stahrgazer wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:stahrgazer wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:gen. asshole wrote:AZ is just doing what the feds dont want 2
Correction, they are doing just what the money behind the Republicans, most Democrats, Liberaterains, so-called "independents", etc don't want.
Not money;
votes.
It is truly amazing, for all you talk about "government takeovers" and conspiracies, you are truly naive. Money BUYS votes, because too many people just listen to what they are told, instead of thinking for themselves.
You are obviously no exception.
stahrgazer wrote:I'm tired of paying taxes for the sons and daughters of ILLEGAL immigrants (who are unlikely to pay their share of taxes, because that might get them CAUGHT) .
This is just plain false. The ones who decide not to pay taxes are the CITIZEN employers. Illegal aliens actually pay far more taxes than you think. People who come here come to work, they don't come to skip on taxes!
They're not paying their share of social security and income taxes (they can't; they're not registered properly to do so)
While some do work "without papers" entirely, many have them. In fact, the social security payments made by illegal immigrants represent a significant contribution to the fund in some areas. The thing is they will never be able to
collect.
And, when they don't pay these taxes, it is because the employer decides not to do so, is often hiring these people specifically so they will avoid those taxes.
stahrgazer wrote:and yeah, they're coming here to "work" taking jobs away from legal people - legal as in citizens and legal immigrants.
ALL immigrants come here to work (no quotes.. they typically work far harder than others, they HAVE to to keep their jobs!), the only difference is that these folks work for employers willing to skirt the law. And yes, they are skirting the law. They are skirting a law in order to feed their families, a law that many see as misplaced.
stahrgazer wrote:They still expect to use our hospitals, but there's no recourse toward getting any reimbursement for the services, which raises the costs to legal people.
This is an insurance and full coverage issue, not an illegal alien issue. They do recieve
emergency care and, again contrary to what is often stated, often do pay, in cash.
In fact, most go back to Mexico whenever possible for care, because the care down there (contrary to what many up north believe) can be quite good and is definitely far cheaper.
stahrgazer wrote: They use our roads, which are paid for through income taxes.
again, many DO pay, and when they don't, its because the employers choose not to do so. Also, income taxes are hardly the sole source of funding for those. You also have tolls, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, etc.. which they certainly do pay.
stahrgazer wrote:They use our schools, which are paid for through income and property taxes - which they're not paying because they'd be caught as illegal if they tried. and on down the line.
Again, most DO pay taxes, and again, when they don't the blame is on the employers, not those working. Second, this is one area where you have to look at the long term. NO ONE, no one at all benefits from having uneducated kids running around. The biggest issue is kids who come here young and then have little knowledge of Mexico, but are also not US citizens, able to go to college, etc. However, that gets complicated.
stahrgazer wrote:So, no, it's not false.
Yes, it is, though what you put forward are common arguments.
stahrgazer wrote:We can agree, however, that we need to ALSO crack down on citizens who employ illegals.
No, if you crack down on the employers seriously enough, then there just won't be a problem.
The exception are the drug dealers and so forth, but those cross-border criminals are cheering at this law, because now law enforcement are too busy taking up the easier, otherwise law-abiding folks to worry about the difficult to catch criminals.
stahrgazer wrote:I'll add one more: we should reopen Ellis Island or some version of it, to make the process for legally immigrating easier.
Most of the "processing" occurs before people even come here. The only get on a plane after having Visas, etc already. As for the rest... assylum seekers, those applying to extend their Visas or change to permanent status often wind up in jails, where they are often treated as bad or worse than thieves and murderers.
