F400 Clan Ranking - Needs Repair

[Chariot of Fire]

Thanks mate, grateful as always for your dedication.

Question...How did TOP reach the top? I was only gone for 4 years and I know how hard it was to retain that #1 spot. This clan has almost no history yet *poof* there they are. Have they really beaten the best in any clan war or something similar? I'm just quizzical now as to how the system works (because I'd like to beat it).

[Yynatago]

Question...How did TOP reach the top?
...
Have they really beaten the best in any clan war or something similar?

We arrived with a bang and kept at it. Our leadership did an excellent job bringing together some quality players fit for a top niche competitive clan, and thanks to these players and PaulAtPeace's tireless work behind scene we won our first Clan League CL7 2nd Division against some tough competition, and we were pretty close to winning the premier league for CL8, too, coming 2nd. So yes, we beat the best of them and we're doing our darnest to do it again

[Chariot of Fire]

OK, so no really tough competition then. The 2nd tier of CL7 and a short format CL8 in which you were runners-up to S&M. That's why I don't get how this ladder works. You're not a better clan than S&M yet somehow you leapfrogged to pole position. Seems a bit naff tbh, sorry.

[IcePack]

Question...How did TOP reach the top? I was only gone for 4 years and I know how hard it was to retain that #1 spot. This clan has almost no history yet *poof* there they are. Have they really beaten the best in any clan war or something similar? I'm just quizzical now as to how the system works (because I'd like to beat it).

OK, so no really tough competition then. The 2nd tier of CL7 and a short format CL8 in which you were runners-up to S&M. That's why I don't get how this ladder works. You're not a better clan than S&M yet somehow you leapfrogged to pole position. Seems a bit naff tbh, sorry.

Hey CoF
As you might remember, F400 is centric to performance. So its not about did they beat the top clan or two or three (like a leap ladder might, which we also have / keep updated each quarter) in where you must beat the top clan to get to the #1 spot.
In this case, taking a look at TOP's history:

https://www.conquerclub.com/public.php? ... ClanId=185

Keep in mind, for CL's you take the combined scores of the two sets. When you look at it from that perspective, TOP has won 5/5 wars (one being OSA, the other being FOED, both top 5/10 clans at the time)
They had two of their first wars, and won them pretty well. RET is just outside a top 10 clan so for a brand new clan, that was a strong opponent for a new clan and a big win.
Then they went thru CL and soundly won CL SD. Yes, it was second division, but for a starting clan to win 14-2's etc is not "expected" performance. They didn't have a single loss when you combine the sets like F400 does.
Then the next year, they won the next three wars (two of three from what I remember stronger clans as mentioned above) and also performed above expectations.
Then they went thru CL PD and vs all the top clans, still managed not to have a single loss on their combined set record.
I just looked at this years, and seems like they still (while have ties) do not have a loss on the CL record so far.

They skipped the cup, so at this point the only new entries for them are the league unless they do other pick up wars etc.
The first loss will likely have an impact on their score as well, but currently they just don't have one.

Hope that helps.

[rockfist]

They dropped out of CC7. They would've played S&M in the quarter finals of that competition, for the right to play against us in the semi-finals, for the right to play Fallen in the finals. Few people think they would've made it through that gauntlet to claim the title, but if they did, they surely would've had a very good claim to being the best.

With their low weight, their first round and second round results in CL will drop their score quite a bit.

I really don't look at the F400 score as being definitive about who the best is, it tends to lag results a bit. It is a good starting point, but if you start and end there without going anywhere else you are apt to get it wrong.

[niMic]

OK, so no really tough competition then. The 2nd tier of CL7 and a short format CL8 in which you were runners-up to S&M. That's why I don't get how this ladder works. You're not a better clan than S&M yet somehow you leapfrogged to pole position. Seems a bit naff tbh, sorry.

wtf I love CoF now?

[rockfist]

Question...How did TOP reach the top?
...
Have they really beaten the best in any clan war or something similar?

We arrived with a bang and kept at it. Our leadership did an excellent job bringing together some quality players fit for a top niche competitive clan, and thanks to these players and PaulAtPeace's tireless work behind scene we won our first Clan League CL7 2nd Division against some tough competition, and we were pretty close to winning the premier league for CL8, too, coming 2nd. So yes, we beat the best of them and we're doing our darnest to do it again

Isn't this self contradictory?

[Chariot of Fire]

OK, so no really tough competition then. The 2nd tier of CL7 and a short format CL8 in which you were runners-up to S&M. That's why I don't get how this ladder works. You're not a better clan than S&M yet somehow you leapfrogged to pole position. Seems a bit naff tbh, sorry.

wtf I love CoF now?

Thanks. I'm a changed man.

