Page 10 of 22
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:31 pm
by Dmunster
jako wrote:Dmunster wrote:jako wrote:if the arrows attacking britain are only bombardment arrows that can only destroy but not conquer the terr, then how ar u suppose to conquer terrs in brit from france or germany?
LoL. Doh!
uhh.....
real nice answer to my question, care to expand?
I was just realizing the same thing myself, not trying to answer yer question momo.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:34 pm
by Dmunster
My question is: What happens to the bombarded territory after its defeated? A zero appears there? A neutral? I dont see how that will work.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:40 pm
by Coleman
Dmunster wrote:My question is: What happens to the bombarded territory after its defeated? A zero appears there? A neutral? I dont see how that will work.
Bombardments are still pretty new and I applaud qwert for trying to incorporate it, even if he ignored my bonus post in the vote.
Anyway, to answer your question a neutral army of 1 appears on the territory. As yeti has put it, these are rebel fighters who were suppressed by the previous player's standing army.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:04 pm
by Dmunster
Coleman wrote:Dmunster wrote:My question is: What happens to the bombarded territory after its defeated? A zero appears there? A neutral? I dont see how that will work.
Bombardments are still pretty new and I applaud qwert for trying to incorporate it, even if he ignored my bonus post in the vote.
Anyway, to answer your question a neutral army of 1 appears on the territory. As yeti has put it, these are rebel fighters who were suppressed by the previous player's standing army.
Right, I just read through 11 pages of broken english to find that out.
I was looking at qwert's sig and it doesnt have th enorthern countries bombardment arrow represented. That wouldnt work obviously.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:08 pm
by Dmunster
As it is, that option completely demeans the three stars bonus. Considering the star country its self will be a neutral only two players even have a chance at attaining the bonus. I havent even seen anyone get the three stars in eastern yet and I love that map.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:11 pm
by Qwert
even if he ignored my bonus post in the vote.
Coleman can you tell me page number where you put bonus post?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm
by Qwert
Coleman
Britian 2
France 5
Vichy France 4
Western Germany 3
Siegfriend Defence 5
North Italy 2
I find but these been in colour issue,and before bombardment all britain,and you not upload these sugestion,also these been before i conect toulouse with western task force.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:10 pm
by Coleman
Yeah my bonuses suck in retrospect. I probably would have changed them to option A or D.
britain untouchable ? HUGE mistake !
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:07 am
by lt_oddball
Whatever the grounds for it to be found in 1944, but I think it is a mistake to not allow players to be able to invade britain from the continent.
It is supposed to be a boardgame after all. Not something historically accurate !(who are the up to 6 warring groups anyway?..)
Now, whomever takes Britain from the early start is comfortably holding an UNTOUCHABLE bonuszone. That means bonus accumulations turn after turn WITHOUT the need for placing new DEFENSEarmies on its borders. You could leave them 3 time 1 armies.. and deploy ALL your armies elsewhere.
That alone should mean NOT awarding a bonus to the Britain zone at all !!
.
.
EDIT: I read only now that bombardments can knock out a standing army so that a defense is necessary.
However the top Britain land stays untouched, so that that player there ALWAYS has a claim on the britain bonuszone and NONONE else.
This is an unhealthy and unfair (all players equal opportunity) situation.
PLease give it an invasion opportunity!
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:46 am
by onbekende
option C
however, people thrown out of england are screwed and will never win. How on earth is that a fair game?
major error...!
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:54 am
by lt_oddball
Another thing, if there are two players left and the better player has ALL the continent lands, and the loser is stuck in that one british land in the top (out of reach of bombardment) then there can never be a conclusion of the game !!
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:14 am
by Sven Hassel
every territorie in britain can be bombarded look carefully.
the more i look at it..the more i see
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:14 am
by lt_oddball
I like this setting and I support you for continuing with it greatly, but there are many strange/ faulty things:
1) I mentioned the british untouchable bonuszone.
2)Why has the siegfried bonuszone lands on both sides of an impassable border ? This is gamewise not clever/nice/logic.
3) historically the difficult/impassable borders were siegfriedline, Alps, rhine (from Switserland to Rotterdam as in swamped estuary in Zeeland in the west !). So what is this tankborder doing from the ardennes to Calais ? There was absolutely no hindrance in 1944 on that line.
4) Personally I find that Italy has no use in this map. The Alps (Like Austria) were -supposed to be- a too difficult hindrance . However, if you persist itshould get a place..then add bombardment runs over the Austrian Alps between Milano and munich. You have bombardments over the Canal..then it should be here too.
Otherwise both Germany and Italy are corner bonusareas.. and that gives players in these areas an important advantage (like Australia in the classic risk map !).
5) You mix up political zones (Vichy) with Armyzones (generals) and geographical zones (provinces)... better stick to one concept.
Voila my 2 cents
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:24 am
by onbekende
Sven Hassel wrote:every territorie in britain can be bombarded look carefully.
bombarded, not conquered, thus for me it tells me you ca knock some down there to 1 army and thats it
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:42 am
by DiM
onbekende wrote:Sven Hassel wrote:every territorie in britain can be bombarded look carefully.
bombarded, not conquered, thus for me it tells me you ca knock some down there to 1 army and thats it
bombarded means it leaves 1 neutral.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:53 am
by Coleman
How to make Britain work for you. (An early guide by Coleman)
Why hello there!
Is this your first time playing this map and you find most of your drops are in Britain? Well have no fear, Coleman is here to help explain to your puny mind that you aren't screwed and that instead you are, in fact, in a glorious and powerful situation.
Step 1 If you have any armies in Britain you should do your best to take Britain as quickly as possible. The bonus could be anywhere from 2 to 4 armies and for only 3 territories.
