Arms Race! [Quenched]

Night Strike · Post by **Night Strike** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:28 am

What if Warhead's one-way attacked the base of the missile?? I think that would be better than bombarding all parts of it.

EDIT: 2nd Idea. What if the missile's could one-way attack the opposing bunker? It would be like a bunker-buster missile and would allow one player to move from one warhead, through the bunker, to the other warhead.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:06 am

But then you could go through the bunker to the rest of the country...

The bottom of the missile would be better... as that is a dead end...

C.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:14 am

Night Strike wrote:What if Warhead's one-way attacked the base of the missile?? I think that would be better than bombarding all parts of it.

EDIT: 2nd Idea. What if the missile's could one-way attack the opposing bunker? It would be like a bunker-buster missile and would allow one player to move from one warhead, through the bunker, to the other warhead.

I think this might be the best option. But here are teh two issues.

1) Missile would not transport troops, which is why I don't think they should be able to attack but just bombard. Plus it is harder to write in the legend due to the increase in text.

2) The only other option is to allow them to bombard each other. I still don't like that but I am leaning that way more because it is easier to write in the legend and is the best solution with the current XML.

Basically we need to find a way to kill trapped armies in the missile if only the missiles are occupied. The only way this can happen is by allowing the missile launch territory to bombard all enemy territories.

SO that is what I will do. #2 wins

WM

Ogrecrusher · Post by **Ogrecrusher** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:44 pm

Or if all armies on the missle decay to neutral, everything would be fine!

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:05 pm

Ogrecrusher wrote:Or if all armies on the missle decay to neutral, everything would be fine!

But then every turn the missile starts back at neutral and there really is not an "Arms Race" to speak of. The missile might as well be 1 territory and start with 6 neutrals every turn.

Bad idea.

The missiles have 6 territories so that other players can see the buildup of power. A player getting closer and closer to NUKE status.

Plus then no one would ever get the bonus due to the fact that on their turn the missile would reset and the +25 condition would never get met.

WM

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:19 am

So basically the map will allow the missile launch territory to attack ANY opposing territory. That is, any territory the other country can control.

ok here is what I plan on making the legend say

Legend will read
<Spies can bombard foreign: symbols
<Silos can attack the launch platform of same countries missile
<Missile Launch: can bombard any opposing territory
<A players armies, on Missile Launch, decay to 1 at start of turn.

And I will turn the Head of State back to president

Once this is done I will post it and work on XML. I am pretty sure that is all that is left to do then

Speak up please if you disagree with anything. Thanks

WM

Forza AZ · Post by **Forza AZ** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:22 am

What about this:

-Missile Lauch can one-way attack enemy Silos
-Silos cannot attack the city's the are connected to (only attacked from it). Something like a safety to prevent the city's be infected by radiation from the silo.

This way you won't have to have a missile-missile attack, and still can take out territories on the enemy missile by going through one of the silos. And you also can't invade the enemy country from your missile (except for the silos).

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:38 am

Just FYI

I will be gone for 2 weeks and might not be able to do anything on CC. I am definitely not going to have access to photoshop but I am not sure about access to CC. We shall see.

So see you in a few everyone.

WM

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:36 pm

Well I worked on the XML but have no waz to upload it rigth now I like forza's idea:

-Missile Lauch can one-way attack enemy Silos
-Silos cannot attack the city's the are connected to (only attacked from it). Something like a safety to prevent the city's be infected by radiation from the silo.

I am going to update it the legend and XML to that. Plus adjust teh images.

I will probably have this ready in about 10 days (7 till I get back to USA and 3 to find time to finalize.

WM

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:47 am

OK I am back. I got the XML done but there are some weird issues.
I can't seem to figure it out. Here is the XML
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/15/ ... %21_04.xml

and here is the issue

Code: Select all

line 16: <component>Seaborg</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 29: <component>Seaborg</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 45: <component>Seaborg</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 62: <component>Seaborg</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 80: <component>Seaborg</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 99: <component>Seaborg</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 121: <component>USA Uranium 1</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 134: <component>USA Uranium 1</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 150: <component>USA Uranium 1</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 167: <component>USA Uranium 1</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 185: <component>USA Uranium 1</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 204: <component>USA Uranium 1</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 226: <component>USA President</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 233: <component>USSR President</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 242: <component>USA Launch Code</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 249: <component>USSR Launch Code</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 258: <component>USA President</component> - Did not expect element component there

line 274: <component>USSR President</component> - Did not expect element component there

I will try to get the graphics for the maps finished asap as well.

WM

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:39 am

Continents no longer have "<component>" tags...

You need to change it to <territory> (or indeed <continent> if you are using subcontinents)

C.

Keredrex · Post by **Keredrex** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:40 pm

not sure if this was explained in the thread and didn't feel like reading The whole Thing......

.... The Missle Launch DECAY - does that mean, the top of the missle decays to 1 unit ... Which means if you own it and now you have 1 man there you can't attack from it again..... since you would have to fort men there to use next round but decay would negate this.... Or does it become 1 Neutral?

Also, Does it Decay down the whole Missle to the bottom

TaCktiX · Post by **TaCktiX** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:15 pm

I suggest the small semantic change to USSR Premier. True Soviets should respect their ruler.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:12 pm

OK here is version 12.