And thanks Ice for the explanation. I guess it was similar to TOFU's quick ascendancy in its formative years. I think it helps being a new clan without any track record or handicapping. It is a bit misleading though and it gets the most prominence, so anyone looking to join a clan would assume "Hey TOP are the best" which I don't think is the case when we've clans such as S&M and a few others. THOTA used to say this about TOFU "You can't be the best until you've beaten the best" which probably explains why they dodged my many challenge requests

[IcePack]

I definitely think as rock (?) stated, F400 is a solid indicator of performance. But early results are always weird, winning vs the best or near the best in a War is the best way to legitimize a claim to the top position.
But there are some protections to try keeping things in line, F400 minimum weight is there to make sure they have a few wars under the belt before showing up.
The clan tab has a 10 war minimum before you are “included” in the regular sorting order.
Some of these help, but one system is perfect. We try to provide multiple sources of info (leap ladder, F400 1 year and 2 year, F41, F12, etc each quarter) so that clans have a wide representative source of info to use.

I hope to have another big clan stat update in January Platoon Report like we did last January (if you haven’t checked that one out where I teamed with Josko, you should go look)

This one I teamed with groovysmurf and is a different look at historical clan information that is pretty fun and interesting. I try to do something new / big each January

[josko.ri]

to defend TOP a little bit, they never lost a single war even small war of 16 games in CL. And they have played about 20 bigger or smaller wars in last two years. That is maybe key in their success.

[rockfist]

Fair enough. I still wouldn’t have bet on them to win Cup though. You guys were beastly.

[Chariot of Fire]

to defend TOP a little bit, they never lost a single war even small war of 16 games in CL. And they have played about 20 bigger or smaller wars in last two years. That is maybe key in their success.

I wasn't really attacking TOP, just querying the system. TOP remind me of my own clan in some ways. When I started TOFU I pulled in great players from CC and we were a strong group from Day 1 yet without a track record. We also had to play in Division 2 of the Clan League and everyone thought it was a bit daft and sure enough we won it with a record of something crazy like 92-6 (I can't remember to be honest, but it was a very lopsided total). When posting results such as this then of course it escalates a clan very quickly up the rankings, especially when there is no weighting.

[benga]

2017-12-28
Game 17835971
VDLL-OSA
13-28

[willedtowin1]

For the New Year.......
I would like to Thank IcePack for all of the time and energy he spends.
We in the Clan World couldn't ask for a Better Person.
Also include every one of the Clan Directors and IcePack Assistants .

You all Deserve our Gratitude from OSA............
Happy New Year
Willie

[IcePack]

Just finishing up this, you’ll find the update in Platoon Report approx mid month

[benga]

2018-01-06

FALL (17) vs OSA (24)

[Chariot of Fire]

For the New Year.......
I would like to Thank IcePack for all of the time and energy he spends.
We in the Clan World couldn't ask for a Better Person.
Also include every one of the Clan Directors and IcePack Assistants .

You all Deserve our Gratitude from OSA............
Happy New Year
Willie

Hear hear! Big thanks from all of us at TOFU and best wishes for 2018.

[IcePack]

Thanks everyone just an update we haven’t forgotten rankings, they are done we are just finishing the Platoon Report and everything will be released there. Lots of cool stuff about rankings and clan historical stuff you’ll want to check out there

I expect us to finish on or around the 15th. The CD team as a whole have all had touches of the cold / flu so we are just getting back into things now

[willedtowin1]

Thanks everyone just an update we haven’t forgotten rankings, they are done we are just finishing the Platoon Report and everything will be released there. Lots of cool stuff about rankings and clan historical stuff you’ll want to check out there

I expect us to finish on or around the 15th. The CD team as a whole have all had touches of the cold / flu so we are just getting back into things now

Please remember to update here too when possible Sir.
Thanks........
Willie

Ps.
I know you want people reading the Platoon Report.
But some of our peeps don't get that deep into the extra mumbo jumbo

[IcePack]

Thanks everyone just an update we haven’t forgotten rankings, they are done we are just finishing the Platoon Report and everything will be released there. Lots of cool stuff about rankings and clan historical stuff you’ll want to check out there

I expect us to finish on or around the 15th. The CD team as a whole have all had touches of the cold / flu so we are just getting back into things now

Please remember to update here too when possible Sir.
Thanks........
Willie

Ps.
I know you want people reading the Platoon Report.
But some of our peeps don't get that deep into the extra mumbo jumbo

No worries, I usually update here ~15 days after the platoon report goes out. Normally the platoon report is posted on the 1st or so, and this is updated on the 15th, but because Platoon Report went out on the 15th, this will be closer to the end of the month and that only happens on the "big updates", otherwise during the in between months its always here as soon as i update

That gives the platoon report about 2 weeks of "exclusive" rank coverage on the big updates.

Cheers,
IcePack

[IcePack]

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[IcePack]

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[Chariot of Fire]

That's looking a bit more realistic. Nice job mate, thank you.

[BGtheBrain]

N/A for best showing in a year should be a 10 spot punishment....

[IcePack]

Happy birthday to Farang, for without him there would be no F400.