Classic Cities Jakarta [Quenched]

[koontz1973]

Updated the small.
[bigimg]http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7453/jakartal.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8869/jakartas.png[/bigimg]

[RedBaron0]

The outline around your signature is very sharp and distracting, try and replicate what you've done with the title.

[koontz1973]

Sig sorted. Removed the outline completely as with the size, background and lighting difference, it was not coming together. For the title and previous sig, both where just a straight forward one pixel black outline. Had a play with the colours and size though.
[bigimg]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7453/jakartal.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8869/jakartas.png[/bigimg]

[Nola_Lifer]

I got to be honest here, don't like the texture at all and the map just seems to be floating in the air can you make it blend in better with the background at all?

[koontz1973]

I got to be honest here, don't like the texture at all

Sorry to here that. Not everyone will.

and the map just seems to be floating in the air can you make it blend in better with the background at all?

Thought I had it a few versions ago with different colours but the CB test ruled that out. The playable area has to be different enough to be distinguished from the background. With the new shading that was put on, people hated it, so in the end it got taken of. I am going to keep it as is.

[koontz1973]

Played around with the image a tad. It is now between the two previous ones with no shading and lots. Also the large sig has had a going over. Updated the CB tests in post one.
Large.
[bigimg]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7453/jakartal.png[/bigimg]
Small.
[bigimg]http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8869/jakartas.png[/bigimg]

Anything else oh mighty mod gods in blue.

[isaiah40]

Anything else oh mighty mod gods in blue.

Yes! Bring me the sacrificial virgin!

Your color blind tests have failed. For the first two results, Pusat, Barat Daya and Selatan colors are really hard to distinguish what is what. For the final result Pusat and Barat are hard to tell apart. These are on the main playable areas only. I think that maybe it would be a good idea to use the standard black borders between each bonus area, and edit the legend to say that the main rivers are impassible.

That being said, time to sticky this for now. Get those CB areas fixed and we can get this moved on.

[koontz1973]

Yes! Bring me the sacrificial virgin!

Sent via courier so you should get it some time over the weekend. Use her wisely oh mighty blue god.

CB test should now pass. Had to add some more pop to the map though. Hope that works for you.
Darkened the border rivers a tad to make the stand out more. Having the black looked wrong as they are the only ones on the map at that thickness. Having them at the same thickness as the rivers made them pop out too much and distracted from the map itself.
Added main river impassable.
[bigimg]http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7453/jakartal.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8869/jakartas.png[/bigimg]
[spoiler=CB Tests]

[/spoiler]

[isaiah40]

This looks a lot better now! Anyone else have any concerns? If not this will get stamped within the next 48 hours.

[AndyDufresne]

Adding a divider line (or space) between the rivers / reinforcement text might be worthwhile, so it doesn't seem like it all runs together in a sentence / mini-paragraph.


--Andy

[koontz1973]

A last little flurry for you Andy. Hope you like it.
[bigimg]http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/7453/jakartal.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8869/jakartas.png[/bigimg]

[y2manypbr]

Just a quick note from a color blind guy, love the map. (Perhaps not all color blind people will agree with my assessment, there are diff. types of color issues) Sometimes subtle colors are hard to tell the difference but you have defined the boundaries well. Also the key to the bonuses is easy to see, the areas are defined on the key as well and it is easy to determine what the bonuses will be worth. Very pleasant map to look at and very playable. Thanks, looks great.

[koontz1973]

Glad you approve. And hope to see you in the foundry more often.

[isaiah40]

Onward and upward!!

[koontz1973]

As always, thanks.

[natty dread]

This... is in the final forge?

Oh.

[natty dread]

The issues I brought up last time I posted here have not been addressed at all. Frankly, it looks like another mediocre map with shitty graphics has slipped through because no one really gives a bleep about it. If I were in charge here, I'd strip the graphics stamp and put this thing back in the main foundry to be developed properly. I'm not, so I'm just going to enter some criticism.


Firstly, the map image is a bland, ambiguous blur of similar colours - there's no contrast. It's like someone poured a can of mushroom soup on the table and arranged it into a map... The playable area gets lost in the middle of that sea of bland, drab colours. The lack of any outline, any kind of visual clues where the playable area begins makes it horrible to watch - your eyes aren't drawn towards it, in fact it's completely opposite, it attempts to slip away from your gaze.

And the canvas texture is too strong. It covers everything, and since there's no variation to it, it just increases the effect where the playable area gets lost. You also have all these odd diagonal lines that go over everything - what are they for? They don't look good, they're much too obvious.

The borders. Or should I call them rivers? The passable ones look a bit cruddy, like there would be pixelation if it weren't blurred and covered up by the ubiquitous texture. The impassable ones just look... bland, and they don't look like rivers at all - they're like pieces of smurf fecies lying on the sidewalk, waiting to be stepped on... why are the ends stubby? Didn't anyone tell you to make them taper down? And for both, their colours are totally clashing with the rest of the map - they don't fit in at all.

The title doesn't look like it belongs on. Why is the title more prominent than the playable area? It should be the other way around. Currently the only thing that draws my eye in this picture is the title. It shouldn't be like that.

Also, the bridges look like cat shit. I literally have to clean nuggets like that from our cat's litter box.