-I fixed the president/premiere issue. They are now both represented.
-Better explanation for the MISSILE LAUNCH decay
-Made the bonus easier to read (yellow)
-Better explanation for how to get the +25 NUKE bonus
-Explained how silos 1 way attack the launch platforms
-MISSILE LAUNCHES now BOMBARD Everything (except other missile) and attack the opposite silo.
-Surrounding cities can attack the silos but the silos cannot attack back (arrows on map)
-XML should be OK, only needs the coordinates for the territories.

XML: (coordinates are not done)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/15/ ... %21_12.xml

Incandenza · Post by **Incandenza** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:02 am

Seems like the arrow from washington DC to silo 2 could be more distinct... as it stands, it's kinda lost in the radar sweep.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:02 am

USSR Premier - is called USSR President in the XML... otherwise it looks good (from a cursory check)

C.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:25 am

yeti_c wrote:USSR Premier - is called USSR President in the XML... otherwise it looks good (from a cursory check)

C.

Fixed

Incandenza wrote:Seems like the arrow from washington DC to silo 2 could be more distinct... as it stands, it's kinda lost in the radar sweep.

Fixed

Other than these two issues, are there any others?

Graphics?
Gameplay?
XML?

If not then can I assume once the coordinates are doen this map is finished?

Thanks for all of the input everyone.
WM

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:20 pm

Glad to be back in the Foundry Front...and this map is looking great.

Possibly one of my favorite visual maps in this next batch of maps. It's on the last stretch!

--Andy

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:40 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Glad to be back in the Foundry Front...and this map is looking great. Possibly one of my favorite visual maps in this next batch of maps. It's on the last stretch!

--Andy

Thanks. Just wait till Iceland gets here. I think that will be one of the best looking maps we have on the site.

WM

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:41 pm

Indeed...that is also one of my favorites...nearly forgot!

--Andy

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:38 pm

WM,

Here are my final thoughts.

I am questioning the wisdom of all the work-arounds and 'fixes' to prevent unwinnable games.

I think the best and most elegant solution is to have the missile launch be able to bombard ANY foreign territory, including missile. This would eliminate the need for the one way silos and the cumbersome and bloated legend text.

Besides beating your oponent, the point of the game is launch a nuclear strike. As always in the nuclear game, its the first strike that counts, and only the first strike. The damage done by a +25 first strike would be devastating so I don't really see a point in having the missiles themselves be off limits. It's not like a player can limp along for a few turns and mount a comeback here, once a nuke is launched its all down hill, and rather quickly.

The downside to this is the possibility of a player launching non nuclear bombardments against an opponents missile. But there is really no point to doing so from a game play point of view. Sure such a bombardment would disable nuclear capability for an opponent, but in order to do that, one has to get all the way up the 7 stages of their own missile. To accomplish the same goal of crippling an opponents nuclear capability, all a play has to do is use a spy to take out the president or launch codes.

With FULL bombardment launches you can have winnable games without all the silly rule 'patches'.

I wasn't following the development of this map as closely due to other projects but at some point at long the way this map deviate from the original intention of having a quick, intense, and simple map to play. Can someone more familiar with the development tell me just why all these extraneous rules were added?

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:32 pm

Mibi,
the entire purpose of changing the rules was to eliminate the ability for a missile to bombard another missile. By having the MISSILE LAUNCH be able to attack teh other silos, the game will not "lock up" and players will not be trapped.

If you want to have missile attack missile it will eliminate some of the wording and also remove the issue of a "player trapped" game.

Since it is your map idea I will do what you ask. And since that is MISSILE can BOMBARD everything, I will update the map and edit the XML when I get to the coordinates.

Glad you got in here when you did, I would not want you to be disappointed with your own map idea.

WM

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:05 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Mibi,
the entire purpose of changing the rules was to eliminate the ability for a missile to bombard another missile. By having the MISSILE LAUNCH be able to attack teh other silos, the game will not "lock up" and players will not be trapped.

If you want to have missile attack missile it will eliminate some of the wording and also remove the issue of a "player trapped" game.

Since it is your map idea I will do what you ask. And since that is MISSILE can BOMBARD everything, I will update the map and edit the XML when I get to the coordinates.

Glad you got in here when you did, I would not want you to be disappointed with your own map idea.

WM

thanks for the update. I just don't feel that the missile-bombarding-missile s enough of an issue to complicate the game play and legend. thanks for making changes.

rgbubba · Post by **rgbubba** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:20 pm

I like the map, can't wait to play it!

lanyards · Post by **lanyards** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:19 pm

Dealing with Arms Race! XML:

At the beginning of the XML, the small map width needs to be 600, and the large map width needs to be 800, for that is the actual size of the current maps.

Why not in the XML call the leader of USSR "USSR Premier"? On the map the territory is labled "Premier", and it is also like that in the legend.

USSR Uranium 2 needs a neutral tag.

In your XML, there is a territory "Norbisk", and there is no such territory on your map. I think you meant to put "Noril'sk" which is on your map and not the XML. They have the same borders.

Is there a reason that the USA and USSR MISSLE LAUNCH have a -238 bonus? I know that the army count is supposed to go down to 1, but a -238 bonus will show up in the log. It doesn't really matter that much, but could it be changed to -500?

Other than these, all that is left is the coordinates and whatever changes need to be made if there are more updates.

--lanyards