are set that the new map is better but the vast majority disagrees and are going blind from the brightness..........................Pres. Bush is unpopular by the same approval rating and we can't do much , but maybe someone here will listen...............