Well, that's about it - lots of things to fix but this can be salvaged... however; personally, at this point, I think it'd be easier to start over with the graphics and maybe think of a concept that's easier to execute with your skillset and available tools... but that's just my opinion.

[AndyDufresne]

The issues I brought up last time I posted here have not been addressed at all. Frankly, it looks like another mediocre map with shitty graphics has slipped through because no one really gives a bleep about it. If I were in charge here, I'd strip the graphics stamp and put this thing back in the main foundry to be developed properly. I'm not, so I'm just going to enter some criticism.


Firstly, the map image is a bland, ambiguous blur of similar colours - there's no contrast. It's like someone poured a can of mushroom soup on the table and arranged it into a map... The playable area gets lost in the middle of that sea of bland, drab colours. The lack of any outline, any kind of visual clues where the playable area begins makes it horrible to watch - your eyes aren't drawn towards it, in fact it's completely opposite, it attempts to slip away from your gaze.

I somewhat feel this way as well, and I think one or two others pointed this out as well previously.

And the canvas texture is too strong

I tend to agree.

The title doesn't look like it belongs on. Why is the title more prominent than the playable area? It should be the other way around. Currently the only thing that draws my eye in this picture is the title. It shouldn't be like that.

I think the title looks fine.


--Andy

[koontz1973]

I somewhat feel this way as well, and I think one or two others pointed this out as well previously.

Why should the map be made up of bright colours? We have other maps that are drab (as it has been said for this) with similar colours throughout. As for the playing area having a outline, it had one up to a couple of updates ago. Took it out to stop the floating map syndrome as pointed out by some. As for anyone mistaking the background for the playing area, I very much doubt any player will come in and say why the could not play the head of the statue. You go from a mass of colours to solid blocks of colour. They where a lot closer to the backgrounds colours in the past but with the CB test fails, brighter and different colours had to be found. These work.

I tend to agree.

The canvas texture may be a tad strong in some peoples opinion, and when this was pointed out by yourself and Nola_Lifer, it was made less so for the large (the small in peoples opinion was good). Right now, it is not bad and fits in with the maps style so it is going to stay.

I think the title looks fine.

--Andy

Thank you.

[natty dread]

Why should the map be made up of bright colours? We have other maps that are drab (as it has been said for this) with similar colours throughout. As for the playing area having a outline, it had one up to a couple of updates ago. Took it out to stop the floating map syndrome as pointed out by some. As for anyone mistaking the background for the playing area, I very much doubt any player will come in and say why the could not play the head of the statue. You go from a mass of colours to solid blocks of colour. They where a lot closer to the backgrounds colours in the past but with the CB test fails, brighter and different colours had to be found. These work.

No, this doesn't work. Also no one said the map should be made of bright colours. But the thing is you have no contrast between the playable area and the background. It's all a mess, an unrecognizable soup of colours. It's not intuitive to the players, it's not easy to look at. Functionality must be paramount when considering map graphics.

I told you this pages ago and you were just like "oh I'll fix this" but now I see this thing in FF and nothing whatsoever has improved.

You can divide a graphical work in 3 parts: background, primary elements and secondary elements. In the case of a map, the primary element is the playable area. Secondary elements are things like title, legend, etc. The primary element should be the thing that draws the eye, the thing that stands out most in the picture. This is not the case with this map, like I said - the most notable, most noticeable element in this picture is the title. Everything else just sort of blends together.

The canvas texture may be a tad strong in some peoples opinion, and when this was pointed out by yourself and Nola_Lifer, it was made less so for the large (the small in peoples opinion was good). Right now, it is not bad and fits in with the maps style so it is going to stay.

The canvas texture only worsens the problem with the overall look of the map. It doesn't look good because the map under it doesn't look good.

This thing needs a whole lot of work to become a good looking map. I think you also know that you can make this map look a lot better. It doesn't matter how much work you've put into this, only the end result matters. Seriously, this map is not FF quality and should be put back in the main foundry for some serious graphics rehaul, because in it's current state it is unacceptable.

[AndyDufresne]

I don't think I'd say it is unacceptable, but I think there is still room for improvement, which is what Final Forge is all about!


--Andy

[natty dread]

I don't think I'd say it is unacceptable

Well that's no surprise because you apparently don't really CARE about the foundry standards or ensuring that maps are made as good as they can be... after all, you'd rather push important maps through a special process behind closed doors so that it will be on the site FASTER, no matter the quality...

JUST SAYING.

I think there is still room for improvement, which is what Final Forge is all about!

No, the Final Forge is about making the Final tweaks to a map that it needs to be a good map. Ironing out the last wrinkles, fixing the last details and such. This map needs more than little details fixed, the entire composition of the image is just plain wrong. The map looks worse than the original Quad Cities map, when it first came to FF - and that map was required a complete redraw before it was accepted for beta. I think this is going to need the same.

[koontz1973]

I don't think I'd say it is unacceptable, but I think there is still room for improvement, which is what Final Forge is all about!


--Andy

Andy, thanks for your polite comments. As always, more than happy to work on the map if asked. Let me know what you want to see improved and will work on it.

[natty dread]

Truth hurts, sometimes.

[Nola_Lifer]

Have to agree with everything Natty has said here. I don't think this should be in FF either. With some work on the graphics it should be fine. Also, I am pretty sure most people don't know where Jakarta, so maybe so help there with the background, and Jakarta is an old Hindu part of Indonesia.