If you have any kind of luck at all you should have Britain and everyone else is still scrambling for other continents. You should now take comfort in the fact that nobody else can take Britain and nobody else can have the star bonus.
Step 2 Pool all of your armies to Marshal Park.
Yes you will be easy to break this way, but Marshal Park touches all the territories in Britain and is your only attack point out into the world. In addition, the only Bombardment into Marshal Park comes from France, which may very well be the hardest continent to take in this map. Nobody is going to want to waste their armies bombarding Marshal Park when they don't even have all of France. They gain nothing but your losing those armies. Most importantly, who would want to pool their armies to Brest Fortress? Besides attacking Britain and completing France this point holds no strategic value and if it couldn't attack Britain people would almost always leave 1 army here to defend borders more effectively. In fact they may still do this, especially when Siegfried breaks you nearly every turn.
Step 3 Start moving through France, but work on taking Siegfried. You should leave enough armies in Marshal park to take back any neutral 1s Siegfried leaves when they break you. 5 should be enough to discourage France from attempting to bombard you, and to retake both territories if necessary.
There are two reasons why you are going for Siegfried.
1) To make Bombardments against Britain a near impossibility.
2) Your only realistic alternative is France, and there is no way, even if the 4 bonus for Britain wins the vote that you could successfully take France and defend Britain from Siegfried bombardments. None.
Step 4 Continue as the game dictates. Make sure you never lose Britain and make Siegfried your secondary continent and you should win eventually.
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:21 pm
by Qwert
Nice story Coleman,its look same like some history chanell,and every these step is close to real situation on western front,holding Britain,moving to Sigfried line,and cut Belgium and holand for treat of bombardment,break sigfried line and finish war in germany.(and if you have luck,you will win in 1945 turns.)
Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:25 pm
by Qwert
lt_oddball
I like this setting and I support you for continuing with it greatly, but there are many strange/ faulty things:
1) I mentioned the british untouchable bonuszone.
2)Why has the siegfried bonuszone lands on both sides of an impassable border ? This is gamewise not clever/nice/logic.
3) historically the difficult/impassable borders were siegfriedline, Alps, rhine (from Switserland to Rotterdam as in swamped estuary in Zeeland in the west !). So what is this tankborder doing from the ardennes to Calais ? There was absolutely no hindrance in 1944 on that line.
4) Personally I find that Italy has no use in this map. The Alps (Like Austria) were -supposed to be- a too difficult hindrance . However, if you persist itshould get a place..then add bombardment runs over the Austrian Alps between Milano and munich. You have bombardments over the Canal..then it should be here too.
Otherwise both Germany and Italy are corner bonusareas.. and that gives players in these areas an important advantage (like Australia in the classic risk map !).
5) You mix up political zones (Vichy) with Armyzones (generals) and geographical zones (provinces)... better stick to one concept.
Voila my 2 cents
Well lets se,many question,and answer is....
1.You dont have untouchable bonuszone(Britain like you say)Because you can attack all british teritttory(bombardment)so these mean that if you want to hold Britain,you cannot leave only 1 army per terittory,and if you hold only britain and other player hold all continental terittory,you loose game.
2.3.If you read history then you heard for maginot line.I want to create map with to be more historicaly acurate,and people can have fun and learn something what dont know.
Germans use these line for defence.
4.Its look that you want to every country imposible to hold.I think that these concept of italy is good.Every map must have some country with more chance to conquer.
5.Like i say on begining,these map will be mix of all these,because you dont have all western front in battles,Vichy France whas political country(create by Germans)and when Ally start advancing ,and liberate Paris,germans dont defend Vichy,he leave and Vichy vhas conquer without any major battles.Army zones is in these part of map where last bigest battles fight(Maginot,Siegfried line and Western Germany)and North Italy(Ligurian Army and supreme German comander-last).
These map must have all these concepte,because battles is not fight in all corner of Europe.
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:34 am
by hulmey
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:46 am
by Coleman
Because we paid for everything.
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:07 am
by gimil
Coleman wrote:Because we paid for everything.
no you didnt you jsut charged a discount price
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:34 am
by Qwert
hulmey
Gret Britian held the Nazi's back and conquered Europe , so why u got american helmets in the legend
_________________
Ok,these is a valid sugestion,so i will put british helmet on britain bonus.
Re: WWII WESTERN FRONT(image-page 1) bonus value issue vote
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:12 am
by Coleman
Gnome wrote:Option A
Western Germany 4
Siegfried Defence 5
North italy 2
Vichy france 4
Britain 3
France 6
edbeard wrote:Option D
Western Germany 4
Siegfried Defence 5
North Italy 3
Vichy France 3
Britain 2
France 6
These look nearly identical and are winning, here's the differences:
Code: Select all
Continent A B
North Italy 2 3
Vichy France 4 3
Britain 3 2
I think the values these two options agree with should be the ones for the map, but where they are different we should maybe have another vote for each continent.
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:00 pm
by Norse
gimil wrote:Coleman wrote:Because we paid for everything.
no you didnt you jsut charged a discount price
No they didnt, they charged
us an extortianate price (that weve only just repaid)
f*ck it, who were we saving anyway? we were not going to be invaded, hitler had stated that "english blood is too precious to drop", he didnt have a problem with us, just the rest of europe.
We would have been fine, its just certain groups we were appeasing to in this situation, and unfortunatley, we were the only c*nts who paid for the privilege.
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:02 pm
by Norse
BTW nice map.
But can I point out one major flaw with it?
If Britain cannot be invaded (only bombarded) then whoever holds england will eventually win....ie. 2 players, one holds england, the rest hold the whole of europe, the one holding the whole of europe will never be able to kill the english holder, despite having the biggest advantage.
See what I mean? the game would go on forever.
